Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 PM - Fw: TCFG Fly-In (yourtcfg@aol.com)
2. 06:34 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (lloyd silverman)
3. 08:50 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (cybersuperstore)
4. 09:18 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (William J Hamilton)
Message 1
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Resending w/corrected typo!!
-----Original Message-----
From: yourtcfg <yourtcfg@aol.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 12:58 pm
Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In
Just a reminder to book your hotel for the annual Twin Commander gathering
at YIP by September 1st. See the website: www.aerocommander.com for addit
ional information.
Hope to see lots of you there!
Also please review your Directory and let us know if there are any changes
to your information.
~jb
P.S. Flew the Commander to a Fly-in breakfast/car show on a private/short
grass strip a couple of weeks ago and upon landing the ground crew announce
d on the radio ..."you'd never see a Baron do that!" Then after takeoff we
requested and received permission for a low fly-by and again the crew said
......"You'd never see a Baron do that either!" Gotta love that Commander
performance!!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. |
Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll
stay in the air & drive the oil co. crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: stratobee<mailto:adam@adamfrisch.com>
To: commander-list@matronics.com<mailto:commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel
consumption.
<adam@adamfrisch.com<mailto:adam@adamfrisch.com>>
Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow
flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual
so In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what
70-90kts cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone
tried? Be fun to see just how far you could get if you're not in a
hurry.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. |
I was always wondering about that. A guy once flew a Cherokee 140 for 8
hours and travelled way beyond it's published range on that fuel, by slowing
down and enjoying the view one would get from a micro light. But the hours
on the engine, airframe and other hourly things, not the pilot - he enjoyed
the time in his logbook - do add up. He rented the plane from the local
flying club and they were so delighted by the additional income that they
published the story in the club's newsletter and, if I remember correctly,
the story was also picked up in the local papers. I never made estimates
about the increased costs of a longer mission to save one element of the
costs, but it just seems as if the costs of the engine, prop (times two in a
twin) would easily outweigh the savings in fuel. There is a good, economical
balance there somewhere, and the cruise numbers in the POH would be very
close.
I am just not sure. There are no free lunches is probably a good place to
start.
Now, if you could feather one engine (zero cost) that would make sense if it
is one's pleasure to crawl through the sky at the blue line or less, but I
could never willingly dismiss power that's there for the taking. I'd rather
blast all I have to make a mission go faster and higher than otherwise. So,
no comment on that.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel
consumption.
Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll stay
in the air & drive the oil co. crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: stratobee <mailto:adam@adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption.
Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow
flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual so
In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what 70-90kts
cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone tried? Be fun
to see just how far you could get if you're not in a hurry.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724
http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. |
Folks,
Split the thinking into range and endurance, two very different things ----
do you actually want to get somewhere for the minimum block fuel, or do you
just want to stay in the air.
Maximum range will be achieved when you are flying at the best NAMP
(nautical air miles per pound of fuel) or any of a number of names that mean
the same thing. How you achieve this will be specific to the aircraft, and
the weight, height and ISA temperature.
Endurance is another matter, theoretically obtained at the minimum drag
speed for the engine/airframe combination, this can throw up some
interesting results, particularly in a turbine, if the thrust demand means
an engine is operating outside its best operating range. As drag only (more
or less) is related to CAS (IAS) except for minor high level mach number
effects, not something to worry any prop. Commander. Maximum endurance's
major variable is weight.
As an example, back in B707 days, we found we could reduce holding fuel flow
( very roughly min. fuel flow equals min. drag) by running two engines at
idle, and two at relatively higher power settings, rather than all four at
the same power settings.
The greatest improvement you will get to fuel usage in any piston Commander
with fuel injection will be to fit multi-probe EGT or CHT, and tune the
engine with GAMTjectors.
Cheers,
Bill Hamilton
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
cybersuperstore
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 1:40 PM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel
consumption.
I was always wondering about that. A guy once flew a Cherokee 140 for 8
hours and travelled way beyond it's published range on that fuel, by slowing
down and enjoying the view one would get from a micro light. But the hours
on the engine, airframe and other hourly things, not the pilot - he enjoyed
the time in his logbook - do add up. He rented the plane from the local
flying club and they were so delighted by the additional income that they
published the story in the club's newsletter and, if I remember correctly,
the story was also picked up in the local papers. I never made estimates
about the increased costs of a longer mission to save one element of the
costs, but it just seems as if the costs of the engine, prop (times two in a
twin) would easily outweigh the savings in fuel. There is a good, economical
balance there somewhere, and the cruise numbers in the POH would be very
close.
I am just not sure. There are no free lunches is probably a good place to
start.
Now, if you could feather one engine (zero cost) that would make sense if it
is one's pleasure to crawl through the sky at the blue line or less, but I
could never willingly dismiss power that's there for the taking. I'd rather
blast all I have to make a mission go faster and higher than otherwise. So,
no comment on that.
Nico
_____
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd
silverman
Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel
consumption.
Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll stay
in the air & drive the oil co. crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: stratobee <mailto:adam@adamfrisch.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM
Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption.
Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow
flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual so
In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what 70-90kts
cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone tried? Be fun
to see just how far you could get if you're not in a hurry.
--------
Adam
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724
<BNBSP;&NBSP;&NBSP;&NBSP;&NBSP;&NBSP;&NBSP;
title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List" http://www.matnbsp;
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
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s.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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