---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 12/14/10: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:18 AM - 2010 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:17 AM - Class B/ Speed (Dan Farmer) 3. 07:25 AM - Re: Class B/ Speed (BobsV35B@aol.com) 4. 08:01 AM - Re: Class B/ Speed (Keith S. Gordon) 5. 09:44 AM - Re: Class B/ Speed (dongirod) 6. 10:33 PM - Re: South African Commanders (cybersuperstore) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:18:29 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Commander-List: 2010 List of Contributors Dear Listers, The 2010 Matronics Email List and Forum Fund Raiser officially ended a couple of weeks ago and its time that I publish this year's List of Contributors. Its the people on this list that directly make the Email Lists and Forums possible. Their generous contributions keep the servers and Internet connection up and running. You can still show your support this year and pick up a great gift at the same time. The Contribution Web Site is fast, easy, and secure: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 I also want to thank Bob, Jon, and Andy for their generous support through the supply of great gifts this year!! These guys have some great products and I encourage you to visit their respective web sites: Bob Nucklolls - AeroElectric - www.aeroelectric.com Jon Croke - HomebuiltHELP - www.homebuilthelp.com Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - www.buildersbooks.com And finally, I'm proud to present The 2010 Fund Raiser List of Contributors: http://www.matronics.com/loc/2010.html Thanks again to everyone that made a Contribution this year!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:20 AM PST US From: Dan Farmer Subject: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed Don, I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence reads "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Referring to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K. As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K. dan f ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:37 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed Good Morning All, It has been over twenty-one years since I last flew a "dash thirty" DC-10, but our company policy at that time was to advise ATC any time we found it necessary to exceed the 250 knot restriction. Most of the time, we would just leave some flaps hanging out until we got above ten thousand feet. The only response I ever got when I did mention the problem was "Thanks United". Have times changed or was that just my company's way of doing things? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/14/2010 8:17:46 A.M. Central Standard Time, daniellfarmer@yahoo.com writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: Dan Farmer Don, I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence reads "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Referring to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K. As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K. dan f ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed From: "Keith S. Gordon" You'll probably note from my tag line that I'm neck deep in Class B ops an d redesign for Las Vegas. 91.117 allows 250 knots from the SURFACE of the Class B airport and through Class B airspace. Example: You're departing Atlanta. You can accelerate to 250 knots right away -- and ATC expects this. Houston had an experimental program (via Special FAR) for a number of year s that allowed 300 knots in Class B. That program is finished. If your aircraft (DC-10) has a design requirement for a higher speed withi n Class B that's understood by ATC. If you exceed 250 knots in Class B in a type that does not need to go fast er and ATC asks your speed they are not going to violate you. 99% of all of the ATC guys I work with have the mantra, "We're not traffic cops." That statement is not made by FSDO inspectors. In the world of RNAV SIDs and STARs procedure development, "containment" and turn anticipation is based on an indicated 250 knots in Class B, conv erted to TAS for the altitude the aircraft is at over the fix, plus a cons tant tailwind factor, usually 60 knots. Blow out of containment because you're flying too fast and it could result in a QA -- Quality Assurance -- report by ATC and those find their way to FSDO for review. Keith S. Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. NBAA Access Committee Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep -----Original Message----- From: Dan Farmer Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 6:14 am Subject: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed Don, I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence rea ds "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspa ce area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Ref erring to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K. As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K. dan f ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:56 AM PST US From: "dongirod" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed Dan I agree with you, it is my understanding, that to exceed the 250 limitations, it's as simple as a radio call. Lots of references when I Googled "Class B airspeed restrictions" As I think back on the statement I made about flying between MIA and Nassau MANY years ago, I think what happened was the speeding up above 250 when 6 miles offshore but below 10K, but you were still in the TCA so therefore could not. Been a long time, but I think that is what happened. Don -----Original Message----- From: Dan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed Don, I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence reads "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Referring to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K. As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K. dan f ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:53 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: South African Commanders Folks, Carl Dollenberg responded to some of my posts on a website somewhere about Commanders in South Africa. The latest post to our Facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Aero-Commander/144424762275884) contains pictures that I took a while ago and Carl was kind enough to fill in the blanks. The other 690 was KZY whose pictures I will post as soon as I stumble upon them. Sir Barry, perhaps you knew of the fate of a Commander (JRF) on its way to the U.S. Carl's abbreviated account is below. I invited Carl to join our chat list should he be so inclined. Thanks Nico Hi Nico, That is one of ESCOM's 1000's. They have KZY and KZZ. ZS-KZX was sold to the US a few years back. The SA Weather Service have ZS-JRA (11284) and ZS-JRB (11248) that are used for weather modification. ZS-JRH (Ex ESCOM Kimberly) is now being used as a geographical survey aircraft. ZS-JRC is standing almost derelict at Grand Central as V5-MGF. ZS-JRD was exported to the US in the 80's ZS-JRF went missing en-route to the US somewhere between Windhoek and Gabon, There is still no word as to what happened to the aircraft. It is presumed that they were either shot down over Angola or ditched of the Angolan Coast. Tony Geddy(sp) and Slim Bird were the crew involved ZS-JRZ Exported to the US in the 80's I will speak to my father who knew all the commanders in SA and find out their fate. -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dongirod Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:43 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed --> Dan I agree with you, it is my understanding, that to exceed the 250 limitations, it's as simple as a radio call. Lots of references when I Googled "Class B airspeed restrictions" As I think back on the statement I made about flying between MIA and Nassau MANY years ago, I think what happened was the speeding up above 250 when 6 miles offshore but below 10K, but you were still in the TCA so therefore could not. Been a long time, but I think that is what happened. Don -----Original Message----- From: Dan Farmer Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:14 AM Subject: Commander-List: Class B/ Speed --> Don, I am not sure if you agree with me or not. FAA 91.117b last sentence reads "This paragraph (b) does not apply to any operation within class B airspace area. Such operations shall comply with paragraph (a) of this section" Referring to P.(a) it limits speed to 250K below 10K. As to the exemption to exceed 250 for aircraft requirements, I do not know where to find it, I just know it is done all the time. On a couple occasions I have been ask to say speed and nothing was said if the reply to ATC was 300K. dan f ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.