Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:20 AM - Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) (Peter Bichier)
2. 12:43 PM - Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) (Keith S. Gordon)
3. 12:56 PM - Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) (Cate Chagnot)
4. 01:43 PM - Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander 560 (Marcos Della)
5. 01:54 PM - Re: Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) (White_rhino_ps)
6. 01:55 PM - Re: Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) (Brock Lorber)
7. 02:49 PM - (Jim Addington)
8. 03:51 PM - Re: (Steele, Bob)
9. 04:14 PM - Re: (Jim Addington)
10. 07:06 PM - Re: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander 560 (Jack B. Mills)
11. 08:01 PM - Re: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander 560 (Donnie Rose)
Message 1
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Subject: | Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) |
Have you guys heard of this one?
a beautiful 560E that use to belong to Delaware Police, sold and
crashed...
Here is NTSB's report:
NTSB Identification: ERA10LA457
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 31, 2010 in Jacksonville, FL
Aircraft: AERO COMMANDER 560E, registration: N175SP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain
errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final
report has been completed.
On August 31, 2010, about 0815 eastern daylight time, an Aero
Commander 560E, N175SP (previously registered as N6SP), was
substantially damaged during a forced landing, after experiencing a
loss of engine power during the initial climb after takeoff from the
Herlong Airport (HEG), Jacksonville, Florida. The certificated private
pilot and a certificated flight instructor (CFI) were not injured.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and no flight plan had been
filed for the flight destined for Craig Municipal Airport (CRG), also
located in Jacksonville, Florida. The personal flight was conducted
under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91.
During an interview, the pilot reported that he purchased the airplane
on June 19, 2010. The airplane was previously owned by the Delaware
State Police, and had not been flown for over 1 year. On July 23,
2010, after maintenance which included an annual inspection, the pilot
took delivery of the airplane in Delaware, and flew it to HEG.
The purpose of the accident flight was to fly to CRG for avionics
related maintenance. The pilot performed a preflight inspection, which
included checking the fuel tanks for water contamination, prior to the
flight. The pilot and CFI, who the pilot considered a safety pilot per
insurance requirements, departed without incident. The airplane was in
a climb between 1,500 and 2,000 feet, when the left engine quit. The
pilot successfully feathered the engine; however, shortly thereafter,
the right engine began to "sputter" and also quit. The pilot was
unable to restore engine power in either engine, and performed a
forced landing to Interstate I-10. During the landing, the airplane
struck trees, which resulted in substantial damage to both wings and
the fuselage.
The CFI reported that he assumed control of the airplane immediately
after the left engine failed. He secured the left engine and
subsequently maneuvered the airplane for the forced landing. While on
approach, he observed power lines which necessitated lowering the
airplane's nose, and increased the touchdown airspeed. During the
landing roll, the airplane's right tire departed the paved surface,
and the airplane veered into trees, toward a fence.
The airplane was subsequently removed from the accident site for
further examination to be conducted under the supervision of a Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) inspector, at a later date.
The pilot further reported that the airplane had been operated for
about 20 hours since it was purchased, and was last flown on August
11, 2010. At that time, fuel was added to the airplane which brought
the total fuel on board to approximately 80 gallons in the main fuel
tanks, and 20 gallons in the auxiliary fuel tanks.
The pilot reported 250 hours of total flight experience, which
included about 90 hours in multiengine airplanes. His most recent
application for an FAA third-class medical certificate was issued on
September 15, 2009.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past |
summer)
Very likely fuel contamination but we can't rule out pilot error. Were
the fuel selectors set to the outboard tanks?
A 680E crashed in Lakeland, FL, about 13 or 14 years ago because of that
-- fuel selectors set on the outboard tanks for take-off. On top of that
, the pilot was unfamiliar with the Aero Commander and had just finished
up instrument training in a Beech Dutchess which added to the mishandling
/ confusion of the aircraft's systems and operating procedures.
How experienced in make/model and Aero Commanders, in general were the pil
ot and the safety pilot? That's all part of the mix.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
FAASTeam
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bichier <pbichie@UTNet.UToledo.Edu>
Sent: Wed, Dec 22, 2010 11:15 am
Subject: Commander-List: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past
summer)
Have you guys heard of this one?
a beautiful 560E that use to belong to Delaware Police, sold and crashed..
.
Here is NTSB's report:
NTSB Identification: ERA10LA457
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Tuesday, August 31, 2010 in Jacksonville, FL
Aircraft: AERO COMMANDER 560E, registration: N175SP
Injuries: 2 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors
. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has be
en completed.
On August 31, 2010, about 0815 eastern daylight time, an Aero Commander 56
0E, N175SP (previously registered as N6SP), was substantially damaged duri
ng a forced landing, after experiencing a loss of engine power during the
initial climb after takeoff from the Herlong Airport (HEG), Jacksonville,
Florida. The certificated private pilot and a certificated flight instruc
tor (CFI) were not injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed and
no flight plan had been filed for the flight destined for Craig Municipal
Airport (CRG), also located in Jacksonville, Florida. The personal flight
was conducted under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part
91.
During an interview, the pilot reported that he purchased the airplane on
June 19, 2010. The airplane was previously owned by the Delaware State Po
lice, and had not been flown for over 1 year. On July 23, 2010, after main
tenance which included an annual inspection, the pilot took delivery of th
e airplane in Delaware, and flew it to HEG.
The purpose of the accident flight was to fly to CRG for avionics related
maintenance. The pilot performed a preflight inspection, which included
checking the fuel tanks for water contamination, prior to the flight. The
pilot and CFI, who the pilot considered a safety pilot per insurance requ
irements, departed without incident. The airplane was in a climb between
1,500 and 2,000 feet, when the left engine quit. The pilot successfully
feathered the engine; however, shortly thereafter, the right engine began
to "sputter" and also quit. The pilot was unable to restore engine power
in either engine, and performed a forced landing to Interstate I-10. Duri
ng the landing, the airplane struck trees, which resulted in substantial
damage to both wings and the fuselage.
The CFI reported that he assumed control of the airplane immediately after
the left engine failed. He secured the left engine and subsequently maneu
vered the airplane for the forced landing. While on approach, he observed
power lines which necessitated lowering the airplane's nose, and increase
d the touchdown airspeed. During the landing roll, the airplane's right ti
re departed the paved surface, and the airplane veered into trees, toward
a fence.
The airplane was subsequently removed from the accident site for further
examination to be conducted under the supervision of a Federal Aviation
Administration (FAA) inspector, at a later date.
The pilot further reported that the airplane had been operated for about
20 hours since it was purchased, and was last flown on August 11, 2010.
At that time, fuel was added to the airplane which brought the total fuel
on board to approximately 80 gallons in the main fuel tanks, and 20 gallo
ns in the auxiliary fuel tanks.
The pilot reported 250 hours of total flight experience, which included ab
out 90 hours in multiengine airplanes. His most recent application for an
FAA third-class medical certificate was issued on September 15, 2009.
========================
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past summer) |
Makes me wonder who was actually PIC, the pilot/owner or the CFI? It seems that
the CFI took over when the left engine quit and then dealt with the right engine
failure and landing. I'm sure both were working hard at doing everything they
could but who gets the credit for the landing?
Cate
N4278S
--------
Cate
N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324152#324152
Message 4
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Subject: | Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander |
560
Hi folks, I've been looking for this for awhile just to get an idea of what
the original wiring in my commander was supposed to look like. Probably
40-50% of the wiring has been "upgraded/replaced/modified" however much of
the older braided wiring is still in place and connecting to things that few
of the A/Ps around here can readily identify. At least for function we can
figure much out, but not necessary where the wires go from there. Since
this is a restoration project, I'm not in any time rush, but would like to
get a handle on much of the wiring (and the removal of much of the older
unused wiring) while the plane is in pieces...
Marcos
P.S. This is for an Aero Commander 560 (GO-480 engines).
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past |
summer)
If you check the Jacksonville News on that day, they had a number of color pictures
posted.
>From my iPhone 4!
On Dec 22, 2010, at 12:54 PM, "Cate Chagnot" <cchagnot@ultimateair.com> wrote:
>
> Makes me wonder who was actually PIC, the pilot/owner or the CFI? It seems that
the CFI took over when the left engine quit and then dealt with the right engine
failure and landing. I'm sure both were working hard at doing everything
they could but who gets the credit for the landing?
>
> Cate
> N4278S
>
> --------
> Cate
>
> N4278S 680E
> Skywagon N180PK
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324152#324152
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Another fuel contamination case? (from this past |
summer)
I can't believe the CFI would admit to taking the controls. The only
benefit to being a CFI is to log PIC/approaches/landings without
officially doing a darn thing but enjoying the scenery. :-)
Emergency expectations are part of my portion of the pre-flight brief:
"You are the pilot-in-command. In case of emergency, you will remain
the pilot-in-command. At no time will I take the controls unless you
request it, and then we will do a positive exchange of controls. You
say, 'you have the controls.' I will respond, 'I have the controls,'
and shake the stick."
Of course, I'm always available to assist and/or nudge in the right
direction. ;-)
Cate Chagnot wrote:
>
> Makes me wonder who was actually PIC, the pilot/owner or the CFI? It seems that
the CFI took over when the left engine quit and then dealt with the right engine
failure and landing. I'm sure both were working hard at doing everything
they could but who gets the credit for the landing?
>
> Cate
> N4278S
>
> --------
> Cate
>
> N4278S 680E
> Skywagon N180PK
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324152#324152
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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Does any one have or know where I can find a copy of the FAA vs. Mr. Claus.
It is where the FAA inspector is going to give Santa a big violation. He can
not find where he has a medical much less an IFR ticket and he is sure that
the spar in the slay is not strong enough to carry all those toys. He knows
that one red light is not legal for night and he also knows that flying one
night a year does not meet the rules for IFR. It has a lot more.
Jim
N444BD
Message 8
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|
Not the one you are looking for - but still funny!
Santa and the FAA
> Santa Claus, like all pilots, gets regular visits from
> the Federal Aviation Administration, and it was shortly before
Christmas
> when the FAA examiner arrived.
> In preparation, Santa had the elves wash the sled and
> bathe all the reindeer. Santa got out his logbook and made sure all
his
> paperwork was in order.
> The examiner walked slowly around the sled. He checked
> the reindeer harnesses, the landing gear, and Rudolph's nose. He
> painstakingly reviewed Santa's weight and balance calculations for the
> sled's enormous payload.
> Finally, they were ready for the checkride. Santa got in
> and fastened his seatbelt and shoulder harness, and checked the
compass.
> Then the examiner hopped in carrying, to Santa's surprise, a shotgun.
> "What's that for?" asked Santa incredulously.
> The examiner winked and said, "I'm not supposed to tell
> you this, but you're gonna lose an engine on takeoff."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:46 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
<jtaddington@verizon.net>
Does any one have or know where I can find a copy of the FAA vs. Mr.
Claus.
It is where the FAA inspector is going to give Santa a big violation. He
can
not find where he has a medical much less an IFR ticket and he is sure
that
the spar in the slay is not strong enough to carry all those toys. He
knows
that one red light is not legal for night and he also knows that flying
one
night a year does not meet the rules for IFR. It has a lot more.
Jim
N444BD
Message 9
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|
There was another one on the FAA and the STC pencil.
Jim
N444BD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steele, Bob
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List:
Not the one you are looking for - but still funny!
Santa and the FAA
> Santa Claus, like all pilots, gets regular visits from
> the Federal Aviation Administration, and it was shortly before
Christmas
> when the FAA examiner arrived.
> In preparation, Santa had the elves wash the sled and
> bathe all the reindeer. Santa got out his logbook and made sure all
his
> paperwork was in order.
> The examiner walked slowly around the sled. He checked
> the reindeer harnesses, the landing gear, and Rudolph's nose. He
> painstakingly reviewed Santa's weight and balance calculations for the
> sled's enormous payload.
> Finally, they were ready for the checkride. Santa got in
> and fastened his seatbelt and shoulder harness, and checked the
compass.
> Then the examiner hopped in carrying, to Santa's surprise, a shotgun.
> "What's that for?" asked Santa incredulously.
> The examiner winked and said, "I'm not supposed to tell
> you this, but you're gonna lose an engine on takeoff."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Addington
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 5:46 PM
Subject: Commander-List:
<jtaddington@verizon.net>
Does any one have or know where I can find a copy of the FAA vs. Mr.
Claus.
It is where the FAA inspector is going to give Santa a big violation. He
can
not find where he has a medical much less an IFR ticket and he is sure
that
the spar in the slay is not strong enough to carry all those toys. He
knows
that one red light is not legal for night and he also knows that flying
one
night a year does not meet the rules for IFR. It has a lot more.
Jim
N444BD
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander |
560
Hi Marcos,
Good luck on this one. Several years ago we removed 42 pounds of unused
wire and cannon plugs in my 680Fp. The problem with using the original
wiring diagram is that the maintenance manual that you can get probably
does not relate to your particular aircraft. We had to literally trace
down each wire. Be careful, as some wiring will effect more than one
instrument (for instance wiring from an old auto pilot that was removed
twenty years ago may effect the elevator trim tab and HIS when the
wiring from it is removed).
Moe
From: Marcos Della
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:41 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero
Commander 560
Hi folks, I've been looking for this for awhile just to get an idea of
what the original wiring in my commander was supposed to look like.
Probably 40-50% of the wiring has been "upgraded/replaced/modified"
however much of the older braided wiring is still in place and
connecting to things that few of the A/Ps around here can readily
identify. At least for function we can figure much out, but not
necessary where the wires go from there. Since this is a restoration
project, I'm not in any time rush, but would like to get a handle on
much of the wiring (and the removal of much of the older unused wiring)
while the plane is in pieces...
Marcos
P.S. This is for an Aero Commander 560 (GO-480 engines).
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero Commander |
560
and then what wiring replaces it?=0A-=0ADonnie Rose =0A205/492-8444=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack B. Mills <moe-ros
spistons@hotmail.com>=0ATo: commander-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, Decem
ber 22, 2010 10:04:28 PM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Looking for a wirin
g diagram/manual for an Aero =0ACommander 560=0A=0A=0AHi Marcos,=0A-=0AGo
od luck on this one.- Several years ago we removed 42 pounds of unused wi
re =0Aand cannon plugs in my 680Fp.- The problem with using the original
wiring =0Adiagram is that the maintenance manual that you can get probably
does not relate =0Ato your particular aircraft.- We had to literally trac
e down each wire.- Be =0Acareful, as some wiring will effect more than on
e instrument (for instance =0Awiring from an old auto pilot that was remove
d twenty years ago may effect the =0Aelevator trim tab and HIS when the wir
ing from it is removed).=0A-=0AMoe=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: Marcos Della =0ASent:
Wednesday, December 22, 2010 1:41 PM=0ATo: commander-list =0ASubject: Comm
ander-List: Looking for a wiring diagram/manual for an Aero =0ACommander 56
0=0AHi folks, I've been looking for this for awhile just to get an idea of
what the =0Aoriginal wiring in my commander was supposed to look like.- P
robably 40-50% of =0Athe wiring has been "upgraded/replaced/modified" howev
er much of the older =0Abraided wiring is still in place and connecting to
things that few of the A/Ps =0Aaround here can readily identify.- At leas
t for function we can figure much out, =0Abut not necessary where the wires
go from there.- Since this is a restoration =0Aproject, I'm not in any t
ime rush, but would like to get a handle on much of the =0Awiring (and the
removal of much of the older unused wiring) while the plane is =0Ain pieces
...=0A=0AMarcos=0A=0AP.S. This is for an Aero Commander 560 (GO-480 engines
).=0A=0A href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com =0Ahref
="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com =0Ahref="http://w
ww.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com =0Ahref="http://www.matronics
.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.c
om/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-L
isthref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0A =0A
-========================
======= =0A=0A=0A=0A
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