Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:22 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (stratobee)
2. 03:07 AM - Re: 2011 (cybersuperstore)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Scottmain2003@aol.com)
4. 06:10 AM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Tylor Hall)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (cybersuperstore)
6. 07:50 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Barry Collman)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (stratobee)
8. 09:05 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (stratobee)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Nick Martin)
10. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (yourtcfg@aol.com)
11. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Barry Collman)
12. 10:12 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (stratobee)
13. 10:20 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Jack B. Mills)
14. 10:24 AM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (John Vormbaum)
15. 10:30 AM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (BobsV35B@aol.com)
16. 12:15 PM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Chris)
17. 12:17 PM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Chris)
18. 12:33 PM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (White_rhino_ps)
19. 01:29 PM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Barry Collman)
20. 02:13 PM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (BobsV35B@aol.com)
21. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Donald Falik)
22. 02:48 PM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (cybersuperstore)
23. 05:20 PM - Re: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (yourtcfg@aol.com)
24. 05:39 PM - Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. (Chris)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Thanks to all that have emailed offering help.
I should add that I don't yet have my MEP rating, as I'm only half way though that
training. It wasn't planned this way, but then this aircraft came along at
the right price and I couldn't resist. But hence why I'd like ideally to get
a CFI to help me fly it back, so I can log that time and get better situated for
the insurance (as I suspect they'll ask for at least 25 hrs in type).
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325083#325083
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A very happy and prosperous 2011 to you all. May the best of 2010 be the
worst of 2011.
Nico
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Have helpful info for you. contact Scott at Scottmain2003aol.com
In a message dated 12/30/2010 8:02:35 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
adam@adamfrisch.com writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: "stratobee" <adam@adamfrisch.com>
Hi. New member here.
Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown,
in annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown
back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured and
inspected.
Couple of questions:
1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port
Huron/Detroit area for the 520?
2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight
back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or
ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?
3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an
old girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a
replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.
Thanks,
A.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
You need to talk to Jim Metzger, President of TCFG.
He could help you move the aircraft and you would learn a lot about Twin Commander
by just spending a lot of time flying back to CA.
Moe Mills had his 680FP taken care of for many years by some folks at Hawthorne
Airport.
Stop in Albuquerque on your way through. AEG is a good stop for fuel or RON.
Tylor Hall
tylorhall@mac.com
First Fueling Systems, Inc.
100 Iron Ave. SE
Albuquerque, NM 87102
505-400-8373 Cell
505-247-3001
505-247-3005 FAX
www.firstfueling.com
On Dec 31, 2010, at 3:19 AM, stratobee wrote:
>
> Thanks to all that have emailed offering help.
>
> I should add that I don't yet have my MEP rating, as I'm only half way though
that training. It wasn't planned this way, but then this aircraft came along
at the right price and I couldn't resist. But hence why I'd like ideally to get
a CFI to help me fly it back, so I can log that time and get better situated
for the insurance (as I suspect they'll ask for at least 25 hrs in type).
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325083#325083
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Let me be the first to congratulate you, Adam, and welcome you to the group,
too.
I am not sure where in Socal you would be based, but there are at least two
Commanders at Camarillo, one a turboprop.
If there's a facility in Socal, someone on the list will know about it or at
least steer you in the right direction.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:56 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Hi. New member here.
Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, in
annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown
back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured and
inspected.
Couple of questions:
1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port
Huron/Detroit area for the 520?
2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight
back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or
ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?
3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an old
girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a
replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.
Thanks,
A.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062
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| Subject: | Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hi Adam,
Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.
I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?
Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander historian.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: 31 December 2010 00:56
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Hi. New member here.
Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, in
annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown
back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured and
inspected.
Couple of questions:
1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port
Huron/Detroit area for the 520?
2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight
back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or
ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?
3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an old
girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a
replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.
Thanks,
A.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Aircraft will be based at Santa Monica airport. A gentleman emailed and said he
had his 500B serviced at John Wayne and I know there at least used to be a Commander
specialist at Compton Airport. I don't mind if it's a bit away, as long
as they have the right approach or come recommended.
Where can I get a hold of Jim Metzger?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325097#325097
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hi Barry.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. S/N 62, N527P based in Port Huron. The current
owner has been kind enough to scan in some of the performance figures from the
POH for me, but any additional info would be most useful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325100#325100
Message 9
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| Subject: | Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Dear Adam,
Welcome aboard .Where will you be based in Cal ? I am at El Monte ( KEMT).
A California based CFII commander pilot is Hank Smull 818 317 8130 or cell
818 718 8040.Hank was a Commander test pilot and knows them well.good luck
and fly safe..Nick N674NM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:56 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Hi. New member here.
Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown, in
annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be flown
back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured and
inspected.
Couple of questions:
1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port
Huron/Detroit area for the 520?
2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight
back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours (and/or
ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?
3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an old
girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a
replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.
Thanks,
A.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
HELLO ADAM....Jim Metzger here. Congratulations on your Commander!! If
you have not consummated the deal, I strongly suggest contacting Morris
Kernick, Commander Services, Stockton CA 321 403-8813 for a pre buy. No
one knows more about Commanders than Morris and particularly the older ex
amples. There are a few things to be concerned about including motor moun
ts, brakes, fuel cells and propellers It will be the best "Commander Doll
ars" you will ever spend. I also strongly suggest you finish your ME trai
ning in a rented airplane. The geared engines on your 520 are not intended
to be subjected to the abuse ME training will inflict on them. Once you
have complete your rating, it will be a relatively simple matter to check
out in the airplane. Operating the geared engines takes a little getting
use to, but they are great power plants!! I can help move the airplane
to its new home, and teach you a lot about the systems and engine operati
on and hoe to fly your Commander, but I am not an instructor, so you would
not be able to log the time. Feel free to call me at 360-903-6901. HAPP
Y NEW YEAR TO ALL!!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam@adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 7:58 am
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Aircraft will be based at Santa Monica airport. A gentleman emailed and sa
id he
ad his 500B serviced at John Wayne and I know there at least used to be a
ommander specialist at Compton Airport. I don't mind if it's a bit away,
as
ong as they have the right approach or come recommended.
Where can I get a hold of Jim Metzger?
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325097#325097
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Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hi Adam,
OK - thanks for confirming that.
I'll get the history of it extracted from my database and send it to you as
an Excel .xls file shortly.
Best Regards,
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: 31 December 2010 17:03
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Hi Barry.
Yes, you're absolutely correct. S/N 62, N527P based in Port Huron. The
current owner has been kind enough to scan in some of the performance
figures from the POH for me, but any additional info would be most useful.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325100#325100
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Thanks Jim.
Yes, MEP rating will be done on a Duchess. The geared engines are not ideal for
this kind of exercise, I've heard.
I haven't consummated the deal yet and I would very much like to do a pre-buy.
However, since the aircraft is out of the way in Michigan, it becomes a money
thing. I have to ferry it back, paying for the CFI fees, their travel and expenses
as well as getting a yearly policy (something I thought I could wait with
and just get a one off ferry insurance). I don't think I can also afford to fly
out an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses etc or I'm looking at another
$10.000 on top of the sale price. At some point it becomes cost prohibitive. If
I could find someone local that has some AC experience, that would be ideal.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325109#325109
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hi Adam,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Commanders. Although I live in
Farmington, NM now, I had N680RR, 680Fp tied down at Hawthorne, CA. (HHR)
for over 10 years. My maintenance work has always been done by Chris Miller
of Security Aviation with his right hand man Pat Carrie Jr.. I still fly
back to have them do my annual and other major work. Morris is your number
one source of information and does very good work, it's just that he is up
in Stockton, whereas Chris can drive over to SMO in case of emergency and is
only a 10 minute flight from SMO.
If the weather is decent, and a few loose ends can be tied up here in FMN
next week I will fly back to HHR, and will be in town for about a week. If
you want, call me (cell# 310.350.4594) and we can do lunch and I will
introduce you to Chris.
Although I had over a thousand hours in a Cessna Skymaster, (337C) the
insurance company still required 50 hours of dual in the pressurized
Commander with an 'approved flight instructor' (since the 520 is not
pressurized your flight training requirement will probably not be as
stringent). This training was with Hank Smull.....the guy is damn sharp! We
probably flew about 10 or 15 hours single engine out over the Channel
Islands up by Oxnard, so when the right engine died late one night on
takeoff at about 500 ft. AGL, I just did what Hank had shown me to do and it
was pretty much a non event. Because of the geared engines it is absolutely
imperative that you get training from an instructor who KNOWS geared
engines. Be sure that he really knows geared engines, and just doesn't
think that he knows them.
Again congratulations!
"Moe" Mills
N680RR
680Fp
--------------------------------------------------
From: "stratobee" <adam@adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 4:55 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
>
> Hi. New member here.
>
> Looks like I've just bought an old 520 from 1953. She's regularly flown,
> in annual and have her ducks in a row. She's based in MI, but will be
> flown back to Los Angeles where I live as soon as I can get her insured
> and inspected.
>
> Couple of questions:
>
> 1. Who would be able to potentially do a pre-buy inspection on the Port
> Huron/Detroit area for the 520?
>
> 2. If I and my more experienced CFII can't get insurance for the flight
> back, is there anyone in that area that has a lot of Commander hours
> (and/or ideally be a CFI) that could help me fly her back to LA VFR?
>
> 3. Who would be the best maintenance facility in the So Cal area for an
> old girl like this? I prefer a repair-and-fix approach rather than a
> replace-by-new approach to maintenance, if there's a choice.
>
> Thanks,
> A.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325062#325062
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hello Adam,
I am another who would recommend Morris Kernick/Commander Services, although
I should preface this by admitting that he is one of my closest friends now,
after a decade of Commanderism. His price is very reasonable, his toolkit
essentially one bag, and the money he will save you in the long run far
outweighs any expense for the prebuy.
If not for Morris, I would probably be another $100k+ into a Commander,
instead of enjoying my 500B the way I am.
Good luck,
/John
PS: And it won't cost you $10k. I think you would be pleased at Morris'
rates.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:10 AM
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Thanks Jim.
Yes, MEP rating will be done on a Duchess. The geared engines are not ideal
for this kind of exercise, I've heard.
I haven't consummated the deal yet and I would very much like to do a
pre-buy. However, since the aircraft is out of the way in Michigan, it
becomes a money thing. I have to ferry it back, paying for the CFI fees,
their travel and expenses as well as getting a yearly policy (something I
thought I could wait with and just get a one off ferry insurance). I don't
think I can also afford to fly out an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses
etc or I'm looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price. At some
point it becomes cost prohibitive. If I could find someone local that has
some AC experience, that would be ideal.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325109#325109
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Good Afternoon Barry,
Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to find out what
happened to serial number 24?
That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory because
I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was flying it.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:50:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman"
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Adam,
Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.
I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?
Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander historian.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
stratobee wrote:
> I don't think I can also afford to fly out an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses
etc or I'm looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price.
>
Adam,
I'm going to be brutally honest here (and I have no doubt you'll get
disagreement with what I'm about to say from others), but I say this
with your best interests in mind and with the background to know what
I'm talking about.
If you can't afford to pull $10k out of you pocket and set it on fire
without causing financial hardship after buying this airplane, you
should not buy it. A 520 is an unsupported antique complex airplane.
You can and should assume you'll need to throw more than $10k at it in
the first year of ownership. Over time, you may be able to become
knowledgeable enough to do quite a bit of work yourself and decrease
your maintenance costs substantially, but as long as you're going to pay
to have the airplane (well) maintained, it's going to cost real money.
That said, the 520 is a fantastic little airplane. It's the lightest of
the breed and has the best feel. If you know what you're getting in to
and can support the needs of such a classic, you'll probably really
enjoy it. It's always great to see a Commander end up with an owner who
cares for it properly and keeps it in good condition.
cheers,
Chris
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory
> because I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was
> flying it.
What chapter of the book will this story be in OB? :-)
I, for one, would love to hear it!
Chris
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Adam,
>From personal experience, I suggest an independent pre-buy is the best money you
will spend. The local Commander pro I hired for my pre-buy for 747H turned
out to not only be a friend of the seller, but had worked on the plane as well.
He had a vested interest, but it wasn't mine! He also performed an extensive
annual. So good in fact that the left engine made it 3 hours before it failed.
The right was minutes behind it!
In simple terms, pay the money up front or pay a lot more later! A guy like Morris
can give you a detailed plan to sort the bird out, and the priority of projects!
Good luck!
Craig
>From my iPhone 4!
On Dec 31, 2010, at 10:22 AM, "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Adam,
>
> I am another who would recommend Morris Kernick/Commander Services, although
> I should preface this by admitting that he is one of my closest friends now,
> after a decade of Commanderism. His price is very reasonable, his toolkit
> essentially one bag, and the money he will save you in the long run far
> outweighs any expense for the prebuy.
>
> If not for Morris, I would probably be another $100k+ into a Commander,
> instead of enjoying my 500B the way I am.
>
> Good luck,
>
> /John
>
> PS: And it won't cost you $10k. I think you would be pleased at Morris'
> rates.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:10 AM
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
>
>
> Thanks Jim.
>
> Yes, MEP rating will be done on a Duchess. The geared engines are not ideal
> for this kind of exercise, I've heard.
>
> I haven't consummated the deal yet and I would very much like to do a
> pre-buy. However, since the aircraft is out of the way in Michigan, it
> becomes a money thing. I have to ferry it back, paying for the CFI fees,
> their travel and expenses as well as getting a yearly policy (something I
> thought I could wait with and just get a one off ferry insurance). I don't
> think I can also afford to fly out an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses
> etc or I'm looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price. At some
> point it becomes cost prohibitive. If I could find someone local that has
> some AC experience, that would be ideal.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325109#325109
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Hi "Old Bob",
It will be all of 5 minutes 'work', so give me a few minutes to answer a few
more emails and I'll get an Excel .xls file to you.
Perhaps you could put together a Word .doc file on the "Dark and Stormy
Night" experience for me?
Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: 31 December 2010 18:27
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Good Afternoon Barry,
Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to find out what
happened to serial number 24?
That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory because
I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was flying it.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:50:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Adam,
Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.
I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?
Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander historian.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
Good Afternoon Chris,
Come on down to the Beech Party next Fall. Ask me abut it and you won't be
able to get me to stop talking! <G>
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/31/2010 2:17:31 P.M. Central Standard Time,
cschuerm@cox.net writes:
--> Commander-List message posted by: Chris <cschuerm@cox.net>
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory
> because I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was
> flying it.
What chapter of the book will this story be in OB? :-)
I, for one, would love to hear it!
Chris
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
I am based in Michigan and had a 500S for 4 years and 1000 hours.=0A=0AI ha
d 2 annuals done in Traverse City at Cherry Capital Aviation.- The owner
of =0Athe FBO is Kent and his number is 231 941-1740.=0A=0AIt wasn't cheap.
- The rates may sound reasonable BUT what they can find is =0Apurely subj
ective and with the tremendous decrease in general aviation, the =0Aremaini
ng service areas are using less pilots to fill their buckets and with a =0A
50+ year old aircraft the sky is the limit.=0A=0AIf you are paying a very r
easonable price for the airplane, remember that is =0Ajust the price of adm
ission.- I found that, unless you are married or have a =0Apersonal relat
ionship with your mechanic the costs are astronomical.=0A=0AI went from $8-
9K annuals to $15-25K annuals when I lost my personal mechanic.- =0AThe f
irst year of insurance for my 500S with $185K hull value was $7500 and I
=0Ahad 200+ hours in an Apache.- The rate never got lower than $4500.=0A
=0AI do feel that the Twin Commander is the finest twin a general aviation
pilot =0Awill ever fly but it is not for the faint of heart financially.=0A
=0ADon Falik=0A=0AJohn Towner in Kansas is a Twin Commander guru as he main
tains a fleet of 35 of =0Athem.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________________
___=0AFrom: White_rhino_ps <white_rhino_ps@yahoo.com>=0ATo: "commander-list
@matronics.com" <commander-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Fri, December 31, 20
10 3:30:00 PM=0ASubject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 qu
hino_ps@yahoo.com>=0A=0AAdam,=0A=0A>From personal experience, I suggest an
independent pre-buy is the best money you =0A>will spend. The local Command
er pro I hired for my pre-buy for 747H turned out =0A>to not only be a frie
nd of the seller, but had worked on the plane as well. He =0A>had a vested
- interest, but it wasn't mine!- He also performed an extensive =0A>ann
ual. So good in fact that the left engine made it- 3 hours before it fail
ed. =0A>The right was minutes behind it!=0A=0AIn simple terms, pay the mone
y up front or pay a lot more later!- A guy like =0AMorris can give you a
detailed plan to sort the bird out, and the priority of =0Aprojects!=0A=0AG
ood luck!=0A=0ACraig=0A=0A>From my iPhone 4!=0A=0AOn Dec 31, 2010, at 10:22
AM, "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com> wrote:=0A=0A> --> Commander-List m
essage posted by: "John Vormbaum" <john@vormbaum.com>=0A> =0A> Hello Adam,
=0A> =0A> I am another who would recommend Morris Kernick/Commander Service
s, although=0A> I should preface this by admitting that he is one of my clo
sest friends now,=0A> after a decade of Commanderism. His price is very rea
sonable, his toolkit=0A> essentially one bag, and the money he will save yo
u in the long run far=0A> outweighs any expense for the prebuy. =0A> =0A> I
f not for Morris, I would probably be another $100k+ into a Commander,=0A>
instead of enjoying my 500B the way I am.=0A> =0A> Good luck,=0A> =0A> /Joh
n=0A> =0A> PS: And it won't cost you $10k. I think you would be pleased at
Morris'=0A> rates.=0A> =0A> -----Original Message-----=0A> From: owner-comm
ander-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@mat
ronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee=0A> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 10:1
0 AM=0A> To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A> Subject: Commander-List: Re:
Commander 520 from 1953 questions.=0A> =0A> --> Commander-List message post
ed by: "stratobee" <adam@adamfrisch.com>=0A> =0A> Thanks Jim.=0A> =0A> Yes,
MEP rating will be done on a Duchess. The geared engines are not ideal=0A>
for this kind of exercise, I've heard.=0A> =0A> I haven't consummated the
deal yet and I would very much like to do a=0A> pre-buy. However, since the
aircraft is out of the way in Michigan, it=0A> becomes a money thing. I ha
ve to ferry it back, paying for the CFI fees,=0A> their travel and expenses
as well as getting a yearly policy (something I=0A> thought I could wait w
ith and just get a one off ferry insurance). I don't=0A> think I can also a
fford to fly out- an experienced A&P, his tools, expenses=0A> etc or I'm
looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price. At some=0A> point it b
ecomes cost prohibitive. If I could find someone local that has=0A> some AC
experience, that would be ideal.=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic o
nline here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=325109#3
25109=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Matt Dralle, L
=======================
Message 22
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| Subject: | Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
For me, too. It sounds like one of those worthy stories one would want to
keep.
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Hi "Old Bob",
It will be all of 5 minutes 'work', so give me a few minutes to answer a few
more emails and I'll get an Excel .xls file to you.
Perhaps you could put together a Word .doc file on the "Dark and Stormy
Night" experience for me?
Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BobsV35B@aol.com
Sent: 31 December 2010 18:27
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
Good Afternoon Barry,
Just out of curiosity, how much trouble would it be to find out what
happened to serial number 24?
That was the first Commander I ever flew and it sticks in my memory because
I had a major "Dark And Stormy Night" experience when I was flying it.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
In a message dated 12/31/2010 9:50:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes:
<barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk>
Hi Adam,
Welcome, both to the chatlist and as a Commander owner.
I'm guessing that you bought s/n 62, N527P?
Let me know and I'll get the history of it to you.
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
Aero Commander historian.
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
WELL SAID CHRIS (Happy new year) Adam, I love all Commanders and will mo
st likely always have one, but, as Chris and others have said these old ma
sterpieces are not for the weak of wallet. Just so you reality check doesn
't bounce. If the propellers are the original (probably are) and require
the on going inspection (as per the AD) the odds are very high (almost ce
rtain) that you will need to replace them at some point. New they cost ab
out 30K, EACH! There are some options, but the least expensive would cost
10K or more. The airplane has five fuel cells. If they are in good shap
e (probably are) Great! If they need replaced, they cost about $1500 each
, not installed. Replacing all five (very difficult to replace only one
or two unless they are nearly new) will cost about 10K with labor. A pre
buy wont be cheap, unless you don't do one. I love these airplanes and it
warms my heat to see them remain in service and in good hands, but you ne
ed to understand the financial commitment before you buy. Good luck and
I hope you will do it right and then become an owner . jb 360-903-6901
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris <cschuerm@cox.net>
Sent: Fri, Dec 31, 2010 12:12 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions.
stratobee wrote:
> I don't think I can also afford to fly out an experienced A&P, his tools
, expenses etc or I'm looking at another $10.000 on top of the sale price.
> Adam,
I'm going to be brutally honest here (and I have no doubt you'll get disag
reement with what I'm about to say from others), but I say this with your
best interests in mind and with the background to know what I'm talking
about.
If you can't afford to pull $10k out of you pocket and set it on fire with
out causing financial hardship after buying this airplane, you should not
buy it. A 520 is an unsupported antique complex airplane. You can and sho
uld assume you'll need to throw more than $10k at it in the first year of
ownership. Over time, you may be able to become knowledgeable enough to
do quite a bit of work yourself and decrease your maintenance costs subst
antially, but as long as you're going to pay to have the airplane (well)
maintained, it's going to cost real money.
That said, the 520 is a fantastic little airplane. It's the lightest of th
e breed and has the best feel. If you know what you're getting in to and
can support the needs of such a classic, you'll probably really enjoy it.
It's always great to see a Commander end up with an owner who cares for
it properly and keeps it in good condition.
cheers,
Chris
========================
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Commander 520 from 1953 questions. |
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Afternoon Chris,
> Come on down to the Beech Party next Fall. Ask me abut it and you
> won't be able to get me to stop talking! <G>
I *really* hope to make it Bob. Killed me to not be able to make the
last one, but I've been working 100 hour weeks pretty much all year.
One must seize such opportunities when they present themselves, but I'm
sure hoping to have at least a few weekends off in 2011 !
cheers and happy new years to you and your family.
Chris
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