---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 01/06/12: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - Re: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? (Barry Collman) 2. 06:53 AM - Pilot Side Door (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 3. 08:39 AM - Re: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? (BertBerry1@aol.com) 4. 08:59 AM - Re: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? (stratobee) 5. 09:20 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (yourtcfg@aol.com) 6. 09:31 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 7. 09:48 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (John Vormbaum) 8. 10:43 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Tylor Hall) 9. 10:43 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (yourtcfg@aol.com) 10. 10:58 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (yourtcfg@aol.com) 11. 11:06 AM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Randy Dettmer, AIA) 12. 12:16 PM - Oil pressure low hot idle. (stratobee) 13. 02:21 PM - Re: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? (Barry Collman) 14. 04:03 PM - Re: Oil pressure low hot idle. (Chris) 15. 04:23 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Jim Addington) 16. 04:36 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (John Vormbaum) 17. 06:21 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Jim Addington) 18. 06:45 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (lloyd silverman) 19. 07:29 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Donnie Rose) 20. 07:32 PM - Re: Oil pressure low hot idle. (Moe Mills) 21. 08:41 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Jim Addington) 22. 08:44 PM - Re: Pilot Side Door (Jim Addington) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:18 AM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: RE: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? Hi Adam, It's C6-BHY, a Model 500, s/n 834. It's owned by Abaco Air Ltd. of Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas. They have two other Models 500, s/n 685, C6-BFS & s/n 825, C6-BFR. Best Regards, Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee Sent: 06 January 2012 06:09 Subject: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? At 5:04 in this video, what looks like a beautiful 680 lands in Bahamas. It's hard to make out the registration - either C6-ERY or EHY or something like that. Any clues? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am4-em7T3zg -------- Adam ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:30 AM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:39:04 AM PST US From: BertBerry1@aol.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? The one in the video is going to be C6-BFR. Photo attached. Bert In a message dated 1/6/2012 4:16:25 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: --> Commander-List message posted by: "Barry Collman" Hi Adam, It's C6-BHY, a Model 500, s/n 834. It's owned by Abaco Air Ltd. of Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas. They have two other Models 500, s/n 685, C6-BFS & s/n 825, C6-BFR. Best Regards, Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee Sent: 06 January 2012 06:09 Subject: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? At 5:04 in this video, what looks like a beautiful 680 lands in Bahamas. It's hard to make out the registration - either C6-ERY or EHY or something like that. Any clues? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am4-em7T3zg -------- Adam ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:03 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? From: "stratobee" Nice looking bird. I love the clean looking paint scheme. Nice to just paint the nacelles like that. >From older pictures at Airliners.com, you can tell that they updated it with 3-blade Hartzell props as she used to be a 2-blade. I rang Hartzell a year ago or so and asked how much they were for mine, and when I picked myself up from the floor I think I heard her say ".....each". It was ludicrous - about $25K/each or something. I wish MT or someone else would offer an alternative. -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362576#362576 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door From: yourtcfg@aol.com HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but cert ainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airfr ame (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side doo r in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Th anks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:33 AM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:03 AM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, isn't there an STC kit for pilot doors? Maybe Morris, or Commander Aero, has one in their attic? From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:54 AM PST US From: Tylor Hall Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Air Center has the STC for the front door. http://www.aircenterinc.com/ I had heard that Legacy in OK has some parts for the door like frames ? JB, did you go by a look at it? Tylor Hall On Jan 6, 2012, at 10:15 AM, yourtcfg@aol.com wrote: > HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Dettmer, AIA > To: commander-list > Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am > Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door > > Hello Commander Fans, > Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. > > Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB > 680F / N6253X > > > > Dettmer Architecture > 663 Hill Street > San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 > 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 > www.dettmerarchitecture.com > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:43:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door From: yourtcfg@aol.com HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The fa ctory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were no t that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I c ould see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Town er in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used do or will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that , maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks .. Randy Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but cert ainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airfr ame (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side doo r in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Th anks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door From: yourtcfg@aol.com HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The fa ctory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were no t that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I c ould see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Town er in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used do or will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that , maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks .. Randy Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but cert ainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airfr ame (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side doo r in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Th anks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:38 AM PST US From: "Randy Dettmer, AIA" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Thanks JB - great information. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 10:38 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:43 PM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Oil pressure low hot idle. From: "stratobee" I was reading Moe's response in another unrelated thread: > Generally, if the engine is very worn with lots of clearance between the worn parts, which allows the oil to escape back into the sump using the path of least resistance, your biggest problem will be at hot idle (low oil pump speed and lots of clearance for the oil to squirt out at). When I had two very worn engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely stay in the green in the air, however, on the ground and hot there was not enough oil pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work, so it would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing, and you had to manually lean it out on the roll out. And that's exactly how my engine behaves. When's she's really hot and has been running for about 1hr, the oil pressure drops just below the green arc at idle, but never in the air. Also, the right engine can quit when you throttle back at high altitude landings on rollout. It's happened to me twice as I tried to taxi away only to find the right engine not turning. Now, that could have something to do with pressure carb, but then again it could not. Could this be related? But what I don't understand is what has the oil pressure got to to with the fuel pressure/mixture? Is it right of me to assume that they're unrelated, or is the low oil pressure at hot idle a sign that my engine might need an overhaul soon? -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362598#362598 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:32 PM PST US From: "Barry Collman" Subject: RE: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? Hi Bert, No! Definitely C6-BFR. I paused the video when the Commander is side-on and the Registration is clear!! Best Regards, Barry From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BertBerry1@aol.com Sent: 06 January 2012 16:35 Subject: Re: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? The one in the video is going to be C6-BFR. Photo attached. Bert In a message dated 1/6/2012 4:16:25 A.M. Central Standard Time, barry.collman@air-britain.co.uk writes: Hi Adam, It's C6-BHY, a Model 500, s/n 834. It's owned by Abaco Air Ltd. of Marsh Harbour, Abaco, Bahamas. They have two other Models 500, s/n 685, C6-BFS & s/n 825, C6-BFR. Best Regards, Barry -----Original Message----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of stratobee Sent: 06 January 2012 06:09 Subject: Commander-List: A 560 in Bahamas? Barry? At 5:04 in this video, what looks like a beautiful 680 lands in Bahamas. It's hard to make out the registration - either C6-ERY or EHY or something like that. Any clues? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am4-em7T3zg -------sp; se the ies ay - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - List Contribution Web Site p; ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:11 PM PST US From: Chris Subject: Re: Commander-List: Oil pressure low hot idle. stratobee wrote: > is the low oil pressure at hot idle a sign that my engine might need > an overhaul soon? That's pretty much exactly what it means. On your GO435's, the oil pressure has nothing to do with mixture control. That's an issue for the Simmonds injected engines. You're probably due a carb overhaul. One the diaphragms start to get hard, mixture control begins to get unreliable. Suggest Mikes A/C fuel metering in Tulsa, OK. He's the pressure carb guru and has all the strange flow bench stuff to set one up properly. Chris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:56 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:36:49 PM PST US From: "John Vormbaum" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, what is special about John's battery setup? What's different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner) Good luck with your install. I hope you don't have to undo/redo it. /John From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:03 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door John, the STC is for the 500B but did not include any other models. It is a much cheaper battery that is much better than the regular aircraft batteries. I paid $300 for the two 12 volt batteries where I was given an $850 for the 24 volt. The aircraft 12 volt batteries were something like $185 each and don't last as long. These are waterless so you don't have to vent them and they don't leak. You have a 500B sot you can get the STC from John for your plane and not have any problems. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:34 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, what is special about John's battery setup? What's different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner) Good luck with your install. I hope you don't have to undo/redo it. /John From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:20 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door JIM ,I HAVE TWIN COMMANDER ENGINEERING ORDER 5800211. IT'S FOR CONVERSION OF THE 500B 24V BATTERY TO TWO 12V CONCORDES. IT'S AN EASY JOB AND VERY COST EFFECTIVE AS WELL AS PROVIDING MORE AMP HOURS AND PROBABLY LONGER LIFI. GOOD LUCK, LLOYD. N6290X. PS : SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS USE # 800211. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Addington To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door John, the STC is for the 500B but did not include any other models. It is a much cheaper battery that is much better than the regular aircraft batteries. I paid $300 for the two 12 volt batteries where I was given an $850 for the 24 volt. The aircraft 12 volt batteries were something like $185 each and don't last as long. These are waterless so you don't have to vent them and they don't leak. You have a 500B sot you can get the STC from John for your plane and not have any problems. Jim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:34 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, what is special about John's battery setup? What's different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner) Good luck with your install. I hope you don't have to undo/redo it. /John From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg To: commander-list Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA > To: commander-list > Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM To: commander-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA > To: commander-list > Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:48 PM PST US From: Donnie Rose Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, if you are talking of gell batts the lead acid are much better and che aper, they withstand temp changes and you get the 'tiltite' caps (12v).=0A =0A=0ADonnie 205/492-8444=0A=0A=0A=0A>________________________________=0A>F rom: Jim Addington =0A>To: commander-list@matronic s.com =0A>Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 8:16 PM=0A>Subject: RE: Commander-L ist: Pilot Side Door=0A>=0A>=0A>John, the STC is for the 500B but did not i nclude any other models. It is a much cheaper battery that is much better t han the regular aircraft batteries. I paid $300 for the two 12 volt batteri es where I was given an $850 for the 24 volt. The aircraft 12 volt batterie s were something like $185 each and don=99t last as long. These are w aterless so you don=99t have to vent them and they don=99t leak . You have a 500B sot you can get the STC from John for your plane and not have any problems. Jim=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A >=0A>From:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commande r-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum=0A>Sent: Friday, J anuary 06, 2012 6:34 PM=0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>=C2-=0A>Jim, what is special about Jo hn=99s battery setup? What=99s different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner)=0A>=C2-=0A>Good luck with your inst all. I hope you don=99t have to undo/redo it.=0A>=C2-=0A>/John=0A> =C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>From:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Addington=0A> Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM=0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com =0A>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>=C2-=0A>It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval f or John=99s battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA in spector. He said, after a few choice words, they can=99t say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plan e but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I ma y have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspect ion instead of after.=0A>I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don=99t have any problems.=0A>Jim A ddington=0A>N444BD=0A>=C2-=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>=0A >From:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-li st-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com=0A>Sent: Friday, Ja nuary 06, 2012 12:53 PM=0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>=C2-=0A>HI RANDY...... John Towner , Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane.=C2- jb=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: yourtcfg =0A>To: commander-list < commander-list@matroni cs.com >=0A>Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am=0A>Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. =C2- I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out.=C2- Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, hav ing installed several.=C2- The factory also did several.=C2- They fit t he best.=C2- Some STC installations were not that great.=C2- I just del ivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat.=C2- It also required too much effort=C2 -to operate.=C2- All items that can probably be addressed, but should h ave be done right to begin with.=C2- Another source might be John Towner in KC.=C2- He owns 35 Commanders and=C2-every one has a front door.=C2 - A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at lea st equal that, maybe more.=C2- Finished, if done correctly, it will ad mo st of that back in the=C2-value of the airplane.=C2- Doors that are imp roperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. =C2- jb=C2- =0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Randy Dettmer, AIA =0A>To: commander-list =0A>S ent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am=0A>Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Do or=0A>Hi JB,=0A>Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..?=C2- Thanks.=0A>=C2-=0A>Randy=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A>Dettmer Ar chitecture=0A>663 Hill Street=0A>San Luis Obispo, CA =C2- 93405=0A>805 54 1 4864 / fax 805 541 4865=0A>www.dettmerarchitecture.com=0A>=C2-=0A>From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com=0A>Sent: Friday, January 06 , 2012 9:16 AM=0A>To: commander-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Commande r-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>=C2-=0A>HI RANDY Yes, it can be done.=C2- It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible.=C2- You would n eed to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one).=C2- jb=0A>-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Randy Dettmer, AIA =0A>To: commander-list =0A>Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am=0A>Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door=0A>Hello Commander Fans,=0A>Does anyone out there know about the proc ess of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..??=C2- Is it possible..?? =C2- Cost..??=C2- Who can do this work..??=C2- Thanks very much.=0A> =C2-=0A>Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB=0A>680F / N6253X=0A>=C2-=0A>=C2-=0A >Dettmer Architecture=0A>663 Hill Street=0A>San Luis Obispo, CA =C2- 9340 5=0A>805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865=0A>www.dettmerarchitecture.com=0A>=C2 -=0A>=0A> ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:48 PM PST US From: Moe Mills Subject: RE: Commander-List: Oil pressure low hot idle. HI Adam=2C The information that I listed is indigenous to the IGSO 540 B1A or B1C. Th ese engines have Simmonds fuel injection units on them. The system is a si ngle point injection system with only one large nozzle that sprays directly into the gear driven supercharger on the rear of the engine. This system uses oil pressure to operate a mechanical computer that is in the same hous ing as the fuel pump. The idea is that the system will compensate for densi ty altitude (sort of). When the oil pressure gets low (below about 35 PSI) the pump gasoline pressure overcomes the metering device and causes too mu ch fuel to flow to the nozzle for the amount of air that is being flowed th rough the supercharger (sort of). I have not ever come across an internal combustion engine with carburetors that used oil pressure in any way to met er the amount of fuel being fed into the engine. If anyone is aware of one let me know about it. From an engine running standpoint the worst combusti on problem brought about by high oil consumption is the fact that the oil w hich passes by the rings or valve guides will lower the octane rating (sort of) or the fuel/air mixture in the cylinders and can cause pre-ignition. If you run the engine extremely rich to get rid or the pre-ignition you may go into detonation. Hopefuly I have confused you sufficiently. Regards=2C Moe N680RR Former proud holder of the Golden Pedal Award Current Holder of of the Fartest Flown Award Current Holder of the Purple Boots (although I haven't had the nerve to wea r them in public) > Subject: Commander-List: Oil pressure low hot idle. > From: adam@adamfrisch.com D > Date: Fri=2C 6 Jan 2012 12:11:13 -0800 > To: commander-list@matronics.com > > > I was reading Moe's response in another unrelated thread: > > > > Generally=2C if the engine is very worn with lots of clearance between the worn parts=2C which allows the oil to escape back into the sump using t he path of least resistance=2C your biggest problem will be at hot idle (lo w oil pump speed and lots of clearance for the oil to squirt out at). When I had two very worn engines in my bird the oil pressure would barely stay i n the green in the air=2C however=2C on the ground and hot there was not en ough oil pressure (below 35PSI) to make the fuel metering system work=2C so it would run so rich that it was hard to keep it lit when landing=2C and y ou had to manually lean it out on the roll out. > > > And that's exactly how my engine behaves. When's she's really hot and has been running for about 1hr=2C the oil pressure drops just below the green arc at idle=2C but never in the air. Also=2C the right engine can quit when you throttle back at high altitude landings on rollout. It's happened to m e twice as I tried to taxi away only to find the right engine not turning. Now=2C that could have something to do with pressure carb=2C but then again it could not. Could this be related? > > But what I don't understand is what has the oil pressure got to to with t he fuel pressure/mixture? Is it right of me to assume that they're unrelate d=2C or is the low oil pressure at hot idle a sign that my engine might nee d an overhaul soon? > > -------- > Adam > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=362598#362598 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:41:50 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Lloyd, thanks for the offer but we are too far along and I think we can get there from here. The batteries we are using are just like the Concord and we put them on their side and bottom to bottom. I think these are 25 amps each. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of lloyd silverman Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door JIM ,I HAVE TWIN COMMANDER ENGINEERING ORDER 5800211. IT'S FOR CONVERSION OF THE 500B 24V BATTERY TO TWO 12V CONCORDES. IT'S AN EASY JOB AND VERY COST EFFECTIVE AS WELL AS PROVIDING MORE AMP HOURS AND PROBABLY LONGER LIFI. GOOD LUCK, LLOYD. N6290X. PS : SOME OF THE DOCUMENTS USE # 800211. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door John, the STC is for the 500B but did not include any other models. It is a much cheaper battery that is much better than the regular aircraft batteries. I paid $300 for the two 12 volt batteries where I was given an $850 for the 24 volt. The aircraft 12 volt batteries were something like $185 each and don't last as long. These are waterless so you don't have to vent them and they don't leak. You have a 500B sot you can get the STC from John for your plane and not have any problems. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:34 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, what is special about John's battery setup? What's different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner) Good luck with your install. I hope you don't have to undo/redo it. /John From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY......John Towner, Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:59 PM PST US From: "Jim Addington" Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door These are B & C batteries, that is what John's STC called for, together they are lighter than the 24V battery. Jim _____ From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Donnie Rose Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:23 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, if you are talking of gell batts the lead acid are much better and cheaper, they withstand temp changes and you get the 'tiltite' caps (12v). Donnie 205/492-8444 From: Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 6, 2012 8:16 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door John, the STC is for the 500B but did not include any other models. It is a much cheaper battery that is much better than the regular aircraft batteries. I paid $300 for the two 12 volt batteries where I was given an $850 for the 24 volt. The aircraft 12 volt batteries were something like $185 each and don't last as long. These are waterless so you don't have to vent them and they don't leak. You have a 500B sot you can get the STC from John for your plane and not have any problems. Jim From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of John Vormbaum Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 6:34 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Jim, what is special about John's battery setup? What's different about it from a normal 500B? (signed, a curious 500B owner) Good luck with your install. I hope you don't have to undo/redo it. /John From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Addington Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 4:18 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door It might not be that easy. I have been trying for at least 10 years to get an approval for John's battery set up for my 500A. I finally found a guy that is a designee for the FAA and he is more crotchety than just about any FAA inspector. He said, after a few choice words, they can't say no so I think I am just about to get the approval. We have it installed in the plane but may have to take it out and take a picture and then put it back. I may have made a big mistake in doing it while we are doing the annual inspection instead of after. I would like to some day have a front door put in my 500A, good luck and I hope you don't have any problems. Jim Addington N444BD From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 12:53 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY...... John Towner , Central Air owns and STC (SA2803CE) for at least the model 500B, should be the same for your airplane. jb -----Original Message----- From: yourtcfg Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 10:45 am Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY.....There is an STC for the door installation. I have no Idea who owns it or how to find out. Morris Kernick is the best source of that and would be the best place to have it done, having installed several. The factory also did several. They fit the best. Some STC installations were not that great. I just delivered a 500B to the Caribbean with a door and I could see daylight around much of it from the pilot seat. It also required too much effort to operate. All items that can probably be addressed, but should have be done right to begin with. Another source might be John Towner in KC. He owns 35 Commanders and every one has a front door. A used door will cost about $7500 +/-, and the installation will at least equal that, maybe more. Finished, if done correctly, it will ad most of that back in the value of the airplane. Doors that are improperly installed ad almost nothing as they leak water, cold air and noise. jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 9:32 am Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hi JB, Any idea on the cost and who would be a good shop for such a job..? Thanks. Randy Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2012 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door HI RANDY Yes, it can be done. It is expensive and time consuming, but certainly possible. You would need to locate a "donor door" from another airframe (I may know where there is one). jb -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dettmer, AIA < rcdettmer@charter.net> commander-list@matronics.com> Sent: Fri, Jan 6, 2012 6:54 am Subject: Commander-List: Pilot Side Door Hello Commander Fans, Does anyone out there know about the process of installing a pilot side door in a 680F..?? Is it possible..?? Cost..?? Who can do this work..?? Thanks very much. Randy Dettmer, AIA, NCARB 680F / N6253X Description: logoRED-126x38@72dpi Dettmer Architecture 663 Hill Street San Luis Obispo, CA 93405 805 541 4864 / fax 805 541 4865 www.dettmerarchitecture.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.