---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/30/11: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:52 PM - Considering a 500S.... (ratherbflying) 2. 07:41 PM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Jmgfallstrom) 3. 08:10 PM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Donald Falik) 4. 10:54 PM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (cybersuperstore) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:51 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... From: "ratherbflying" I am considering a mid 70s 500S as my next aircraft. It will be used purely for personal/family useno write offs. My mission is 1) Play (I enjoy flying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are 5500 to 11,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl. I have several questions for the group: Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not include fixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states $275.40 per hour which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if the 45 is not correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed light on what you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained Shrike in excellent condition? What is the market energy for a piston Twin Commander and specifically for a Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold. Is it a cult airplane with limited prospects for buyers? For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how reliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP Lycs or other? Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light twins such as Baron or Seneca or other? Any issue with parts availabilitywhat happens if you encounter hangar rash on a tail, etc? A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the Shrike or 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time, stupid pilot tricks are usually the reason for accidents, is the Shrike or 500 better or worse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are there any other areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other light twins? Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned above). My typical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff. Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's? I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all questions is appreciatedand thank you in advance! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... From: Jmgfallstrom Dear RBF, As to any well maintained post 1958 500 piston Commander- For safety and fo rgiveness - for beauty and view - for cost and value in reference to the 4 former attributes mentioned herein - these aircraft should be selling for t wice what the current market offers them up for - they are a religious expe rience to fly - and a blessing to land In re any comparable twin aircraft - with the exception of the Douglas DC-3 - none exist - jg -----Original Message----- From: ratherbflying Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 6:53 pm Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... om> I am considering a mid 70=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s 500S as my next aircraft. It will be used purely or personal/family use=C3=A2=C2=C2no write offs. My =C3=A2=C2=C2 =9Cmission=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D is 1) Play (I enjoy lying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are 550 0 to 1,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl. I have several questions for the group: Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not include ixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states $275.40 per our which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if the 4 5 is ot correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed light on hat you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained Shrik e in xcellent condition? What is the market =C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cenergy=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D for a piston Twin Commander and specifically for Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold. Is it a =C2=C2=9Ccult=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D airplane with limited prospects for buye rs? For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how eliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP Lyc=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s or other? Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light twin s uch as Baron or Seneca or other? Any issue with parts availability=C3=A2=C2=C2what happens if you enco unter hangar rash on tail, etc=C3=A2=C2=C2? A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the Shr ike r 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time, =C3=A2=C2 =C2=9Cstupid pilot ricks=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D are usually the reason for accidents, is the Shrike or 500 better or orse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are there any ther areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other light wins? Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned above). My ypical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff. Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's? I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all questi ons s appreciated=C3=A2=C2=C2and thank you in advance! ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534 -= - The Commander-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:31 PM PST US From: Donald Falik Subject: Re: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... Dear RBF,=0A=0AThis couldn't have been said any more eloquently.=0A=0AAll I can add is a big AMEN.=0A=0AI flew a 1970 500S for 4 years and 1000 hours. - It flys and lands like a heavy =0A172.- It is very forgiving and abso lutely no surprises in flight =0Acharacteristics.- The lycs 540's perform ed and held up well for a ham fisted =0Apilot like me.- The geared engine s wouldn't have survived a single flight in my =0Ahands.=0A=0AThe only nega tive is one has to be related to the mechanic either by marriage or =0Afrie ndship as the maintenance, even on a well maintained one can kill the =0Are ligious experience.- One cannot be faint of heart financially.=0A=0AFuel burn was a consistent 34 gal./hr.- I made the supreme mistake of putting a =0Ahobby (the 500S) on a spreadsheet and $500/hr. less fuel is very reali stic.=0A=0AAs a side note.- My former 500S is again for sale by the same broker that sold =0Ait a year ago.- And, yes, I sold it for 1/2 of what i t was worth but the last 2 =0Aannuals were $22K followed by $14K.=0A=0ANow I puddle along in my "57 Apache at 30% less speed and and nearly 1/3 the =0Acost but this time I'm not counting.=0A=0ADon=0A=0A=0A__________________ ______________=0AFrom: Jmgfallstrom =0ATo: commander- list@matronics.com=0ASent: Thu, June 30, 2011 10:38:42 PM=0ASubject: Re: Co mmander-List: Considering a 500S....=0A=0ADear RBF,=0A=0A=0AAs to any well maintained post 1958 500 piston Commander- For safety and =0Aforgiveness - for beauty and view - for cost and value in reference to the 4 =0Aformer at tributes mentioned herein - these aircraft should be selling for twice =0Aw hat the current market offers them up for - they are a religious experience to =0Afly - and a blessing to land=0A=0AIn re any comparable twin aircraft - with the exception of the Douglas DC-3 - =0Anone exist - jg=0A=0A=0A=0A -=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: ratherbflying =0ATo: commander-list =0ASent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 6:53 pm=0ASubject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....=0A ucks.com> =0AI am considering a mid 70s 500S as my next aircraft. It will be used purely =0Afor personal/family useno write offs. My mission is 1) Play (I enjoy =0Aflying!), and 2) regular trips of 22 9, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are 5500 to =0A11,000ft and elevations f rom SL to 4415msl. I have several questions for the =0Agroup: Conkli n and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not =0Ainclude fixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states =0A$275 .40 per hour which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel =0Aconsum ption if the 45 is not correct? Related to the aforementioned question, =0Acan anyone shed light on what you experience for variable operating co sts for =0Aa well maintained Shrike in excellent condition? What is t he market =0Aenergy for a piston Twin Commander and specifically for a Shrike? I ask, =0Asince at some point down the road, it will be resold. Is it a cult =0Aairplane with limited prospects for buyers? For a currently well maintained =0AShrike with no deferred maintenance, ho w reliable are the systems, i.e. =0Ahydraulics, the 290HP Lycs or othe r? Can anyone share the experience of =0Aowning a 500 series vs. othe r light twins such as Baron or Seneca or other? =0AAny issue with par ts availabilitywhat happens if you encounter hangar rash on =0Aa ta il, etc? A difficult question, but is there any way to compare t he =0Asafety of the Shrike or 500X with other light twins? Realizing tha t 80% of =0Athe time, stupid pilot tricks are usually the reason fo r accidents, is the =0AShrike or 500 better or worse than other light twi ns, i.e. say an engine =0Afailure on TO or are there any other areas wher e the plane will bite or where =0Ait is better than other light twins? Any issues with flying out of higher =0Aelevation airports (mentioned abo ve). My typical payload is 500 lbs of people =0Aand stuff. Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's? I =0Arealize I have aske d a lot of questions, but answers to any or all questions =0Ais appreciat edand thank you in advance! Read this topic online here: =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534 " =0Atarget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List =0Ap://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ======================== _ == =0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:52 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... I operated my straight 500 out of Wonderboom in South Africa (FAWB) which is at 4100' ASL on a regular basis. I also owned a Twin Comanche on which I had an engine failure on takeoff which turned out to be a non-event, having flown a circuit and returned for landing. I never had an engine failure on the 500, but I did check it's single engine capability at 7,000' during some single engine workouts and it held altitude with about 100 gals and two people on board. If loaded to the max at high-altitude airports, I'd fly it like a single with a bit of additional options using the live motor to extend my glide a little bit if needed, but otherwise you should be fine provided you stay current and fluent on the emergency procedures. You must be like a maestro and let your hands dance over the controls when there is no time to recite poetry, if you know what I mean. My dream ship has always been a Shrike and one day I'll be able to afford one provided it has turbo normalization. I flew a 680FP for a couple of hours and enjoyed it tremendously, however, it always felt like I married the wrong women longing for the Shrike, in spite of the 680's wild performance with the geared motors. I always imagine a Shrike with 350's and turbo's (Merlin?) and her shaking with raw power in a climb. My straight 500 had a vibration in the climb that made me believe that it's raw power that exudes through her body, but I knew it was something out of balance and if I imagined an additional 1,000 feet per minute to her climb like a not-so-homesick-angel she was. Oh, well. It was a glorious time, especially climbing out of a stratus layer of fog into a very early morning climbout, seeing a sunrise that no other earth-bound soul could see. It made me feel special and it was as if I could hear ZS-CLZ grown with pleasure knowing that her utmost effort gave me emmense pleasure. She enjoyed it, too. Sigh. Nico -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ratherbflying Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:50 PM Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S.... --> I am considering a mid 70s 500S as my next aircraft. It will be used purely for personal/family useno write offs. My mission is 1) Play (I enjoy flying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are 5500 to 11,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl. I have several questions for the group: Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not include fixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states $275.40 per hour which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if the 45 is not correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed light on what you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained Shrike in excellent condition? What is the market energy for a piston Twin Commander and specifically for a Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold. Is it a cult airplane with limited prospects for buyers? For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how reliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP Lycs or other? Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light twins such as Baron or Seneca or other? Any issue with parts availabilitywhat happens if you encounter hangar rash on a tail, etc? A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the Shrike or 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time, stupid pilot tricks are usually the reason for accidents, is the Shrike or 500 better or worse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are there any other areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other light twins? Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned above). My typical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff. Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's? I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all questions is appreciatedand thank you in advance! Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.