---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/02/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:55 AM - Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon (cybersuperstore) 2. 11:28 AM - Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link (yourtcfg@aol.com) 3. 12:44 PM - Re: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link (cybersuperstore) 4. 04:47 PM - IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Philip Guziec) 5. 04:53 PM - More data on that IO 720 (Philip Guziec) 6. 05:33 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Brock Lorber) 7. 06:21 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Jack B. Mills) 8. 07:38 PM - Re: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon (Jack B. Mills) 9. 07:39 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Brock Lorber) 10. 07:49 PM - Re: More data on that IO 720 (Ray Mansfield) 11. 08:02 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Jack B. Mills) 12. 09:41 PM - Re: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue (Keith S. Gordon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:16 AM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: Commander-List: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon Folks, The information for the flyin has been posted onto the website. Please check it out and let me know if there are any errors, omissions or recommendations. Whether I'll be at the flying is still up in the air. It's time that I get out to one of these things. Thanks Nico ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:38 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link From: yourtcfg@aol.com Hi Gang, Here is a Reservation Link for the Twin Commander Flight Group. This is an other option to make reservations, you can always call the hotel directly @ 503-690-1800. When calling the hotel, simply identify yourself with the Twin Commander Flight Group, as well as provide your group code which is: TWI. In order to guarantee rates and room availability, please reserve your room by Aug ust 19th 2010. If anyone has any difficulties booking rooms, please contac t Jenny Finn directly at 503-268-4414. To reserve a room with a King-sized bed and a sleeper sofa, at the group rate of $79 plus 10% rooming tax, please click the link below: Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >> http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia&app=resv link&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10 To reserve a room with two double-sized beds, at the group rate of $89 plu s 10% rooming tax, please click the link below: Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >> http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib&app=resv link&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:07 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link Folks, I added an additional page to the fly-in menu with the information below. I edited it a little bit to fit the overall style of the website. Please check my meddling and report if you see anything that I missed. I followed the links in the email and besides the dates being prepopulated in the Marriott's website, the rates do not reflect the group rate. Just so you know. Thanks Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM Subject: Commander-List: Hillsboro Courtyard by Marriott - Twin Commander Flight Group Reservation Link Hi Gang, Here is a Reservation Link for the Twin Commander Flight Group. This is another option to make reservations, you can always call the hotel directly @ 503-690-1800. When calling the hotel, simply identify yourself with the Twin Commander Flight Group, as well as provide your group code which is: TWI. In order to guarantee rates and room availability, please reserve your room by August 19th 2010. If anyone has any difficulties booking rooms, please contact Jenny Finn directly at 503-268-4414. To reserve a room with a King-sized bed and a sleeper sofa, at the group rate of $79 plus 10% rooming tax, please click the link below: Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >> Right-click here to download pictures. To help protect your privacy, Outlook prevented automatic download of this picture from the Internet. http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwia &app=resvlink&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10 To reserve a room with two double-sized beds, at the group rate of $89 plus 10% rooming tax, please click the link below: Courtyard Portland Hillsboro >> http://www.marriott.com/hotels/travel/pdxhs?groupCode=twitwib &app=resvlink&fromDate=9/9/10&toDate=9/12/10 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:02 PM PST US From: Philip Guziec Subject: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right engine, LYC IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and there was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which brought cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is still at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, staying at high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering accumulator was rebuilt. The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any trend data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know a few commanders are fitted with IO 720s. Thanks Phil '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:54 PM PST US From: Philip Guziec Subject: Commander-List: More data on that IO 720 Oil looks clean with no chips in the filters or screens. Just starting oil analysis, so no data there. Thanks again, PHil ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:33:47 PM PST US From: Brock Lorber Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at some point? Brock Philip Guziec wrote: > > I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right engine, LYC > IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and there > was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which brought > cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is still > at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, staying at > high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering accumulator > was rebuilt. > > The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil > pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any trend > data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. > > Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and > concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know a few > commanders are fitted with IO 720s. > > Thanks > Phil > '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:17 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Mills" Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue Brock, Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief spring. Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C engines. This can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35 PSI at hot idle, as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil pressure adjusting nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which was preventing the oil relief piston from seating. When the engine was at above about 2,800 RPM the oil supply was great enough to overcome this "leak hole" and everything was ok, however at low RPM when the pump volume was low too much of the oil was bypassing and the pump was not pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome the leak and consiquently the oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had suffered the same problem back in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster and I just happened to remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because it only takes about 15 minutes to fix and at no cost. Regards, Moe Mills N680RR 680Fp -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Lorber" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue > > > Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? > > Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at > some point? > > Brock > > Philip Guziec wrote: >> >> >> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right >> engine, LYC >> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, and >> there >> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which >> brought >> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is >> still >> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, >> staying at >> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering >> accumulator >> was rebuilt. >> >> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil >> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any >> trend >> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. >> >> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and >> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I know >> a few >> commanders are fitted with IO 720s. >> >> Thanks >> Phil >> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:08 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Mills" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon nico StationeryNICO, THANKS FOR THE WORK. SINCE I CAN'T MAKE IT THIS YEAR, YOU ARE EXPECTED TO MAKE AN APPERANCE TO KEEP THE HEAD COUNT UP. REGARDS, MOE MILLS N680rr 680Fp From: cybersuperstore Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 8:53 AM Subject: Commander-List: Flyin Hillsboro, Oregon Folks, The information for the flyin has been posted onto the website. Please check it out and let me know if there are any errors, omissions or recommendations. Whether I'll be at the flying is still up in the air. It's time that I get out to one of these things. Thanks Nico ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:44 PM PST US From: Brock Lorber Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue Phil: What Moe said. Moe: At this point in my life, the only panic I have about a commander is that a client may underestimate the cost of TLC. :-) Brock Jack B. Mills wrote: > > > Brock, > > Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief > spring. Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C > engines. This can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35 > PSI at hot idle, as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil > pressure adjusting nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which > was preventing the oil relief piston from seating. When the engine was > at above about 2,800 RPM the oil supply was great enough to overcome > this "leak hole" and everything was ok, however at low RPM when the pump > volume was low too much of the oil was bypassing and the pump was not > pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome the leak and consiquently the > oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had suffered the same problem back > in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster and I just happened to > remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because it only takes about > 15 minutes to fix and at no cost. > > Regards, > Moe Mills > N680RR > 680Fp > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brock Lorber" > Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM > To: > Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue > >> >> >> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? >> >> Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at >> some point? >> >> Brock >> >> Philip Guziec wrote: >>> >>> >>> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right >>> engine, LYC >>> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, >>> and there >>> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which >>> brought >>> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle >>> is still >>> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, >>> staying at >>> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering >>> accumulator >>> was rebuilt. >>> >>> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil >>> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have >>> any trend >>> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. >>> >>> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and >>> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I >>> know a few >>> commanders are fitted with IO 720s. >>> >>> Thanks >>> Phil >>> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:08 PM PST US From: "Ray Mansfield" Subject: Re: Commander-List: More data on that IO 720 I flew a commander, 680FLP with the IO-720s for 1,100 hrs. Oil pressure on both engines was always at the bottom of the green at idle and at cruise after it warmed up. Never had the prop problem, however the plane I flew didn't have a prop accumulator. You might look there, and since the accumulator was just overhauled seems that's what might be the culprit. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Philip Guziec" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 6:53 PM Subject: Commander-List: More data on that IO 720 > > > Oil looks clean with no chips in the filters or screens. Just starting > oil > analysis, so no data there. > > Thanks again, > PHil > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:07 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Mills" Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue Brock, Wait until you get old and are not IFR current, and talk to your insurance company about an older pressurized Commander. Panic will set in. Moe -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brock Lorber" Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue > > > Phil: > > What Moe said. > > Moe: > > At this point in my life, the only panic I have about a commander is > that a client may underestimate the cost of TLC. :-) > > Brock > > Jack B. Mills wrote: >> >> >> Brock, >> >> Before you panic check the seat and plunger behind the oil relief >> spring. Some time ago I had the same problem with one of my IGS540B1C >> engines. This can be a real problem when the oil pressure goes below 35 >> PSI at hot idle, as the injector goes full rich. After removing the oil >> pressure adjusting nut, spring and piston there was a small piece which >> was preventing the oil relief piston from seating. When the engine was >> at above about 2,800 RPM the oil supply was great enough to overcome >> this "leak hole" and everything was ok, however at low RPM when the pump >> volume was low too much of the oil was bypassing and the pump was not >> pumping enough hot thin oil to overcome the leak and consiquently the >> oil pressure was low. Fortunately, I had suffered the same problem back >> in the '80s with my Chrysler powered dragster and I just happened to >> remember it. Hopefully this is the problem because it only takes about >> 15 minutes to fix and at no cost. >> >> Regards, >> Moe Mills >> N680RR >> 680Fp >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Brock Lorber" >> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 5:27 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue >> >>> >>> >>> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? >>> >>> Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at >>> some point? >>> >>> Brock >>> >>> Philip Guziec wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right >>>> engine, LYC >>>> IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, >>>> and there >>>> was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which >>>> brought >>>> cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle >>>> is still >>>> at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, >>>> staying at >>>> high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering >>>> accumulator >>>> was rebuilt. >>>> >>>> The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the >>>> oil >>>> pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have >>>> any trend >>>> data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. >>>> >>>> Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts >>>> and >>>> concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I >>>> know a few >>>> commanders are fitted with IO 720s. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> Phil >>>> '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue From: "Keith S. Gordon" Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at some point? Brock Brock, While not quite comfortable with being called one of the older heads, I gu ess I am because I've flown AC680-F series that had accumulators. They we ren't very effective but they were there to help with restarting the IGSO- 540s. By the way, I had about a 50/50 success rate with restarting those beasts after a shut-down. The IGSO-540s were certainly not engines recommended for multi-engine flight training. I think the accumulators provided a fa lse sense of security -- or -- they worked really well 40 years ago and no t since. Moe, that was some great information on the oil pressure setting for the IO-720 our T-Bone brother was asking about. Thanks for posting that. The 680F series Commanders and the Beech Twin Bonanzas were direct competi tors at the time. Both had similar power plants (Lyc. xGSO-540 and Simmon ds fuel injectors) and interestingly, both went through an engine / airfra me upgrade program: The Mr. RPM for the Commanders and the Excalibur for the T-Bones. There's lots of cross-over for these types when it comes to owning and operating them now. Keith S. Gordon Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. -----Original Message----- From: Brock Lorber Sent: Mon, Aug 2, 2010 5:27 pm Subject: Re: Commander-List: IO 720 Governor/Oil Pressure Issue s.com> Completely off-topic, but why does a T-Bone need an accumulator? Maybe a question for the older heads? Were they used for training at some point? Brock Philip Guziec wrote: com> > > I've got an issue with my prop governor and oil pressure on my right eng ine, LYC > IO 720. The oil pressure was at the low end of the range in cruise, an d there > was no more adjustment available, so a new spring was fitted, which bro ught > cruise oil pressure up to match the left engine in mid-range but idle is still > at the bottom of the range. The prop also won't come off the stops, st aying at > high RPM. The only change during annual was that the unfeathering accumulator > was rebuilt. > > The governor is going out for a test and potential overhaul, but the oil > pressure has me concerned. The plane is new to me, so I don't have any trend > data on the oil pressure. The governor problem, however, is new. > > Anyone familiar with common Lyc failure modes? I have some thoughts and > concerns, but thought I'd get a fresh set of eyes on the problem. I kno w a few > commanders are fitted with IO 720s. > > Thanks > Phil > '60 Twin Bonanza Excalibur > > > > > ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.