---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/29/10: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:03 AM - Re: Twin & Turbine Article (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 01:40 PM - Re: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE (craig kennedy) 3. 01:53 PM - Re: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE (Barry Collman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:07 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Twin & Turbine Article Good Morning Bill, I know it is very easy to spend someone else's money, but has anyone considered using the IO-550 in lieu of the 520 or 470 in that model Commander? The 550 weighs the same and is physically identical in size to the 520. Continental is charging two to three thousand more for the 550 than the 520, but I will bet it costs them no more to build a 550 than it does to build a 520, or, for that matter, the 470. Is the Sand Cast case required for the Commander? Not sure how Colemill is doing, but they do hold the certificate for an engine Continental builds for them which uses the old sand cast case with the new crank, cylinders, and pistons to provide 550 cubic inches and three hundred horsepower. Not sure if it is available now, but that engine should work in your airplane if no one has an approval for the Permold case. I am now on the third IO-550-B in my Bonanza and could not be happier. I fly higher, faster, and burn less fuel! What is not to like? Happy Skies, Old Bob In a message dated 12/28/2010 8:25:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: William J Hamilton Old Bob, I agree with you entirely. I have been operating IO-540 Lycoming lean of peak since the 1960's, using 6 point temp. probes on all exhaust pipes, the relatively recent availability of calibrated injectors (GAMI) improves the efficiency even further. Factory "recommendations" have varied over the years, but I still have the Lycoming (not Piper) engine handbook for the first IO-540 we ever had, in a 260C Comanche, and the lean of peak recommendations were clear and simple. Quite apart from the fuel savings ( there are equal HP point either side of the peak HP point of the power curve) lean of peak running left us with (then) 1500h TBO cylinders that were so little worn that it was often possible to just deglaze, without boring oversize. As you mentioned, running on the air cold side of peak EGT means the mixture is too week for detonation. Admittedly, we always ran with filter on both the hot and cold air, which helps in dusty conditions. And we always ran high boost, low rpm, essentially full throttle from takeoff, just winding the RPM back on climb, to give the % power required, until TOD. If and when I get the -500A back in the air, it will have GAMI and 6 point EGT on the IO-470s (or maybe 520s, if I can manage it, $$$) and lean of peak will be the order of the day. Cheers, Bill Hamilton > BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > > Good Morning Bill, > > If I may expand on your comments just a bit: > > We should designate whether we are discussing Fahrenheit or Celsius > temperatures. > > The absolutely hottest and most potentially harmful place to operate any > > normal conforming piston engine is around fifty to sixty degrees > Fahrenheit > rich of peak EGT. > > That is also the point where the engine will develop the most power > possible given the amount of air being pumped through it. If it is > normally > aspirated and being operated above sixty-five to seventy-five percent > power, it > should be run at least 100 degrees Fahrenheit richer than peak EGT. > Preferably one hundred and fifty. > > If you want to get the most power possible out of every drop of fuel > being > used, you must operate on the lean side of peak somewhere between twenty > > and eighty degrees Fahrenheit. Twenty degrees works for power settings > around > fifty per cent and eighty lean of peak works well for supercharged > engines > that can be operated as high as eighty per cent power. The absolute > worst > place to operate a normally aspirated engine is fifty rich of peak at a > > power above sixty-five percent. > > Below sixty-five percent power you can't hurt the engine with the > mixture > control. > > All temperatures in Fahrenheit of course! > > All of the above assumes balanced fuel flow to each of those little > engines > that are connected to the same crankshaft. > > Does that agree with your thinking? > > It IS what I was taught in Ada at the Advanced Pilot Seminars. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > > > In a message dated 12/28/2010 12:36:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, > wjrhamilton@optusnet.com.au writes: > > --> Commander-List message posted by: William J Hamilton > > > Folks, > Read the article, made me more than a little envious. > However, there was one quite disturbing "recommendation" in using the > JPI > to run the engines 20 degrees on the rich side of peak EGT, a recipe > for > maximizing the chance of detonation. If you want to run rich of peak, > make it > more like 40+ colder. > If the engines had a set of GAMI injectors, you would be able to run on > > the lean side of peak EGT. Another furphie ( an Australian expression > --- a > bit like a factual Murphie --- but that ain't where the word came from) > is > that minimum fuel flow is at peak EGT ---- not if you are running lean > of > peak, it isn't. > I also notice another bit of disinformation in another article about > in-flight icing, repeating "old wives tales" about the temperature > range for > icing, we have known better for the last 40 or so years. > Cheers, > Bill Hamilton > > > > > Bichier, Peter wrote: > > > > Commanders, > > > > Dianne White (Twin & Turbine editor) kindly shared the article with > me: > > > > Follow this link to the e-edition! > > > > http://digital.turn-page.com/issue/20532 > > > > Merry Christmas & Happy New Year! > > > > Peter Bichier > > Lake Erie Center (Univeristy of Toledo) > > Department of Environmental Sciences > > (419) 530-8384 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Barry > > Collman > > Sent: Mon 12/27/2010 10:22 AM > > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > Subject: RE: Commander-List: Twin & Turbine Article > > > > Hello Randy, > > > > I haven't seen the article but I guess Chris Haag, a good friend of > mine > > who > > owned the Shrike and is helping with the book, got that published. > > > > I'm hoping he'll forward a copy of the article, as one is supposed to > be > > sent to him by the publishers. > > > > Hope you all had an enjoyable Christmas and send very best wishes for > > > 2011. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Barry > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:22 PM PST US From: craig kennedy Subject: Re: Commander-List: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE Hey JB, I didn't realized this gorgeous plane was lost to a mis-fueling accident. Must have been in China and missed an article. What a loss, but glad no one was injured. Sad, but Commander Aero sells the fuel neck restrictors! Craig ________________________________ From: "yourtcfg@aol.com" Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 10:05:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE HI KIDS..Those of you who are a registered Commander owner should soon received your copy of Twin&Turbine magazine. On the cover is a great photo of Chris Haag's ill fated Shrike There is a well written several page story inside. You will remember that it was tragically miss-fueled in Canada and a total loss. I was standing next to this wonderful airplane only days before it was lost. No one was injured, but is is so sad to be reminded of the loss. Chris poured his soul (and countless $$$) into this dream Commander. jb ( PS Don't you just love the repaint in the original Shrike scheme!!!) jb ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:53:54 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: RE: Commander-List: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE Hi Craig, I'll have to check with Chris Haag, but I'm willing to bet that it did have the restrictors. It was re-feuled by hand-pumping from drums at Rankin Inlet airport, Nunavut, Canada during its ferry flight to Switzerland. Although marked as AvGas, one of the two drums is understood to have 'tailings' in it, rather than AvGas, but no doubt the full Report on the accident will reveal all. Best Regards, Barry From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig kennedy Sent: 29 December 2010 21:38 Subject: Re: Commander-List: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE Hey JB, I didn't realized this gorgeous plane was lost to a mis-fueling accident. Must have been in China and missed an article. What a loss, but glad no one was injured. Sad, but Commander Aero sells the fuel neck restrictors! Craig _____ From: "yourtcfg@aol.com" Sent: Sun, December 19, 2010 10:05:05 AM Subject: Commander-List: CHRIS HAAG SHRIKE HI KIDS..Those of you who are a registered Commander owner should soon received your copy of Twin&Turbine magazine. On the cover is a great photo of Chris Haag's ill fated Shrike There is a well written several page story inside. You will remember that it was tragically miss-fueled in Canada and a total loss. I was standing next to this wonderful airplane only days before it was lost. No one was injured, but is is so sad to be reminded of the loss. Chris poured his soul (and countless $$$) into this dream Commander. jb ( PS Don't you just love the repaint in the original Shrike scheme!!!) jb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.