Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:04 AM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Keith S. Gordon)
2. 07:17 AM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Cate Chagnot)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Andrew & Bridget Watson)
4. 10:06 AM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (stratobee)
5. 10:43 AM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (Jmgfallstrom)
6. 10:48 AM - Re: Re: Considering a 500S.... (Moe Mills)
7. 12:51 PM - Re: Considering a 500S.... (stratobee)
8. 11:02 PM - Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
9. 11:04 PM - Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
Since the spiritual and erotic aspect of Commander ownership is being cove
red so well, I'm going to take a different approach.
You're obviously comparing the Commander to its competition. When doing
so, ask the following questions:
Which design has the best one engine inoperative handling?
Which design allows access to ALL the fuel in an O.E.I. scenario?
Which design's emergency gear extension procedure is the same as normal ge
ar extension?
Which design would you want to shoot an ILS in while doing an emergency ge
ar extension?
Which design has its C.G. move FORWARD (the safer C.G. shift) with fuel bu
rn ?
Oh - and don't be bamboozled by rate of climb with one engine inoperative.
Note that they all have about the same O.E.I. climb gradient when you lo
ok at R.O.C. at their respective Vyse.
The only thing that is going to help any piston airplane with high and hot
take-off performance is turbo normalization, boosting, or super charging.
Nico's philosophy on high/hot departures is spot on.
I will not speak to the cost of operation; it's nothing a sane man would
do. They're all bloody expensive and all of the piston twins are looking
at "aging aircraft" issues that level the playing field so go for handli
ng qualities in normal and abnormal flight regimes.
I've tossed some questions at you so you can, in turn, flip them on the sa
lesmen trying to sell you other products. See what answers you get.
I was an AeroStar demo pilot for a number of years (B.C. -- Before Command
er) and I demo'd against Beech, Piper and Cessna products. I always won.
It was after that stint that I worked backwards along the Ted Smith time
line and came to understand his design philosophy through the Aero Comman
der line.
It's utterly unique in the world of production aircraft.
Keith S. Gordon
aka Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: cybersuperstore <nico@cybersuperstore.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 10:46 pm
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
ore.com>
I operated my straight 500 out of Wonderboom in South Africa (FAWB) which
is at
4100' ASL on a regular basis. I also owned a Twin Comanche on which I had
an
engine failure on takeoff which turned out to be a non-event, having flown
a
circuit and returned for landing. I never had an engine failure on the 500
, but
I did check it's single engine capability at 7,000' during some single eng
ine
workouts and it held altitude with about 100 gals and two people on board.
If loaded to the max at high-altitude airports, I'd fly it like a single
with a
bit of additional options using the live motor to extend my glide a little
bit
if needed, but otherwise you should be fine provided you stay current and
fluent
on the emergency procedures. You must be like a maestro and let your hands
dance
over the controls when there is no time to recite poetry, if you know what
I
mean.
My dream ship has always been a Shrike and one day I'll be able to afford
one
provided it has turbo normalization. I flew a 680FP for a couple of hours
and
enjoyed it tremendously, however, it always felt like I married the wrong
women
longing for the Shrike, in spite of the 680's wild performance with the ge
ared
motors.
I always imagine a Shrike with 350's and turbo's (Merlin?) and her shaking
with
raw power in a climb. My straight 500 had a vibration in the climb that ma
de me
believe that it's raw power that exudes through her body, but I knew it wa
s
something out of balance and if I imagined an additional 1,000 feet per mi
nute
to her climb like a not-so-homesick-angel she was.
Oh, well. It was a glorious time, especially climbing out of a stratus lay
er of
fog into a very early morning climbout, seeing a sunrise that no other
earth-bound soul could see. It made me feel special and it was as if I cou
ld
hear ZS-CLZ grown with pleasure knowing that her utmost effort gave me emm
ense
pleasure. She enjoyed it, too.
Sigh.
Nico
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-li
st-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of ratherbflying
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 3:50 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
--> <bobl@myschoolbucks.com>
I am considering a mid 70=C3=A2=82=AC=84=A2s 500S as my next aircraf
t. It will be used purely
for personal/family use=C3=A2=82=AC=C2no write offs. My =C3=A2
=82=AC=C5=93mission=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D is 1) Play (I enjoy
flying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are
5500 to
11,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl.
I have several questions for the group:
Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not includ
e
fixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states $275.4
0 per
hour which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if the
45 is
not correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed ligh
t on
what you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained Shr
ike in
excellent condition?
What is the market =C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93energy=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D for a
piston Twin Commander and specifically for
a Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold.
Is it a
=C3=A2=82=AC=C5=93cult=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D airplane with limited prosp
ects for buyers?
For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how
reliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP Lyc=C3=A2=82=AC
=84=A2s or other?
Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light twi
ns
such as Baron or Seneca or other?
Any issue with parts availability=C3=A2=82=AC=C2what happens if you
encounter hangar rash on
a tail, etc=C3=A2=82=AC=C2?
A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the Sh
rike
or 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time, =C3=A2
=82=AC=C5=93stupid pilot
tricks=C3=A2=82=AC=C2=9D are usually the reason for accidents, is the
Shrike or 500 better or
worse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are ther
e any
other areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other lig
ht
twins?
Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned above).
My
typical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff.
Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's?
I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all quest
ions
is appreciated=C3=A2=82=AC=C2and thank you in advance!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
Are you beginning to see a pattern here? Owning an Aero Commander is definitely
a cult......
ALL HAIL TED SMITH! :-)
--------
Cate
N4278S 680E
Skywagon N180PK
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344573#344573
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
I have not flown a Shrike let alone owned one, but offer this: what
other business-class piston twin would you see this sort of
both-engines-out performance in the hands of a master pilot?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZBcapxGHjE&feature=related
There may be others, but I haven't seen any other pilot perform this
sort of routine, and I haven't seen Bob Hoover perform his routine in
any other business-class piston twin.
You're right JG, there is no comparison, although I offer my opinion
that comparing the Twin Commander to the Dak is a little unfair--to both
aircraft.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jmgfallstrom
To: commander-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
Dear RBF,
As to any well maintained post 1958 500 piston Commander- For safety
and forgiveness - for beauty and view - for cost and value in reference
to the 4 former attributes mentioned herein - these aircraft should be
selling for twice what the current market offers them up for - they are
a religious experience to fly - and a blessing to land
In re any comparable twin aircraft - with the exception of the Douglas
DC-3 - none exist - jg
-----Original Message-----
From: ratherbflying <bobl@myschoolbucks.com>
To: commander-list <commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 6:53 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
<bobl@myschoolbucks.com>
I am considering a mid 70=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s 500S as my next aircraft.
It will be used purely
for personal/family use=C3=A2=C2=C2no write offs. My
=C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cmission=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D is 1) Play (I enjoy
flying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are
5500 to
11,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl.
I have several questions for the group:
Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not
include
fixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states
$275.40 per
hour which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if
the 45 is
not correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed
light on
what you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained
Shrike in
excellent condition?
What is the market =C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cenergy=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D for a
piston Twin Commander and specifically for
a Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold.
Is it a
=C3=A2=C2=C2=9Ccult=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D airplane with limited prospects
for buyers?
For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how
reliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP
Lyc=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s or other?
Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light
twins
such as Baron or Seneca or other?
Any issue with parts availability=C3=A2=C2=C2what happens if you
encounter hangar rash on
a tail, etc=C3=A2=C2=C2?
A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the
Shrike
or 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time,
=C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cstupid pilot
tricks=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D are usually the reason for accidents, is the
Shrike or 500 better or
worse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are
there any
other areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other
light
twins?
Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned
above). My
typical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff.
Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's?
I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all
questions
is appreciated=C3=A2=C2=C2and thank you in advance!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
I'm a brand new owner so have no advice to give, except maybe a general approach
or philosophy to aircraft ownership:
I only count the fuel and the oil as hourly costs. The rest aren't really a function
of flying hours and are hard to quantify. The annual will cost pretty much
the same if it's been sitting on the ramp for a year or if it's flown (give
or take). Same with the insurance. As for the engine and or systems overhaul,
I count them as costs that come with aircraft ownership - it's the price I pay
to have a hobby. This way of thinking tricks me into thinking this is a rather
affordable little endeavour (when we all know it's utter madness). At about
$150/hr in fuel and oil doesn't sound so bad and all of a sudden that little
trip to get a hamburger sounds quite affordable.
If reality is to hard to bear, then be unrealistic! :D
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344596#344596
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
My Dear Watson -
During JFK's presidency he once hosted a dinner of the world's most accompl
ished academics, scholars, Nobel winners, intelligentsia, scientists and ph
ilosophers etc, etc - I do not remember now which formal dining room in the
White house they were holding the dinner.
After their meal which lasted several hours , and most interesting discours
e one would presume, there was a moment of natural silence as they sipped t
heir after dinner libations and smoked no doubt Cuban cigars - that JFK too
k that moment of silence to observe to all of the guests attention the foll
owing;
I may be paraphrasing (but not by much) - JFK looked around the room as sai
d " . . . I do not suppose that in the history of the the White House in g
eneral and to this dining room specifically, has there ever been so much ra
w intelligence, cerebral horsepower and genius in aggregate.'
He then paused a moment, the room remained silent as they pondered his obse
rvation. JFK then added: ". . . with perhaps the one exception as to when
Thomas Jefferson dined ALONE."
It was with this same spirit that I made the comparative statement with the
Dakota and the Aero Commander 500 et al.
All my best,
JG
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew & Bridget Watson <andrew.bridget@telus.net>
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
I have not flown a Shrike let alone owned one, but offer this: what other b
usiness-class piston twin would you see this sort of both-engines-out perfo
rmance in the hands of a master pilot? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZB
capxGHjE&feature=related
There may be others, but I haven't seen any other pilot perform this sort o
f routine, and I haven't seen Bob Hoover perform his routine in any other b
usiness-class piston twin.
You're right JG, there is no comparison, although I offer my opinion that c
omparing the Twin Commander to the Dak is a little unfair--to both aircraft
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jmgfallstrom
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
Dear RBF,
As to any well maintained post 1958 500 piston Commander- For safety and fo
rgiveness - for beauty and view - for cost and value in reference to the 4
former attributes mentioned herein - these aircraft should be selling for t
wice what the current market offers them up for - they are a religious expe
rience to fly - and a blessing to land
In re any comparable twin aircraft - with the exception of the Douglas DC-3
- none exist - jg
-----Original Message-----
From: ratherbflying <bobl@myschoolbucks.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2011 6:53 pm
Subject: Commander-List: Considering a 500S....
om>
I am considering a mid 70=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s 500S as my next aircraft. It
will be used purely
or personal/family use=C3=A2=C2=C2no write offs. My =C3=A2=C2=C2
=9Cmission=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D is 1) Play (I enjoy
lying!), and 2) regular trips of 229, 322, and 83nm. Field lengths are 550
0 to
1,000ft and elevations from SL to 4415msl.
I have several questions for the group:
Conklin and de Decker states $521 per hour variable costs (does not include
ixed costs) based upon 131 hours per year. Note: the fuel states $275.40
per
our which equals 45gph? What do you use for block fuel consumption if the 4
5 is
ot correct? Related to the aforementioned question, can anyone shed light
on
hat you experience for variable operating costs for a well maintained Shrik
e in
xcellent condition?
What is the market =C3=A2=C2=C2=9Cenergy=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D for a piston
Twin Commander and specifically for
Shrike? I ask, since at some point down the road, it will be resold. Is
it a
=C2=C2=9Ccult=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D airplane with limited prospects for buye
rs?
For a currently well maintained Shrike with no deferred maintenance, how
eliable are the systems, i.e. hydraulics, the 290HP Lyc=C3=A2=C2=C2=99s
or other?
Can anyone share the experience of owning a 500 series vs. other light twin
s
uch as Baron or Seneca or other?
Any issue with parts availability=C3=A2=C2=C2what happens if you enco
unter hangar rash on
tail, etc=C3=A2=C2=C2?
A difficult question, but is there any way to compare the safety of the Shr
ike
r 500X with other light twins? Realizing that 80% of the time, =C3=A2=C2
=C2=9Cstupid pilot
ricks=C3=A2=C2=C2=9D are usually the reason for accidents, is the Shrike
or 500 better or
orse than other light twins, i.e. say an engine failure on TO or are there
any
ther areas where the plane will bite or where it is better than other light
wins?
Any issues with flying out of higher elevation airports (mentioned above).
My
ypical payload is 500 lbs of people and stuff.
Any other thoughts...what you like most about the 500's?
I realize I have asked a lot of questions, but answers to any or all questi
ons
s appreciated=C3=A2=C2=C2and thank you in advance!
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344534#344534
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
://forums.matronics.com
lank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
ref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-= - The Commander-List Email Forum -
-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
Adam=2C
What is your fuel burn pe hour? How much are you paying for 100LL? Althou
gh 100LL.com shows the average cost at $ 6.02 here in the southwest=2C I se
em to pay closer to $ 5.50 at the places where I fly to. $ 150.00 pe
r hour for fuel and oil seems real low. I realize that a 680Fp is the fuel
hog of the piston commanders=2C however=2C my fuel costs are between $ 300
.00 and $ 375.00 per hour=2C depending on where I fill up at and operating
coditions. Also=2C shouldn't set asides fro engine TBO=2C prop TBO=2C heat
er TBO=2C wing spar inspections and other items with a set life be included
as hourly costs? The more we fly=2C the sooner these big ticket costs pop
up=2C however the fixed costs items such as insurance and hanger rent get
less expensive per hour.
Moe Mills
N680RR
680Fp
> Subject: Commander-List: Re: Considering a 500S....
> From: adam@adamfrisch.com
> Date: Fri=2C 1 Jul 2011 10:04:05 -0700
> To: commander-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I'm a brand new owner so have no advice to give=2C except maybe a general
approach or philosophy to aircraft ownership:
>
> I only count the fuel and the oil as hourly costs. The rest aren't really
a function of flying hours and are hard to quantify. The annual will cost
pretty much the same if it's been sitting on the ramp for a year or if it's
flown (give or take). Same with the insurance. As for the engine and or sy
stems overhaul=2C I count them as costs that come with aircraft ownership -
it's the price I pay to have a hobby. This way of thinking tricks me into
thinking this is a rather affordable little endeavour (when we all know it'
s utter madness). At about $150/hr in fuel and oil doesn't sound so bad and
all of a sudden that little trip to get a hamburger sounds quite affordabl
e.
>
> If reality is to hard to bear=2C then be unrealistic! :D
>
> --------
> Adam
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344596#344596
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Considering a 500S.... |
Moe, I've just finished a 17hr tour of the north west - my first real flying on
my own - so have some fresh numbers. My fuel burn was around 29gph when I stayed
low, but can be forced down to 23-25gph up high. It's a little tricky to gage
as the tanks transfer fuel and most FBO guys don't have the time to spend
15 minutes refuelling them. It's easier when you can do it yourself, but even
I sometimes had to give up on those last gallons.
The above numbers are at 20-22" and 2500-2600 rpm, so pretty throttled back. She
showed around 135-140kts here, so not bad considering. I know Bonanzas that
burn that much! The posh FBO's always charge an arm and a leg, but I found Avgas
for around $5.20/gal on this trip and according to my little Foreflight software,
there were out-of-the-way strips with prices as low as $4.70. I'll try
to hit those next time.
Also, as a friend once put it - any airplane will be cheaper than a coke habit!
:D
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=344618#344618
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Subject: | Official Commander-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
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Matronics Email List Administrator
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process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
commander-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "commander-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Commander-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Commander-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/commander-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Commander-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Commander-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Commander-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Commander-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Commander-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Commander-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Commander-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Commander-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Commander
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Commander-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Commander-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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|
Subject: | Official Commander-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Commander-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Commander-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Commander-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Commander-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Commander-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Commander-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Commander-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Commander-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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