---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/07/10: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: Commander photo / video (Barry Collman) 2. 05:25 AM - Re: Commander photo / video (sr14572@yahoo.com) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: Commander photo / video (BobsV35B@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:05 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Hi JimBob, Super sleuth! Looks like I=99ll have to get hold of a copy of that book. Grateful thanks for your help. Very Best Regards, Barry From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: 07 December 2010 04:27 Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col.Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707). There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Good Morning Keith, We lost Dick in 2008. Miss him too. And: ---- I like both machines! Flew them a lot back in the fifties and sixties. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:24:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, cloudcraft@aol.com writes: It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met. Old Bob, Sometimes bad news travels slowly. I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone West. In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and I spoke many times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero Commander -- had in common. At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the engine, prop, parts and service providers our fleet numbers. We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jousting with him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the T-Bone. Best to you -- and thank you for dropping in with your wit and wisdom every now and then. Keith S. Gordon aka Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 6:11 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Good Morning Barry, While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea is accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt very much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chances are it was a routine Army airplane. As I said before, I heard the story from Army pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a whole passel of T-Bones! When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to eliminate the climb up those original "steps on a stick". Beech even redesigned the access to the D50 because of it, but the damage was done. It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met. I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly in one every now and then. It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so. I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If anyone would have done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would have been Rusty. The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am familiar were the Connie he used as General Of The Armies and the Columbine he used as President. I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute between his home at Gettysburg and Teterboro when he was President of Columbia University, but have never found any proof of his ownership. It is quite possible that the Bonanza was a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very short time. We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum and I will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma. I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the initial use of a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcraft old timers when I attended schools or sales events at the factory. However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incident. I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-Bone for at least the first flying trip to Camp David. By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made of an Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Meigs Field to work every day? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/6/2010 7:05:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: Hi again Bob, Well, I=99m certainly no expert on military aviation and therefore have no reference material here that would be of any help. However, within Air-Britain (Historians) we have Specialists in many aspects of aviation and there is an online Forum called =9CAB-IX=9D (Air-Britain Information Exchange). People can ask questions they are unable to resolve themselves and the vast majority of them get answered by other people who have the required knowledge or expertise. I therefore posed a question yesterday as to whether President Eisenhower had a Beech D-50 (L-23) at his disposal. One guy replied that the only two items on Presidential aircraft that he has available (American Aviation Historical Society, Issue 2 1963 and Flying magazine, August 1990), make no mention of a Beech being used by the President. Another guy, our Specialist on the Beech 18, doesn=99t remember seeing any reference to Eisenhower using a Twin Bonanza in Beech histories, literature or newsletters. He did add though that the USAF did actually have at least one example of the L-23. Designated as an XL-23C, 55-3465 c/n CH-123 "Long Tom", had extended floating wing panels for an experimental project. Mfg 1955, project ended 19Dec56. This is from Dick Ward's book "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza" 1998. As an aside, another guy says =9CI visited Weston Executive Airport, just outside Dublin, in June of 2008. On being accompanied around the hangars my colleagues and I were shown a Beech C-45H, G-BSZC , c/n AF258, Built 1952, formerly N9541Z and 51-11701A. She was named Southern Comfort and carried USAF under the port wing. We were told that this aircraft had been used at some time by President Eisenhower, and whilst I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story, we accepted the comment at face value at the time.=9D To this, our Beech 18 Specialist replied =9CI first came across this claim online and it accompanied a photo for sale of G-BSZC. They claimed that it belonged "to ex-president Eisenhower and flown by Paul Tibbet [sic Tibbets] of Enola Gay WWII." I'm not sure if the claim is that Eisenhower flew in it while it was in service with SAC in the USAF and he was President (1953-1961) or that he owned it as a civilian (he retired to a farm in Gettysburg, PA & died in Mar69). According to FAA files he didn't own it. Perhaps the USAF log book shows he flew in it, that would be great if that could be confirmed.=9D So, Ike could have flown in a Beech D-50 (L-23), but I feel sure that one was not set aside for his permanent use. The Commanders were, of course, and were ordered for this specific purpose. My feeling is that Army aircraft simply wouldn=99t have been used and the Commanders were operated by a unit within the USAF (1254th Air Transport Group, 1298th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron. A sister unit, the 1299th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron flew the President=99s aides, Secret Service personnel and foreign dignitaries. However, if your sources are adamant that an L-23 was used, we in Air-Britain would like to know more. Does anybody have a copy of the book mentioned earlier (By Dick Ward, "Beechcraft Twin Bonanza", from 1998.) Surely, if Eisenhower had flown in an L-23, the book would highlight that fact? Best Regards, Barry ric.com">www.aeroelectric.com w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com thelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributio n t href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com =_blank>www.aeroelectric.com m/" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List tp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:08 AM PST US From: "sr14572@yahoo.com" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video I normally don't chime in, but I met Dick Ward in 2007 (i think, or somewhe re =0Aaround then) and considered buying one of his two T-bones when he was =0Adownsizing.=C2- I even have a book that he autographed and gave to me .....he was an =0Ainteresting guy....what a salesman (good).=C2- During o ur conversation(s) I told =0Ahim that I had a 500B and loved it, and asked him if the T-bone would =0Acompare......with a smile on my face.=C2- He l aughed and said that the glass =0Aceiling would break if I bought his T-bon e.=C2- I did a lot of soul searching and =0Adecided to not buy any T-bone .=C2- I was spoiled.=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0AFrom: "yourtcfg@aol.com" =0ATo: commander-list@matron ics.com=0ASent: Mon, December 6, 2010 11:26:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: Commander- List: Commander photo / video=0A=0AI too Miss Dick.=C2- We often exchange d newsletter articles and he was a genuine =0AGentleman.=C2- Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike =0Aand if he flew a T bone.=C2- Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I =0Adoubt minds will be changed.=C2- However, I have in my possession a great litt le =0Abook titled "The Flying White house" by Col.Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One =0Apilot.=C2- The book chronicles the history of A.F.O.=C2- It is a great book, well =0Awritten and factual.=C2- The author has no al legiance to any airplane (except maybe =0Athe Boeing 707).=0AThere are a fe w pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ =0Athe=C2 - T bone!=C2- I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all tha t is =0Awritten on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased=C2 -excerpts.=C2- So, =0Ahere we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had s everal other presidential =0Aaircraft- each of them them a speedy twin prop eller L-26 Aero Commander"=C2- "The =0Alight, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance =0Aflights"=C2- When Ike a cquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to =0Aconvince=C2 -him a faster way of getting there had to be found"=C2- "The secret ser vice =0Awas worried=C2-about the safety of small aircraft for presidentia l use, they would =0Anot let the president fly in any airplane with less th an four engines"=C2- "But Ike =0Awas insistant and, there had to be a fas ter way"=C2-=C2- "I know ther are small =0Aaircraft that can do the tri ck" =C2-Ike told James Rowley=C2- "I know you have =0Areservations, so find a model that suits us both"=C2- "After months of test flying, =0Aand study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the =0Amost suitable aircraft"=C2- "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes =0Aimpatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter H ouse"=C2- "And so on =0AJune 3 1955, a president cf the United States fle w for the first time in=C2-light =0Aaircraft"=C2- "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy =0Atwo mike trip in twenty th ree minutes"=C2-=C2-"The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod =0Arunway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more =0Ase cret service agents,=C2-plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas=C2 -with a =0Adelegation of reporters to record the historic airlift"=C2- So, you see, the =0Agovernment did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE =0APRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=C2- After his heart attack in=C2-July of 1956, a bed was =0Ainstalled in Ikes AERO COMMANDER=C2-so he could still travel to the farm, a feat =0Aimpossible in a Bone.=C2- T here is much more information about the=C2-AERO COMMANDER =0Aand there pr esidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted =0Ain =C2-a very simallr paint scheme.=C2-=C2-There is mention of him flyin g a Stearman, but =0ANO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza=C2- =0AWhile he was clearly around both types, th e Commander was his airplane of =0Achoice.=C2- sorry=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2- =C2-BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes =0Atoo!!!!=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- ;-)=C2-=C2-=C2 - =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: BobsV35B@aol.com =0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 9:52 am=0ASubj ect: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video=0A=0A=0AGood Morning Keith ,=0A=0AWe lost Dick in 2008.=C2- =0A=0AMiss him too.=0A=0AAnd: =C2----- =C2- I like both machines! Flew them a lot back in the fifties and =0Asix ties.=0A=0AHappy Skies,=0A=0AOld Bob=0A=0AIn a message dated 12/6/2010 10:2 4:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, =0Acloudcraft@aol.com writes:=0AIt is a sh ame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 =0Athan anyone else I ever met.Old Bob,=0A>=0A>Sometimes bad news travels slowly. =C2- I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone =0A>West.=C2- In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and =0A>I spoke man y times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero =0A>Comm ander -- had in common.=C2-=C2- At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so =0A>T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the e ngine, prop,=C2- parts =0A>and service=C2- providers our fleet numbers. =0A>=0A>We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jo usting with =0A>him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the =0A>T-Bone.=0A>=0A>Best to you -- and thank you for droppi ng in with your wit and wisdom every now =0A>and then.=0A>=0A>Keith S. Gord on=0A>aka Wing Commander Gordon=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.=0A>NBAA Access Committee=0A>Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep=0A>Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA R ep=0A>Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>--- --Original Message-----=0A>From: BobsV35B@aol.com=0A>To: commander-list@mat ronics.com=0A>Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 6:11 am=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List : Commander photo / video=0A>=0A>=0A>Good Morning Barry,=0A>=0A>While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea =0A>i s accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt v ery =0A>much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chan ces are it =0A>was a routine Army airplane.=C2- As I said before, I heard the story from Army =0A>pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a wh ole passel of T-Bones! =0A>=0A>When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to =0A>eliminate the climb up those ori ginal "steps on a stick".=C2- Beech even redesigned =0A>the access to the D50 because of it, =C2-but the damage was done.=0A>=0A>It is a shame tha t Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 =0A>than anyon e else I ever met.=0A>=0A>I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was =0A>never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly =0A>in one every now and then.=C2 - It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without =0A>getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison =0A>aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so.=0A>=0A>I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper =0A>was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If =0A>anyone would ha ve done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would =0A>have been Rusty.=0A>=0A>The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am famil iar=C2-were the Connie he =0A>used as General Of The Armies and the Colum bine he used as President.=0A>=0A>I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute =0A>between his home at Gettysburg and Te terboro when he was President of Columbia =0A>University, but have never fo und any proof of his ownership. It is quite =0A>possible that the Bonanza w as a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very =0A>short time.=0A>=0A> We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum an d I =0A>will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma. =0A>=0A>I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the in itial use of =0A>a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcr aft old timers when I =0A>attended schools or sales events at the factory. =0A>=0A>=0A>However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incide nt.=0A>=0A>I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-B one for=C2-at least =0A>the first=C2-flying trip to Camp David.=0A>=0A> By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made o f an =0A>Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Mei gs Field to =0A>work every day?=0A>=0A>Happy Skies,=0A>=0A>Old Bob=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>In a message dated 12/6/2010 7:05:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, =0A>barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:=0A>Hi again Bob,=0A>>=C2-=0A> >Well, I=99m certainly no expert on military aviation and therefore h ave no =0A>>reference material here that would be of any help.=0A>>However, within Air-Britain (Historians) we have Specialists in many aspects of =0A >>aviation and there is an online Forum called =9CAB-IX=9D (Air -Britain Information =0A>>Exchange).=0A>>People can ask questions they are unable to resolve themselves and the vast =0A>>majority of them get answere d by other people who have the required knowledge or =0A>>expertise.=0A>> =C2-=0A>>I therefore posed a question yesterday as to whether President E isenhower had a =0A>>Beech D-50 (L-23) at his disposal.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>One guy replied that the only two items on Presidential aircraft that he has =0A>>available (American Aviation Historical Society, Issue 2 1963 and Flyi ng =0A>>magazine, August 1990), make no mention of a Beech being used by th e President.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>Another guy, our Specialist on the Beech 18, do esn=99t remember seeing any =0A>>reference to Eisenhower using a Twin Bonanza in Beech histories, literature or =0A>>newsletters.=0A>>He did add though that the USAF did actually have at least one example of the =0A>>L- 23. Designated as an XL-23C, 55-3465 c/n CH-123 "Long Tom", had extended =0A>>floating wing panels for an experimental project. Mfg 1955, project en ded =0A>>19Dec56.=0A>>This is from Dick Ward's book "Beechcraft Twin Bonanz a" 1998.=0A>>=C2-=0A>>As an aside, another guy says =9CI visited We ston Executive=C2-Airport, just outside =0A>>Dublin, in June of 2008. On =C2-being accompanied around the hangars my colleagues =0A>>and I were sh own a Beech C-45H, G-BSZC , c/n AF258, Built 1952, formerly N9541Z =0A>>and 51-11701A.=C2-She was named Southern Comfort and carried USAF under the port =0A>>wing.=C2- We were told that this aircraft had been used at some time by President =0A>>Eisenhower, and whilst I cannot vouch for the authe nticity of this story, we =0A>>accepted the comment at face value at the ti me.=9D=0A>>=0A>>To this, our Beech 18 Specialist replied =9CI f irst came across this claim online =0A>>and it accompanied a photo for sale of G-BSZC. They claimed that it belonged "to =0A>>ex-president Eisenhower and flown by Paul Tibbet [sic Tibbets] of Enola Gay =0A>>WWII." I'm not sur e if the claim is that Eisenhower flew in it while it was in =0A>>service w ith SAC in the USAF and he was President (1953-1961) or that he owned =0A>> it as a civilian (he retired to a farm in Gettysburg, PA & died in Mar69). =0A>>According to FAA files he didn't own it. Perhaps the USAF log book sho ws he flew =0A>>in it, that would be great if that could be confirmed. =9D=0A>>=0A>>So, Ike could have flown in a Beech D-50 (L-23), but I feel sure that one was =0A>>not set aside for his permanent use.=0A>>The Comman ders were, of course, and were ordered for this specific purpose.=0A>>My fe eling is that Army aircraft simply wouldn=99t have been used and the =0A>>Commanders were operated by a unit within the USAF (1254th Air Transpo rt Group, =0A>>1298th Air Transport (Special Missions) Squadron. A sister u nit, the 1299th Air =0A>>Transport (Special Missions) Squadron flew the Pre sident=99s aides, Secret Service =0A>>personnel and foreign dignitari es.=0A>>=C2-However, if your sources are adamant that an L-23 was used, w e in Air-Britain =0A>>would like to know more.=0A>>Does anybody have a copy of the book mentioned earlier (By Dick Ward, =0A>>"Beechcraft Twin Bonanza ", from 1998.)=0A>>Surely, if Eisenhower had flown in an L-23, the book wou ld highlight that =0Afact?=0A>>=0A>>Best Regards,=0A>>Barry=0A>=0A> =0A> ======================== =============0A> ric.com">www.aeroelectr ic.com=0A> w.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0A> thelp.com">ww w.homebuilthelp.com=0A> ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A> ===================== ================0A> ator?Commander-Li st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0A> ==== ========0A> ttp://forums.matronics.com=0A> === =========0A> =0A> ============ ======================== =0A>ttp://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com m/ =0A>href="http:/ /www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>"http://www.homebuilthel p.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com =0A>tp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http ://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>============ ======================== t =0A>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List=0A> =========== =0A>ms.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com/ =0A>====== ===== =0A>=0A ================ ==================== =_blank>www. aeroelectric.com m/" =0Atarget=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com =_blank>www .homebuilthelp.com =0A_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=== ======== =0At" =0Atarget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/ Navigator?Commander-List================= ====================0A tp://forums.ma tronics.com ===================== =0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:39 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Good Morning Jim, I think we can agree that no minds will be changed. Col. Ralph Albertazzie is strictly a Johnnie come lately. Rusty Draper was Ike's pilot both during WWII and while he was President of the USA. I would be a LOT more interested in what he might have to say. However, all of the data you have presented concerns what happened AFTER Mamie slipped and skinned her shin. I have seen nothing about Ike making his inspection tour of Korea prior to inauguration and no mention of his rather extensive flying background.. Not unusual, though, since most of it was way outside the regulations! What do you think the chances are of any flying Ike did that was outside of the Army's rules ever being documented? As I said before: If you were a General AND an avid aviator, don't you think you might tend to grab a bit of stick time? The data also makes the quote: "When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trips to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" This does NOT jibe with known history. If the quote was not accurate, how can we be sure the rest is accurate? Ike had acquired his farm long before he became president of the USA. In fact. he had the sod runway installed for use of his Bonanza when he was president of Columbia University. The Bonanza made the commute to Teterboro very nicely. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:35:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, yourtcfg@aol.com writes: I too Miss Dick. We often exchanged newsletter articles and he was a genuine Gentleman. Now, I have been reading with great interest so post regarding Ike and if he flew a T bone. Since none of us were there it is safe to say that I doubt minds will be changed. However, I have in my possession a great little book titled "The Flying White house" by Col. Ralph Albertazzie, an Air Force One pilot. The book chronicles the history of A.F.O. It is a great book, well written and factual. The author has no allegiance to any airplane (except maybe the Boeing 707). There are a few pages devoted to the history of the Aero Commander, and........ the T bone! I wish I could type faster, I would love to share all that is written on the subject, but will need to share only paraphrased excerpts. So, here we go. "Not generally know is that Eke had several other presidential aircraft- each of them them a speedy twin propeller L-26 Aero Commander" "The light, little planes were already popular with military brass for short distance flights" When Ike acquired his farm near Gettysburg, it took only a few trip to convince him a faster way of getting there had to be found" "The secret service was worried about the safety of small aircraft for presidential use, they would not let the president fly in any airplane with less than four engines" "But Ike was insistant and, there had to be a faster way" "I know ther are small aircraft that can do the trick" Ike told James Rowley "I know you have reservations, so find a model that suits us both" "After months of test flying, and study, the secret service and the FAA selected the AERO COMMANDER as the most suitable aircraft" "On Mat 23 1955 an order was placed but to ease Ikes impatience, a demonstrator, N2724B was leased to the Whiter House" "And so on June 3 1955, a president cf the United States flew for the first time in light aircraft" "With two pilots and Rowley accompaning Ike, they made the seventy two mike trip in twenty three minutes" "The AERO COMMANDER landed on the sod runway at Gettysburg followed closely by another AERO COMMANDER with three more secret service agents, plus several Beechcraft L-23, Twin Bonnanzas with a delegation of reporters to record the historic airlift" So, you see, the government did in fact believe that Twin Bonanazas were safe enough for THE PRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After his heart attack in July of 1956, a bed was installed in Ikes AERO COMMANDER so he could still travel to the farm, a feat impossible in a Bone. There is much more information about the AERO COMMANDER and there presidential use including the fact that even today's 747 are painted in a very simallr paint scheme. There is mention of him flying a Stearman, but NO mention of him EVER flying re even being allowed to ride in a Twin Bonanza While he was clearly around both types, the Commander was his airplane of choice. sorry BTW, I think Bones are great airplanes too!!!! ;-) -----Original Message----- From: BobsV35B@aol.com Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 9:52 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Good Morning Keith, We lost Dick in 2008. Miss him too. And: ---- I like both machines! Flew them a lot back in the fifties and sixties. Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/6/2010 10:24:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, _cloudcraft@aol.com_ (mailto:cloudcraft@aol.com) writes: It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met. Old Bob, Sometimes bad news travels slowly. I wasn't aware that Dick Ward had gone West. In the early days (as in 1996) of the Twin Commander Flight Group he and I spoke many times and shared resources that the two brands -- Beech and Aero Commander -- had in common. At one time we discussed a joint fly-in event so T-Bone and bathtub nacelled Commander owners could show the engine, prop, parts and service providers our fleet numbers. We had a most friendly rivalry and I'm sorry to learn I won't be jousting with him any longer over why the Aero Commander was soooooo much better than the T-Bone. Best to you -- and thank you for dropping in with your wit and wisdom every now and then. Keith S. Gordon aka Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep -----Original Message----- From: _BobsV35B@aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com) Sent: Mon, Dec 6, 2010 6:11 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander photo / video Good Morning Barry, While I am confident that the story about Ike using a T-Bone to fly around Korea is accurate and that he used one to fly to Camp David is accurate, I doubt very much if any individual airplane was assigned to the operation. Chances are it was a routine Army airplane. As I said before, I heard the story from Army pilots, not Air Force personnel. The Army had a whole passel of T-Bones! When Mamie skinned her shin, the decision was made to get the Aero Commander to eliminate the climb up those original "steps on a stick". Beech even redesigned the access to the D50 because of it, but the damage was done. It is a shame that Dick Ward is no longer with us. He knew more about the D50 than anyone else I ever met. I am fairly familiar with Twin Beech history and I am confident that there was never a Twin Beech specifically assigned to Ike. I would imagine that he did fly in one every now and then. It was hard to be in the Army during WWII without getting in a DC-3 or a Twin Beech on occasion. He also flew in various liaison aircraft whenever it was appropriate to do so. I also doubt that Paul Tibbets would have done any flying with Ike. Rusty Draper was his pilot during WWII and he chose him to fly the Columbine as well. If anyone would have done any flying for Ike after he left the presidency, it would have been Rusty. The only airplanes he was assigned with which I am familiar were the Connie he used as General Of The Armies and the Columbine he used as President. I have tried to locate the serial number of the Bonanza he used to commute between his home at Gettysburg and Teterboro when he was President of Columbia University, but have never found any proof of his ownership. It is quite possible that the Bonanza was a leased aircraft and he only used it for a very short time. We have a small amount of D50 material at the Beechcraft Heritage Museum and I will try to see what might be there next time I get to Tullahoma. I have discussed the Eisenhower use of a T-Bone in Korea and the initial use of a T-Bone for use to get to Camp David with several Beechcraft old timers when I attended schools or sales events at the factory. However, I know of no written documentation of the Mamie incident. I am absolutely confident it occurred and that Ike did use a T-Bone for at least the first flying trip to Camp David. By the way. Are you familiar with the use Colonel Robert R McCormick made of an Aero Commander to commute from Wheaton, Illinois, to Chicago's Meigs Field to work every day? Happy Skies, Old Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.