---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/06/11: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 PM - Fw: TCFG Fly-In (yourtcfg@aol.com) 2. 06:34 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (lloyd silverman) 3. 08:50 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (cybersuperstore) 4. 09:18 PM - Re: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. (William J Hamilton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:30 PM PST US Subject: Fwd: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In From: yourtcfg@aol.com Resending w/corrected typo!! -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2011 12:58 pm Subject: Commander-List: TCFG Fly-In Just a reminder to book your hotel for the annual Twin Commander gathering at YIP by September 1st. See the website: www.aerocommander.com for addit ional information. Hope to see lots of you there! Also please review your Directory and let us know if there are any changes to your information. ~jb P.S. Flew the Commander to a Fly-in breakfast/car show on a private/short grass strip a couple of weeks ago and upon landing the ground crew announce d on the radio ..."you'd never see a Baron do that!" Then after takeoff we requested and received permission for a low fly-by and again the crew said ......"You'd never see a Baron do that either!" Gotta love that Commander performance!! ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:58 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll stay in the air & drive the oil co. crazy ----- Original Message ----- From: stratobee To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. > Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual so In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what 70-90kts cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone tried? Be fun to see just how far you could get if you're not in a hurry. -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:15 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. I was always wondering about that. A guy once flew a Cherokee 140 for 8 hours and travelled way beyond it's published range on that fuel, by slowing down and enjoying the view one would get from a micro light. But the hours on the engine, airframe and other hourly things, not the pilot - he enjoyed the time in his logbook - do add up. He rented the plane from the local flying club and they were so delighted by the additional income that they published the story in the club's newsletter and, if I remember correctly, the story was also picked up in the local papers. I never made estimates about the increased costs of a longer mission to save one element of the costs, but it just seems as if the costs of the engine, prop (times two in a twin) would easily outweigh the savings in fuel. There is a good, economical balance there somewhere, and the cruise numbers in the POH would be very close. I am just not sure. There are no free lunches is probably a good place to start. Now, if you could feather one engine (zero cost) that would make sense if it is one's pleasure to crawl through the sky at the blue line or less, but I could never willingly dismiss power that's there for the taking. I'd rather blast all I have to make a mission go faster and higher than otherwise. So, no comment on that. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd silverman Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll stay in the air & drive the oil co. crazy ----- Original Message ----- From: stratobee Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual so In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what 70-90kts cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone tried? Be fun to see just how far you could get if you're not in a hurry. -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724 http://www.matnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:18:23 PM PST US From: "William J Hamilton" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Folks, Split the thinking into range and endurance, two very different things ---- do you actually want to get somewhere for the minimum block fuel, or do you just want to stay in the air. Maximum range will be achieved when you are flying at the best NAMP (nautical air miles per pound of fuel) or any of a number of names that mean the same thing. How you achieve this will be specific to the aircraft, and the weight, height and ISA temperature. Endurance is another matter, theoretically obtained at the minimum drag speed for the engine/airframe combination, this can throw up some interesting results, particularly in a turbine, if the thrust demand means an engine is operating outside its best operating range. As drag only (more or less) is related to CAS (IAS) except for minor high level mach number effects, not something to worry any prop. Commander. Maximum endurance's major variable is weight. As an example, back in B707 days, we found we could reduce holding fuel flow ( very roughly min. fuel flow equals min. drag) by running two engines at idle, and two at relatively higher power settings, rather than all four at the same power settings. The greatest improvement you will get to fuel usage in any piston Commander with fuel injection will be to fit multi-probe EGT or CHT, and tune the engine with GAMTjectors. Cheers, Bill Hamilton From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of cybersuperstore Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. I was always wondering about that. A guy once flew a Cherokee 140 for 8 hours and travelled way beyond it's published range on that fuel, by slowing down and enjoying the view one would get from a micro light. But the hours on the engine, airframe and other hourly things, not the pilot - he enjoyed the time in his logbook - do add up. He rented the plane from the local flying club and they were so delighted by the additional income that they published the story in the club's newsletter and, if I remember correctly, the story was also picked up in the local papers. I never made estimates about the increased costs of a longer mission to save one element of the costs, but it just seems as if the costs of the engine, prop (times two in a twin) would easily outweigh the savings in fuel. There is a good, economical balance there somewhere, and the cruise numbers in the POH would be very close. I am just not sure. There are no free lunches is probably a good place to start. Now, if you could feather one engine (zero cost) that would make sense if it is one's pleasure to crawl through the sky at the blue line or less, but I could never willingly dismiss power that's there for the taking. I'd rather blast all I have to make a mission go faster and higher than otherwise. So, no comment on that. Nico _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd silverman Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Feather right engine or simulate feather, 60 pct power on left. you'll stay in the air & drive the oil co. crazy ----- Original Message ----- From: stratobee Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Commander-List: Slow flying, extended range and fuel consumption. Has anyone, just for kicks, explored the real low end spectrum of slow flying and the fuel consumption there? My aircraft is in for her annual so In haven't been able to try yet, but I will. I want to see what 70-90kts cruise at altitude would give in fuel consumption. Has anyone tried? Be fun to see just how far you could get if you're not in a hurry. -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348724#348724 http://forums.matronics.com _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c==== =========== href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Commander-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.