Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:56 PM - Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman)
2. 05:26 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Tylor Hall)
3. 05:53 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman)
4. 06:25 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Tylor Hall)
5. 06:52 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman)
6. 09:49 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (craig kennedy)
7. 10:14 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (cybersuperstore)
8. 10:29 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Victor C. Rupert)
9. 10:49 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Andrew & Bridget Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - |
Jacksonville News Stor...
----- Original Message -----
From: scott<mailto:sboyn@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Stor...
From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com<mailto:MidSouthSailingH@aol.com>
Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com<mailto:MonicaBobb24@aol.com>
Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Story - W
Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT
Jacksonville<http://www.news4jax.com/news/24925931/detail.html>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good
thing.
Too bad you can't use the plane again.
That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around
the other quits?
I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: scott
> To: lloyd silverman
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville
News Stor...
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com
>> Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
>> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com
>> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News
Story - W
>>
>>
>> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF
PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON
BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES
OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN
FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO
ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION.
THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN'T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL
YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall<mailto:tylorhall@mac.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is
a good thing.
Too bad you can't use the plane again.
That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it
turned around the other quits?
I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: scott<mailto:sboyn@frontiernet.net>
To: lloyd silverman<mailto:lloydsss11@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Stor...
From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com<mailto:MidSouthSailingH@aol.com>
Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com<mailto:MonicaBobb24@aol.com>
Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Story - W
Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story -
WJXT Jacksonville<http://www.news4jax.com/news/24925931/detail.html>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
LLoyd,
It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.
I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told
her to go get the jet truck.
I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to
fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem.
It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck
Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.
With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get
mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.
Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and
both engines quit.
I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The
delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out
when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.
We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced
manifold pressures.
That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the
end of runway lights and did a missed.
Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
> TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT
OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON
BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES
OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN
FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO
ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION.
THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=92T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL
YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tylor Hall
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
>
> Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is
a good thing.
> Too bad you can't use the plane again.
> That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
> Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it
turned around the other quits?
> I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
>
> Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: scott
>> To: lloyd silverman
>> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
>> Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Stor...
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com
>>> Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
>>> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com
>>> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Story - W
>>>
>>>
>>> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story -
WJXT Jacksonville
>>
>>
>>
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=92T QUIT AND IM
STILL HERE.
BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY
REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO
COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall<mailto:tylorhall@mac.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
LLoyd,
It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.
I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told
her to go get the jet truck.
I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to
fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem.
It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that
Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.
With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get
mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.
Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and
both engines quit.
I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The
delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out
when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.
We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced
manifold pressures.
That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw
the end of runway lights and did a missed.
Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT
OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON
BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES
OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN
FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO
ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION.
THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=92T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL
YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall<mailto:tylorhall@mac.com>
To:
commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines
quit is a good thing.
Too bad you can't use the plane again.
That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you
have it turned around the other quits?
I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: scott<mailto:sboyn@frontiernet.net>
To: lloyd silverman<mailto:lloydsss11@msn.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Stor...
From:
MidSouthSailingH@aol.com<mailto:MidSouthSailingH@aol.com>
Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com<mailto:MonicaBobb24@aol.com>
Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Story - W
Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News
Story - WJXT
Jacksonville<http://www.news4jax.com/news/24925931/detail.html>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List<http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C
ommander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com<http://forums.matronics.com/>">http:/
/forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/co
ntribution>">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailing
heavy =0Aback smoke... Fuel your own plane.=0A=0ACraig=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____
___________________________=0AFrom: lloyd silverman <LLOYDSSS11@MSN.COM>=0A
=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane
On =0AI-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...=0A=0A =0ATYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL L
OAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE.=0ABY THE WAY
THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY =0AREPLACED
IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER. IT
=0ACOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Tyl
or Hall =0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Friday, September 10
, 2010 9:22 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report:
Co-Pilot Landed Plane On =0A>I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...=0A>=0A>LLoyd,
=0A>It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.=0A>I stopped a new line gir
l from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to =0A>go get the jet
truck.=0A>I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the lin
e to fuel the =0A>aircraft or there will be a problem.=0A>It is amazing
to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill =0A>Jet n
ozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.=0A>=0A>=0A>With a Commander
and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the =0A>Jet A
being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.=0A>Then each engine gets almos
t pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both =0A>engines quit.=0A>=0A
>=0A>I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. T
he =0A>delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed
out when he =0A>hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.=0A>We had th
e same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold =0A
>pressures.=0A>That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and o
nly saw the end =0A>of runway lights and did a missed.=0A>Flew about 5 m
iles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.=0A>Tylor Hall=0A>=0A>
=0A>On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:=0A>=0A>TYLOR, ABOUT
10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF =0A>PORTLA
ND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON =0A>BOARD.T
HERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF
=0A>BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FL
IGHT I =0A>EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT
40 % POWER =0A>WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION.
THE 80% 100 OCT IS =0A>WHY WE DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATC
H THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD=0A>>----- Original Message -----=0A>>
>From: Tylor Hall=0A>>>To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A>>>Sent: Friday,
September 10, 2010 8:16 PM=0A>>>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Che
ck out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane =0A>>>On I-10 - Jacksonville Ne
ws Stor...=0A>>>=0A>>>Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after bot
h engines quit is a =0A>>>good thing. =0A>>>=0A>>>Too bad you can't
use the plane again.=0A>>>That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.=0A>>
>Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have
it =0A>>>turned around the other quits?=0A>>>I would be checking who fuele
d it last and with what?=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Another Commander gives up its li
fe to save its passengers.=0A>>>Tylor Hall=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Sep 10, 2010
, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>>----- Original Mess
age ----- =0A>>>>From: scott=0A>>>>To: lloyd silverman=0A
>>>>Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM=0A>>>>Subject: Fwd:
Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - =0A>>>>Jacksonvi
lle News Stor...=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>> =0A>>>>>=0A>
>>>>=0A>>>>>From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com=0A>>>>>Date: September 9, 2010
3:51:31 PM EDT=0A>>>>>To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com=0A>>>>>Subject: Ch
eck out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - =0A>>>>>Jacksonv
ille News Story - W=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Report:
Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - =0A>>>>>WJX
T Jacksonville=0A>>>>=0A>>>> =0A>>>>href="http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commande
r-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>>
>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution=0A>>>>n =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>> =0A>>href="http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Com
mander-List=0A>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni
cs.com =0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro
===== =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
We should have been at the fly-in. But, I guess we are keeping the home
fires burning while the others are holding the Group's flag high in
Hillsboro.
I wrote about this a while ago, but I had my 500's tanks filled with Jet
fuel when I wasn't looking. I had to rush into town in a smaller city
because I was already latish, and it was taken care of by the FBO. What I
didn't know (and it wouldn't have changed the outcome either) was that
turbine Commanders were flying in and out of this airport at night doing
freight runs. So, the linesman did what he was used to and filled her up
with avtur. I don't know how the nozzles business worked for the poor guy,
but when I got back and was handed the bill for the fuel, it was about 100
bucks less than I expected. If I had been a greedy guy, I might have taken
off thinking I got a bargain, but I complained. That's when they checked the
receipt and verified that the amount was correct and that's what avtur
costs.
So, the FBO drained the contaminated fuel, filled the tanks with avgas, let
it sit for a weekend, drained it again and filled it one more time with
fresh gas. Then he took samples of the fuel and sent them to the oil company
for verification that the fuel is clean. It took more than a week before I
got back to my Charlie and took her home. The FBO picked up the tab and paid
for my commercial flight tickets to boot. All I had to pay was for the
difference between avtur and avgas.
The local DCA (the equivalent of the FAA in South Africa back then) sent me
a letter of reprimand because I didn't supervise my refueling operation
personally.
I firmly believe that I would have crashed on that short runway when the
engines would have quit as I hung a couple of hundred feet above the
neighborhood.
It pays not to be greedy.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig
kennedy
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On
I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailing
heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane.
Craig
_____
From: lloyd silverman <LLOYDSSS11@MSN.COM>
Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 6:51:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On
I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN'T QUIT AND IM STILL
HERE.
BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY
REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO
COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylorhall@mac.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On
I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
LLoyd,
It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.
I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her
to go get the jet truck.
I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel
the aircraft or there will be a problem.
It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill
Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.
With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing,
the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.
Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both
engines quit.
I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The
delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when
he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.
We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced
manifold pressures.
That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the end
of runway lights and did a missed.
Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF
PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE
IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD
COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I
EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER
WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY
WE DIDN'T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall <mailto:tylorhall@mac.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On
I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a
good thing.
Too bad you can't use the plane again.
That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it
turned around the other quits?
I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: scott <mailto:sboyn@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville
News Stor...
From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com
Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News
Story - W
Report: Co-Pilot <http://www.news4jax.com/news/24925931/detail.html> Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
Amen!
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 11=2C 2010=2C at 12:09 AM=2C "cybersuperstore" <nico@cybersuperstore
.com> wrote:
> We should have been at the fly-in. But=2C I guess we are keeping the home
fires burning while the others are holding the Group's flag high in Hillsb
oro.
>
> I wrote about this a while ago=2C but I had my 500's tanks filled with Je
t fuel when I wasn't looking. I had to rush into town in a smaller city bec
ause I was already latish=2C and it was taken care of by the FBO. What I di
dn't know (and it wouldn't have changed the outcome either) was that turbin
e Commanders were flying in and out of this airport at night doing freight
runs. So=2C the linesman did what he was used to and filled her up with avt
ur. I don't know how the nozzles business worked for the poor guy=2C but wh
en I got back and was handed the bill for the fuel=2C it was about 100 buck
s less than I expected. If I had been a greedy guy=2C I might have taken of
f thinking I got a bargain=2C but I complained. That's when they checked th
e receipt and verified that the amount was correct and that's what avtur co
sts.
>
> So=2C the FBO drained the contaminated fuel=2C filled the tanks with avga
s=2C let it sit for a weekend=2C drained it again and filled it one more ti
me with fresh gas. Then he took samples of the fuel and sent them to the oi
l company for verification that the fuel is clean. It took more than a week
before I got back to my Charlie and took her home. The FBO picked up the t
ab and paid for my commercial flight tickets to boot. All I had to pay was
for the difference between avtur and avgas.
>
> The local DCA (the equivalent of the FAA in South Africa back then) sent
me a letter of reprimand because I didn't supervise my refueling operation
personally.
>
> I firmly believe that I would have crashed on that short runway when the
engines would have quit as I hung a couple of hundred feet above the neighb
orhood.
>
> It pays not to be greedy.
>
> Nico
>
>
>
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-l
ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy
> Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 9:40 PM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane
On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
>
> Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailin
g heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane.
>
> Craig
>
> From: lloyd silverman <LLOYDSSS11@MSN.COM>
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Fri=2C September 10=2C 2010 6:51:08 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane
On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
>
> TYLOR=2C I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND
IM STILL HERE.
> BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY R
EPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER
. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tylor Hall
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 9:22 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane
On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
>
> LLoyd=2C
> It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.
> I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told he
r to go get the jet truck.
> I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel
the aircraft or there will be a problem.
> It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck B
ill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.
>
> With a Commander and the single main fuel tank=2C if you do not get mixin
g=2C the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.
> Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and bot
h engines quit.
>
> I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The del
ivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he
hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.
> We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced mani
fold pressures.
> That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the e
nd of runway lights and did a missed.
> Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Sep 10=2C 2010=2C at 6:52 PM=2C lloyd silverman wrote:
>
>
> TYLOR=2C ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT=2C OUT
OF PORTLAND MAINE=2C I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD
.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD
COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERI
ENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH
COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE
DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tylor Hall
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 8:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane
On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
>
> Wow=2C getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is
a good thing.
> Too bad you can't use the plane again.
> That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
> Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it tu
rned around the other quits?
> I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
>
> Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
> Tylor Hall
>
> On Sep 10=2C 2010=2C at 5:54 PM=2C lloyd silverman wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: scott
> To: lloyd silverman
> Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 10:57 AM
> Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonvi
lle News Stor...
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com
>> Date: September 9=2C 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
>> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com
>> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville
News Story - W
>>
>>
>> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT J
acksonville
>
>
>
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt
p://forums.matronics.com
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ontribution
>
>
>
>
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ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 |
- Jacksonville News Stor...
I read about Mr Hoover's Jet fuel experience in his book...what amazed
me was he sought out the line-boy (just a teenager) and told him that in
the future he wanted him, and him only to fuel his aircraft. Gave the
kid back some pride, and for sure that young man wasn't going to mess up
again. Bob Hoover is not only an excellent pilot, but also a true
gentleman.
Andrew.
----- Original Message -----
From: craig kennedy
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off
trailing heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane.
Craig
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: lloyd silverman <LLOYDSSS11@MSN.COM>
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 6:51:08 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND
IM STILL HERE.
BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY
TEMPORARILY REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED
ATURBO COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed
Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
LLoyd,
It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.
I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and
told her to go get the jet truck.
I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to
fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem.
It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that
Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.
With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get
mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.
Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground
and both engines quit.
I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel.
The delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed
out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.
We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced
manifold pressures.
That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw
the end of runway lights and did a missed.
Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT,
OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON
BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES
OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN
FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO
ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION.
THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM
FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD
----- Original Message -----
From: Tylor Hall
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot
Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...
Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines
quit is a good thing.
Too bad you can't use the plane again.
That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.
Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you
have it turned around the other quits?
I would be checking who fueled it last and with what?
Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers.
Tylor Hall
On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: scott
To: lloyd silverman
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10
- Jacksonville News Stor...
From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com
Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT
To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com
Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 -
Jacksonville News Story - W
Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News
Story - WJXT Jacksonville
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