Today's Message Index:
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1. 06:17 AM - Replacing seats.. (stratobee)
2. 08:10 AM - Re: Replacing seats.. (Moe Mills)
3. 04:17 PM - Re: Replacing seats.. (Chris)
4. 04:37 PM - Re: Replacing seats.. (stratobee)
5. 04:53 PM - Re: Replacing seats.. (Tylor Hall)
6. 05:36 PM - Re: Replacing seats.. (stratobee)
7. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Replacing seats.. (yourtcfg@aol.com)
8. 07:16 PM - Re: Re: Replacing seats.. (Russell Legg)
9. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Replacing seats.. (Brock Lorber)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Replacing seats.. |
Hi.
One of my goals in the future is to lighten my aircraft and clean her up significantly.
One of the things I want to do is to replace the seats for something better and
lighter. The low backrest and the 50's midriff seat belt I would like to replace
for a harness and something more snug and safe. So I was looking at these
super light, ultra strong car racing seats. What are the legalities of bolting
those onto the sliding frame of the seats in there now?
Is this a modification I could do, or do seats have to be certified and all the
rigmarole involved with that? 337?
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339742#339742
Message 2
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| Subject: | Replacing seats.. |
Adam=2C
Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation=2C and other t
han new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty much stuck with
what you have=2C unless of course you want to go "Experimental" and then i
nsurance is about impossible.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
> Subject: Commander-List: Replacing seats..
> From: adam@adamfrisch.com
> Date: Fri=2C 13 May 2011 06:14:41 -0700
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
>
>
> Hi.
>
> One of my goals in the future is to lighten my aircraft and clean her up
significantly.
>
> One of the things I want to do is to replace the seats for something bett
er and lighter. The low backrest and the 50's midriff seat belt I would lik
e to replace for a harness and something more snug and safe. So I was looki
ng at these super light=2C ultra strong car racing seats. What are the lega
lities of bolting those onto the sliding frame of the seats in there now?
>
> Is this a modification I could do=2C or do seats have to be certified and
all the rigmarole involved with that? 337?
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339742#339742
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
Moe Mills wrote:
>
> Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation, and
> other than new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty
> much stuck with what you have, unless of course you want to go
> "Experimental" and then insurance is about impossible.
Sorry, but you can't just "go experimental" on a certified aircraft.
You can re license as "experimental R&D" or "experimental exhibition",
but either effectively renders the aircraft useless for general
operation. Both categories come with extreme operational limitations.
Totally different thing than "experimental, amateur built" where you can
do pretty much anything you want.
chris
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
How about getting a one-off STC? It's nuts that they would prohibit something that's
much safer than the old seats that are in there now.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339806#339806
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
Adam,
Commander-aero.com has the cross the shoulder seat belts as a field approval.
I have seen dual over shoulder seat belts in some aircraft like the 500B that are
used by the forest service. That too may be a field approval and can be done.
Recovering the seats with the new foam goes a long way to contort.
Tylor Hall
On May 13, 2011, at 5:15 PM, Chris wrote:
>
> Moe Mills wrote:
>>
>> Looked around myself several years ago at the seat situation, and other than
new upholstry (from a legal standpoint) you are pretty much stuck with what
you have, unless of course you want to go "Experimental" and then insurance is
about impossible.
>
> Sorry, but you can't just "go experimental" on a certified aircraft. You can
re license as "experimental R&D" or "experimental exhibition", but either effectively
renders the aircraft useless for general operation. Both categories
come with extreme operational limitations. Totally different thing than "experimental,
amateur built" where you can do pretty much anything you want.
>
> chris
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
Actually, it seems like the FAA have agreed that shoulder harnesses are a safety
benefit and can be allowed as minor modification on aircrafts made before 1978.
http://www.121five.com/admin/FeatureArticles/Owner%20Performed%20Aircraft%20Maintenance.pdf
It states that as long as no alteration to the structure is done (drilling, welding)
then it's OK. In my case the belts attach to the bottom seat structure itself
and are not in any way attached to the airframe, so adding a harness using
the same attachment points should be possible.
That just leaves the seat.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339810#339810
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
HI ADAM.Welome to the wonderful world of the FAA, where their motto "We're
not happy, until your not happy" prevails. You will soon find out that
the FAA is nothing about safety, they are all about control!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: stratobee <adam@adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Fri, May 13, 2011 5:33 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Re: Replacing seats..
Actually, it seems like the FAA have agreed that shoulder harnesses are a
safety
enefit and can be allowed as minor modification on aircrafts made before
1978.
http://www.121five.com/admin/FeatureArticles/Owner%20Performed%20Aircraft%
20Maintenance.pdf
It states that as long as no alteration to the structure is done (drilling
,
elding) then it's OK. In my case the belts attach to the bottom seat struc
ture
tself and are not in any way attached to the airframe, so adding a harness
sing the same attachment points should be possible.
That just leaves the seat.
--------
dam
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339810#339810
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
Hi Adam,
Buddy Windham (lurking on this list), had some really nice mods carried out on
the pilot seats in his 560E...higher backs etc etc.
He may be able to recall what processes he went through to get those certified
(I think through Commander Aero at Dayton).
Captain Windham...?
Cheers
Russell
On 14/05/2011, at 9:05 AM, stratobee wrote:
>
> How about getting a one-off STC? It's nuts that they would prohibit something
that's much safer than the old seats that are in there now.
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339806#339806
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Replacing seats.. |
We got a field approval for 400CH (or whatever the new n-number is) for
4-point harnesses on the front two seats. They consisted of a lap-belt
and a centrifugal lock on the shoulder belts that hid in the pocket on
the seat back. Very comfortable, useable, and clean.
Unfortunately, I don't have the manufacturer or any of the paperwork
anymore.
AFA the FAA rules preventing safety...shocking, isn't it?
Brock
stratobee wrote:
>
> Actually, it seems like the FAA have agreed that shoulder harnesses are a safety
benefit and can be allowed as minor modification on aircrafts made before
1978.
>
> http://www.121five.com/admin/FeatureArticles/Owner%20Performed%20Aircraft%20Maintenance.pdf
>
> It states that as long as no alteration to the structure is done (drilling, welding)
then it's OK. In my case the belts attach to the bottom seat structure
itself and are not in any way attached to the airframe, so adding a harness using
the same attachment points should be possible.
>
> That just leaves the seat.
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=339810#339810
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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