Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:55 AM - Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon (cybersuperstore)
2. 11:28 AM - Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link (yourtcfg@aol.com)
3. 12:44 PM - Re: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link (cybersuperstore)
4. 04:47 PM - IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Philip Guziec)
5. 04:53 PM - More data on that IO 720 (Philip Guziec)
6. 05:33 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Brock Lorber)
7. 06:21 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Jack B. Mills)
8. 07:38 PM - Re: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon (Jack B. Mills)
9. 07:39 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Brock Lorber)
10. 07:49 PM - Re: More data on that IO 720 (Ray Mansfield)
11. 08:02 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Jack B. Mills)
12. 09:41 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Keith S. Gordon)
Message 1
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Subject: | Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon |
Folks,
The information for the flyin has been posted onto the website. Please check
it out and let me know if there are any errors, omissions or
recommendations.
Whether I'll be at the flying is still up in the air. It's time that I get
out to one of these things.
Thanks
Nico
Message 2
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Subject: | Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight |
Group Reservation Link
Hi Gang,
Here is a Reservation Link for the Twin Commander Flight Group. This is an
other option to make reservations, you can always call the hotel directly
@ 503-690-1800.
When calling the hotel, simply identify yourself with the Twin Commander
Flight Group, as well as provide your group code which is: TWI. In order
to guarantee rates and room availability, please reserve your room by Aug
ust 19th 2010. If anyone has any difficulties booking rooms, please contac
t Jenny Finn directly at 503-268-4414.
To reserve a room with a King-sized bed and a sleeper sofa, at the group
rate of $79 plus 10% rooming tax, please click the link below:
Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >>
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resv
link&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10
To reserve a room with two double-sized beds, at the group rate of $89 plu
s 10% rooming tax, please click the link below:
Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >>
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resv
link&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10
Message 3
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Subject: | Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight |
Group Reservation Link
Folks,
I added an additional page to the fly-in menu with the information below. I
edited it a little bit to fit the overall style of the website. Please check
my meddling and report if you see anything that I missed.
I followed the links in the email and besides the dates being prepopulated
in the Marriott's website, the rates do not reflect the group rate. Just so
you know.
Thanks
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander
Flight Group Reservation Link
Hi Gang,
Here is a Reservation Link for the Twin Commander Flight Group. This is
another option to make reservations, you can always call the hotel directly
@ 503-690-1800.
When calling the hotel, simply identify yourself with the Twin Commander
Flight Group, as well as provide your group code which is: TWI. In order to
guarantee rates and room availability, please reserve your room by August
19th 2010. If anyone has any difficulties booking rooms, please contact
Jenny Finn directly at 503-268-4414.
To reserve a room with a King-sized bed and a sleeper sofa, at the group
rate of $79 plus 10% rooming tax, please click the link below:
Courtyard Portland
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10> Hillsboro >>
Right-click here to download pictures. To help protect your privacy, Outlook
prevented automatic download of this picture from the Internet.
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10> &app=resvlink&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10
To reserve a room with two double-sized beds, at the group rate of $89 plus
10% rooming tax, please click the link below:
Courtyard Portland
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10> Hillsboro >>
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10>
http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib
<http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resvlink&
fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10> &app=resvlink&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10
Message 4
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Subject: | IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right engine, LYC
IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and there
was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which brought
cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is still
at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, staying at
high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering accumulator
was rebuilt.
The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil
pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any trend
data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and
concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know a few
commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
Thanks
Phil
'60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
Message 5
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Subject: | More data on that IO 720 |
Oil looks clean with no chips in the filters or screens. Just starting oil
analysis, so no data there.
Thanks again,
PHil
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
some point?
Brock
Philip Guziec wrote:
>
> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right engine,
LYC
> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and there
> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which brought
> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is still
> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, staying
at
> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering accumulator
> was rebuilt.
>
> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil
> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any trend
> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
>
> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and
> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know a few
> commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
>
> Thanks
> Phil
> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
Brock,
Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief spring.
Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C engines. This
can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35 PSI at hot idle,
as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil pressure adjusting
nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which was preventing the oil
relief piston from seating. When the engine was at above about 2,800 RPM
the oil supply was great enough to overcome this "leak hole" and everything
was ok, however at low RPM when the pump volume was low too much of the oil
was bypassing and the pump was not pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome
the leak and consiquently the oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had
suffered the same problem back in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster
and I just happened to remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because
it only takes about 15 minutes to fix and at no cost.
Regards,
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue
> <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
>
> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
>
> Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
> some point?
>
> Brock
>
> Philip Guziec wrote:
>> <philipguziec@yahoo.com>
>>
>> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right
>> engine, LYC
>> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and
>> there
>> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which
>> brought
>> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is
>> still
>> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops,
>> staying at
>> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering
>> accumulator
>> was rebuilt.
>>
>> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil
>> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any
>> trend
>> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
>>
>> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and
>> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know
>> a few
>> commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Phil
>> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon |
nico StationeryNICO,
THANKS FOR THE WORK.
SINCE I CAN'T MAKE IT THIS YEAR, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO MAKE AN APPERANCE
TO KEEP THE HEAD COUNT UP.
REGARDS,
MOE MILLS
N680rr
680Fp
From: cybersuperstore
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:53 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon
Folks,
The information for the flyin has been posted onto the website. Please
check it out and let me know if there are any errors, omissions or
recommendations.
Whether I'll be at the flying is still up in the air. It's time that I
get out to one of these things.
Thanks
Nico
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
Phil:
What Moe said.
Moe:
At this point in my life, the only panic I have about a commander is
that a client may underestimate the cost of TLC. :-)
Brock
Jack B. Mills wrote:
> <moe-rosspistons@hotmail.com>
>
> Brock,
>
> Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief
> spring. Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C
> engines. This can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35
> PSI at hot idle, as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil
> pressure adjusting nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which
> was preventing the oil relief piston from seating. When the engine was
> at above about 2,800 RPM the oil supply was great enough to overcome
> this "leak hole" and everything was ok, however at low RPM when the pump
> volume was low too much of the oil was bypassing and the pump was not
> pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome the leak and consiquently the
> oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had suffered the same problem back
> in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster and I just happened to
> remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because it only takes about
> 15 minutes to fix and at no cost.
>
> Regards,
> Moe Mills
> N680RR
> 680Fp
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM
> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue
>
>> <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
>>
>> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
>>
>> Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
>> some point?
>>
>> Brock
>>
>> Philip Guziec wrote:
>>> <philipguziec@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right
>>> engine, LYC
>>> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise,
>>> and there
>>> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which
>>> brought
>>> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle
>>> is still
>>> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops,
>>> staying at
>>> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering
>>> accumulator
>>> was rebuilt.
>>>
>>> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil
>>> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have
>>> any trend
>>> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
>>>
>>> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and
>>> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I
>>> know a few
>>> commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Phil
>>> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: More data on that IO 720 |
I flew a commander, 680FLP with the IO-720s for 1,100 hrs. Oil pressure on
both engines was always at the bottom of the green at idle and at cruise
after it warmed up. Never had the prop problem, however the plane I flew
didn't have a prop accumulator. You might look there, and since the
accumulator was just overhauled seems that's what might be the culprit.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Philip Guziec" <philipguziec@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:53 PM
<mooney-tech@aviating.com>
Subject: Commander-List: More data on that IO 720
> <philipguziec@yahoo.com>
>
> Oil looks clean with no chips in the filters or screens. Just starting
> oil
> analysis, so no data there.
>
> Thanks again,
> PHil
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
Brock,
Wait until you get old and are not IFR current, and talk to your insurance
company about an older pressurized Commander. Panic will set in.
Moe
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue
> <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
>
> Phil:
>
> What Moe said.
>
> Moe:
>
> At this point in my life, the only panic I have about a commander is
> that a client may underestimate the cost of TLC. :-)
>
> Brock
>
> Jack B. Mills wrote:
>> <moe-rosspistons@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Brock,
>>
>> Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief
>> spring. Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C
>> engines. This can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35
>> PSI at hot idle, as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil
>> pressure adjusting nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which
>> was preventing the oil relief piston from seating. When the engine was
>> at above about 2,800 RPM the oil supply was great enough to overcome
>> this "leak hole" and everything was ok, however at low RPM when the pump
>> volume was low too much of the oil was bypassing and the pump was not
>> pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome the leak and consiquently the
>> oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had suffered the same problem back
>> in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster and I just happened to
>> remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because it only takes about
>> 15 minutes to fix and at no cost.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Moe Mills
>> N680RR
>> 680Fp
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Brock Lorber" <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
>> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM
>> To: <commander-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue
>>
>>> <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
>>>
>>> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
>>>
>>> Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
>>> some point?
>>>
>>> Brock
>>>
>>> Philip Guziec wrote:
>>>> <philipguziec@yahoo.com>
>>>>
>>>> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right
>>>> engine, LYC
>>>> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise,
>>>> and there
>>>> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which
>>>> brought
>>>> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle
>>>> is still
>>>> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops,
>>>> staying at
>>>> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering
>>>> accumulator
>>>> was rebuilt.
>>>>
>>>> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the
>>>> oil
>>>> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have
>>>> any trend
>>>> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts
>>>> and
>>>> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I
>>>> know a few
>>>> commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Phil
>>>> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue |
Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
some point?
Brock
Brock,
While not quite comfortable with being called one of the older heads, I gu
ess I am because I've flown AC680-F series that had accumulators. They we
ren't very effective but they were there to help with restarting the IGSO-
540s.
By the way, I had about a 50/50 success rate with restarting those beasts
after a shut-down. The IGSO-540s were certainly not engines recommended
for multi-engine flight training. I think the accumulators provided a fa
lse sense of security -- or -- they worked really well 40 years ago and no
t since.
Moe, that was some great information on the oil pressure setting for the
IO-720 our T-Bone brother was asking about. Thanks for posting that.
The 680F series Commanders and the Beech Twin Bonanzas were direct competi
tors at the time. Both had similar power plants (Lyc. xGSO-540 and Simmon
ds fuel injectors) and interestingly, both went through an engine / airfra
me upgrade program: The Mr. RPM for the Commanders and the Excalibur for
the T-Bones. There's lots of cross-over for these types when it comes to
owning and operating them now.
Keith S. Gordon
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brock Lorber <blorber@southwestcirrus.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 5:27 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue
s.com>
Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator?
Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at
some point?
Brock
Philip Guziec wrote:
com>
>
> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right eng
ine,
LYC
> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, an
d
there
> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which bro
ught
> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is
still
> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, st
aying
at
> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering
accumulator
> was rebuilt.
>
> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil
> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any
trend
> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new.
>
> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and
> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I kno
w a
few
> commanders are fitted with IO 720s.
>
> Thanks
> Phil
> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur
>
>
>
>
>
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