---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/10/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:56 PM - Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman) 2. 05:26 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Tylor Hall) 3. 05:53 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman) 4. 06:25 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Tylor Hall) 5. 06:52 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (lloyd silverman) 6. 09:49 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (craig kennedy) 7. 10:14 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (cybersuperstore) 8. 10:29 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Victor C. Rupert) 9. 10:49 PM - Re: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... (Andrew & Bridget Watson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:33 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... ----- Original Message ----- From: scott Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:41 PM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. Too bad you can't use the plane again. That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: scott > To: lloyd silverman > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > >> >> >> >> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com >> Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT >> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com >> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W >> >> >> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:54 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN'T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. Too bad you can't use the plane again. That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: scott To: lloyd silverman Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:27 PM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... LLoyd, It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S. I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to go get the jet truck. I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem. It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it. With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump. Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both engines quit. I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet. We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold pressures. That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the end of runway lights and did a missed. Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: > TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=92T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tylor Hall > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. > Too bad you can't use the plane again. > That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. > Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? > I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? > > Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. > Tylor Hall > > On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: scott >> To: lloyd silverman >> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM >> Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... >> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com >>> Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT >>> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com >>> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W >>> >>> >>> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co ntribution >> >> > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:43 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=92T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE. BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... LLoyd, It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S. I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to go get the jet truck. I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem. It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it. With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump. Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both engines quit. I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet. We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold pressures. That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the end of runway lights and did a missed. Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=92T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. Too bad you can't use the plane again. That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: scott To: lloyd silverman Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?C ommander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http:/ /forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:33 PM PST US From: craig kennedy Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailing heavy =0Aback smoke... Fuel your own plane.=0A=0ACraig=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0AFrom: lloyd silverman =0A =0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On =0AI-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...=0A=0A =0ATYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL L OAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE.=0ABY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY =0AREPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER. IT =0ACOULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD=0A----- Original Message ----- =0A>From: Tyl or Hall =0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com =0A>Sent: Friday, September 10 , 2010 9:22 PM=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On =0A>I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor...=0A>=0A>LLoyd, =0A>It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S.=0A>I stopped a new line gir l from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to =0A>go get the jet truck.=0A>I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the lin e to fuel the =0A>aircraft or there will be a problem.=0A>It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill =0A>Jet n ozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it.=0A>=0A>=0A>With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the =0A>Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump.=0A>Then each engine gets almos t pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both =0A>engines quit.=0A>=0A >=0A>I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. T he =0A>delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he =0A>hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet.=0A>We had th e same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold =0A >pressures.=0A>That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and o nly saw the end =0A>of runway lights and did a missed.=0A>Flew about 5 m iles west to another airport and broke out at 700'.=0A>Tylor Hall=0A>=0A> =0A>On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:=0A>=0A>TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF =0A>PORTLA ND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON =0A>BOARD.T HERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF =0A>BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FL IGHT I =0A>EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER =0A>WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS =0A>WHY WE DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATC H THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD=0A>>----- Original Message -----=0A>> >From: Tylor Hall=0A>>>To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A>>>Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM=0A>>>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Che ck out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane =0A>>>On I-10 - Jacksonville Ne ws Stor...=0A>>>=0A>>>Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after bot h engines quit is a =0A>>>good thing. =0A>>>=0A>>>Too bad you can't use the plane again.=0A>>>That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A.=0A>> >Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it =0A>>>turned around the other quits?=0A>>>I would be checking who fuele d it last and with what?=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>Another Commander gives up its li fe to save its passengers.=0A>>>Tylor Hall=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>On Sep 10, 2010 , at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> =0A>>>>----- Original Mess age ----- =0A>>>>From: scott=0A>>>>To: lloyd silverman=0A >>>>Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM=0A>>>>Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - =0A>>>>Jacksonvi lle News Stor...=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>> =0A>>>>>=0A> >>>>=0A>>>>>From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com=0A>>>>>Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT=0A>>>>>To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com=0A>>>>>Subject: Ch eck out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - =0A>>>>>Jacksonv ille News Story - W=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - =0A>>>>>WJX T Jacksonville=0A>>>>=0A>>>> =0A>>>>href="http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commande r-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A>> >>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution=0A>>>>n =0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>> =0A>>href="http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Com mander-List=0A>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matroni cs.com =0A>>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matro ===== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:28 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... We should have been at the fly-in. But, I guess we are keeping the home fires burning while the others are holding the Group's flag high in Hillsboro. I wrote about this a while ago, but I had my 500's tanks filled with Jet fuel when I wasn't looking. I had to rush into town in a smaller city because I was already latish, and it was taken care of by the FBO. What I didn't know (and it wouldn't have changed the outcome either) was that turbine Commanders were flying in and out of this airport at night doing freight runs. So, the linesman did what he was used to and filled her up with avtur. I don't know how the nozzles business worked for the poor guy, but when I got back and was handed the bill for the fuel, it was about 100 bucks less than I expected. If I had been a greedy guy, I might have taken off thinking I got a bargain, but I complained. That's when they checked the receipt and verified that the amount was correct and that's what avtur costs. So, the FBO drained the contaminated fuel, filled the tanks with avgas, let it sit for a weekend, drained it again and filled it one more time with fresh gas. Then he took samples of the fuel and sent them to the oil company for verification that the fuel is clean. It took more than a week before I got back to my Charlie and took her home. The FBO picked up the tab and paid for my commercial flight tickets to boot. All I had to pay was for the difference between avtur and avgas. The local DCA (the equivalent of the FAA in South Africa back then) sent me a letter of reprimand because I didn't supervise my refueling operation personally. I firmly believe that I would have crashed on that short runway when the engines would have quit as I hung a couple of hundred feet above the neighborhood. It pays not to be greedy. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailing heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane. Craig _____ From: lloyd silverman Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 6:51:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN'T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE. BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... LLoyd, It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S. I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to go get the jet truck. I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem. It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it. With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump. Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both engines quit. I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet. We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold pressures. That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the end of runway lights and did a missed. Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN'T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. Too bad you can't use the plane again. That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: scott Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matro nics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com ">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.c================= ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:29:27 PM PST US From: "Victor C. Rupert" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Amen! Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11=2C 2010=2C at 12:09 AM=2C "cybersuperstore" wrote: > We should have been at the fly-in. But=2C I guess we are keeping the home fires burning while the others are holding the Group's flag high in Hillsb oro. > > I wrote about this a while ago=2C but I had my 500's tanks filled with Je t fuel when I wasn't looking. I had to rush into town in a smaller city bec ause I was already latish=2C and it was taken care of by the FBO. What I di dn't know (and it wouldn't have changed the outcome either) was that turbin e Commanders were flying in and out of this airport at night doing freight runs. So=2C the linesman did what he was used to and filled her up with avt ur. I don't know how the nozzles business worked for the poor guy=2C but wh en I got back and was handed the bill for the fuel=2C it was about 100 buck s less than I expected. If I had been a greedy guy=2C I might have taken of f thinking I got a bargain=2C but I complained. That's when they checked th e receipt and verified that the amount was correct and that's what avtur co sts. > > So=2C the FBO drained the contaminated fuel=2C filled the tanks with avga s=2C let it sit for a weekend=2C drained it again and filled it one more ti me with fresh gas. Then he took samples of the fuel and sent them to the oi l company for verification that the fuel is clean. It took more than a week before I got back to my Charlie and took her home. The FBO picked up the t ab and paid for my commercial flight tickets to boot. All I had to pay was for the difference between avtur and avgas. > > The local DCA (the equivalent of the FAA in South Africa back then) sent me a letter of reprimand because I didn't supervise my refueling operation personally. > > I firmly believe that I would have crashed on that short runway when the engines would have quit as I hung a couple of hundred feet above the neighb orhood. > > It pays not to be greedy. > > Nico > > > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-l ist-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy > Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 9:40 PM > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailin g heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane. > > Craig > > From: lloyd silverman > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Fri=2C September 10=2C 2010 6:51:08 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > TYLOR=2C I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE. > BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY R EPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER . IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tylor Hall > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > LLoyd=2C > It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S. > I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told he r to go get the jet truck. > I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem. > It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck B ill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it. > > With a Commander and the single main fuel tank=2C if you do not get mixin g=2C the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump. > Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and bot h engines quit. > > I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The del ivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet. > We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced mani fold pressures. > That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the e nd of runway lights and did a missed. > Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'. > Tylor Hall > > On Sep 10=2C 2010=2C at 6:52 PM=2C lloyd silverman wrote: > > > TYLOR=2C ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT=2C OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE=2C I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD .THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERI ENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tylor Hall > To: commander-list@matronics.com > Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 8:16 PM > Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... > > Wow=2C getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. > Too bad you can't use the plane again. > That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. > Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it tu rned around the other quits? > I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? > > Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. > Tylor Hall > > On Sep 10=2C 2010=2C at 5:54 PM=2C lloyd silverman wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: scott > To: lloyd silverman > Sent: Friday=2C September 10=2C 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonvi lle News Stor... > > >> >> >> >> From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com >> Date: September 9=2C 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT >> To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com >> Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W >> >> >> Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT J acksonville > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">htt p://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution > > > > http://www.matronics.c================= > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:49:22 PM PST US From: "Andrew & Bridget Watson" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... I read about Mr Hoover's Jet fuel experience in his book...what amazed me was he sought out the line-boy (just a teenager) and told him that in the future he wanted him, and him only to fuel his aircraft. Gave the kid back some pride, and for sure that young man wasn't going to mess up again. Bob Hoover is not only an excellent pilot, but also a true gentleman. Andrew. ----- Original Message ----- From: craig kennedy To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Bob Hoover was refueled with Jet-A. I watched while he took off trailing heavy back smoke... Fuel your own plane. Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: lloyd silverman To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Fri, September 10, 2010 6:51:08 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... TYLOR, I GUESS MY FUEL LOAD MIXED. THE ENGINES DIDN=99T QUIT AND IM STILL HERE. BY THE WAY THE NOZZLE ON THE JETA TRUCK HAD JAMMED AND THEY TEMPORARILY REPLACED IT WITH A 100 OCT NOZZLE. LINE BOY HAD JUST FUELED ATURBO COMMANDER. IT COULD HAVE BEEN WORSE.LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... LLoyd, It happened to Bob Hover once in his 500S. I stopped a new line girl from fueling a 690B with AVGAS once and told her to go get the jet truck. I had a 500 B for a year and you are right. Never leave the line to fuel the aircraft or there will be a problem. It is amazing to what lengths Line men will go to try and get that Duck Bill Jet nozzle in the fill port with a small hole in it. With a Commander and the single main fuel tank, if you do not get mixing, the Jet A being heavier will go to to the bottom sump. Then each engine gets almost pure jet A about 200' off the ground and both engines quit. I was flying a Bonanza that was fueled with a bad batch of fuel. The delivery truck had hauled a load of Jet A and did not get flushed out when he hauled AVGAS. The samples came out 4-8% Jet. We had the same high temperatures even with full mixture and reduced manifold pressures. That was the night we made an IFR approach to minimums and only saw the end of runway lights and did a missed. Flew about 5 miles west to another airport and broke out at 700'. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 6:52 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: TYLOR, ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO ON A RAINING LOW VISIBILITY IFR NIGHT, OUT OF PORTLAND MAINE, I ASKED AN FBO TO ADD 25 GALS TO THE 90 GALS ON BOARD.THERE IS A RESTRICTOR AT THE FUEL INTAKE OF MY 500B. THRU A SERIES OF BAD COINCIDENTAL MISTAKES THEY PUT IN 25 GALS OF JET FUEL. IN FLIGHT I EXPERIENCED HI ENGINE HEAT AND POOR PERFORMANCE. SLOWED TO ABOUT 40 % POWER WITH COWL FLAPS FULL OPEN AND MADE IT TO DESTINATION. THE 80% 100 OCT IS WHY WE DIDN=99T COME DOWN.... ALWAYS WATCH THEM FUEL YOUR AIRCRAFT. LLOYD ----- Original Message ----- From: Tylor Hall To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:16 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Fw: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... Wow, getting on the ground and walking away after both engines quit is a good thing. Too bad you can't use the plane again. That sounds like a miss fueling with Jet A. Shortly after take off one engine quits and about the time you have it turned around the other quits? I would be checking who fueled it last and with what? Another Commander gives up its life to save its passengers. Tylor Hall On Sep 10, 2010, at 5:54 PM, lloyd silverman wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: scott To: lloyd silverman Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Fwd: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Stor... From: MidSouthSailingH@aol.com Date: September 9, 2010 3:51:31 PM EDT To: MonicaBobb24@aol.com Subject: Check out Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - W Report: Co-Pilot Landed Plane On I-10 - Jacksonville News Story - WJXT Jacksonville href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution http://www.matronics.c================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.