Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 10:04 AM - Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight (Nick Martin)
2. 10:54 AM - Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight (BillLeff1@aol.com)
3. 11:13 AM - Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight (Nick Martin)
4. 07:17 PM - Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight (Keith S. Gordon)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight |
Thanks for your comments
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
That is what I always recommend. There should be a circuit
breaker/switch, similar to the Beechcraft switch's, installed.
Congratulations on handling the emergency well, it doesn't always have a
happy ending!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nick <nick@container.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:16 am
Subject: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
Dear Commander Gurus=99 :
We started to lose hydraulic pressure in my 690A commander .Pressure
went from 900# to 500# . We followed emergency procedure which calls for
the pulling of the breaker for the aux. hydraulic pump and continued the
flight .Then as is procedure we pushed in the breaker and the gear came
down without a problem..
My question is why not fly with the aux. hydraulic breaker pulled all
the time? This would prevent loss of all fluid if you did not catch the
loss soon enough
Any comments ? Nick N674NM
From: <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?>
mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
Hi Moe,
Last I knew:
N55GL, 680F(P) s/n 1200-104, was derelict at Berry Hill, Georgia. Info
from a photo taken in January 2011.
N27GA, 680F(P) s/n 1212-111, was derelict at Corona, California. Info
from a photo taken in February 2011.
N70QT, 680F(P) s/n 1208-109, was being parted out by Mountain Air LLC.,
Marion, Iowa following its accident in July 2009.
If none of these prove fruitful, I=99ll try some of the other
Models.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?>
mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: 08 February 2012 07:03
Subject: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
COMMANDERLAND'
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A
680t
680flp
680F(p)
THAT IS EITHER DERALICT OR BEING PARTED OUT?
THANX!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight |
No No No! The aux hydraulic pump should only be pulled during an
emergency. It is intended to be operational if you loose hydraulic pressure
during
take off and landing.
During take off and landing if the hydraulic system fails due to a broken
line in the landing gear system the main system will fail (the first
indication of a failure of the main system is the nose gear extending) but
there
is a reserve that only supplies the brakes, nose wheel steering and flaps.
This system will be available during the landing roll if the main system
fails.
You do not have time to reach over and reset a CB or turn on a switch (this
would require a field approval) once you realize that you have a problem.
However, if you pull the aux hyd CB as soon as you recognize the hydraulic
system failure you will preserve the aux pump supply. This should me a
memory item as far as emergency check list are concerned.
The aux hydraulic pump has no function in extending the landing gear. So,
you should wait until you are on short final to push it in. On the other
hand, why do you need brakes in a 690 anyway!
Ted Smith was a smart guy, don't second guess his intension's about how to
operate his systems.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 2/14/2012 1:04:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
nick@container.com writes:
Thanks for your comments
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@a
ol.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
That is what I always recommend. There should be a circuit
breaker/switch, similar to the Beechcraft switch's, installed. Congratula
tions on
handling the emergency well, it doesn't always have a happy ending!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nick <nick@container.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:16 am
Subject: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
Dear Commander Gurus=99 :
We started to lose hydraulic pressure in my 690A commander .Pressure went
from 900# to 500# . We followed emergency procedure which calls for the
pulling of the breaker for the aux. hydraulic pump and continued the fligh
t
.Then as is procedure we pushed in the breaker and the gear came down with
out
a problem..
My question is why not fly with the aux. hydraulic breaker pulled all the
time? This would prevent loss of all fluid if you did not catch the loss
soon enough
Any comments ? Nick N674NM
From: _owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander
-list-server@matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of
Barry Collman
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
Hi Moe,
Last I knew:
N55GL, 680F(P) s/n 1200-104, was derelict at Berry Hill, Georgia. Info
from a photo taken in January 2011.
N27GA, 680F(P) s/n 1212-111, was derelict at Corona, California. Info from
a photo taken in February 2011.
N70QT, 680F(P) s/n 1208-109, was being parted out by Mountain Air LLC.,
Marion, Iowa following its accident in July 2009.
If none of these prove fruitful, I=99ll try some of the other Models
.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: _owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com_
(mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com)
[_mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com_ (mailto:owner-commander
-list-server@matronics.com?) ] On Behalf Of Moe
Mills
Sent: 08 February 2012 07:03
Subject: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
COMMANDERLAND'
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A
680t
680flp
680F(p)
THAT IS EITHER DERALICT OR BEING PARTED OUT?
THANX!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
_http://forums.matronics.com_ (http://forums.matronics.com/)
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
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(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List)
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight |
Bill,
What we were saying was to pull the breaker after takeoff and reset it
before landing . This procedure would prevent the TOTAL loss of hyd
.fluid if a line was to break and the pilot did not notice the hyd
pressure drop on the gage . NIck
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
BillLeff1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
No No No! The aux hydraulic pump should only be pulled during an
emergency. It is intended to be operational if you loose hydraulic
pressure during take off and landing.
During take off and landing if the hydraulic system fails due to a
broken line in the landing gear system the main system will fail (the
first indication of a failure of the main system is the nose gear
extending) but there is a reserve that only supplies the brakes, nose
wheel steering and flaps. This system will be available during the
landing roll if the main system fails.
You do not have time to reach over and reset a CB or turn on a switch
(this would require a field approval) once you realize that you have a
problem. However, if you pull the aux hyd CB as soon as you recognize
the hydraulic system failure you will preserve the aux pump supply. This
should me a memory item as far as emergency check list are concerned.
The aux hydraulic pump has no function in extending the landing gear.
So, you should wait until you are on short final to push it in. On the
other hand, why do you need brakes in a 690 anyway!
Ted Smith was a smart guy, don't second guess his intension's about how
to operate his systems.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 2/14/2012 1:04:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
nick@container.com writes:
Thanks for your comments
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
That is what I always recommend. There should be a circuit
breaker/switch, similar to the Beechcraft switch's, installed.
Congratulations on handling the emergency well, it doesn't always have a
happy ending!! jb
-----Original Message-----
From: nick <nick@container.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:16 am
Subject: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
Dear Commander Gurus=99 :
We started to lose hydraulic pressure in my 690A commander .Pressure
went from 900# to 500# . We followed emergency procedure which calls for
the pulling of the breaker for the aux. hydraulic pump and continued the
flight .Then as is procedure we pushed in the breaker and the gear came
down without a problem..
My question is why not fly with the aux. hydraulic breaker pulled all
the time? This would prevent loss of all fluid if you did not catch the
loss soon enough
Any comments ? Nick N674NM
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of Barry
Collman
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
Hi Moe,
Last I knew:
N55GL, 680F(P) s/n 1200-104, was derelict at Berry Hill, Georgia. Info
from a photo taken in January 2011.
N27GA, 680F(P) s/n 1212-111, was derelict at Corona, California. Info
from a photo taken in February 2011.
N70QT, 680F(P) s/n 1208-109, was being parted out by Mountain Air LLC.,
Marion, Iowa following its accident in July 2009.
If none of these prove fruitful, I=99ll try some of the other
Models.
Very Best Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com?> ] On Behalf Of Moe
Mills
Sent: 08 February 2012 07:03
Subject: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
COMMANDERLAND'
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A
680t
680flp
680F(p)
THAT IS EITHER DERALICT OR BEING PARTED OUT?
THANX!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com <http://forums.matronics.com/>
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blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
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p://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight |
I concur. Ted Smith was more than smart. In his last design, the AeroStar
, the aux pump was protected and controlled by a breaker switch (similar to
what JB was describing) so it could be easily enabled and disabled.
In normal ops, I've always advocated "Gear up, aux pump disabled. Gear dow
n, aux pump enabled."
In an abnormal -- plain language, loss of hydraulic fluid -- you'd put the
gear down via the pneudraulic extension, bungees and gravity and just prior
to touchdown you'd reset the aux pump breaker (or switch) and you'd have a
chance at brakes, and nosewheel steering depending on how severe the leak.
You could choose to shoot your wad on flaps, as well, but I don't think you
get as much benefit from flaps as you do from brakes in this situation.
By the time you're alerted to a hydraulic leak via uncommanded nose gear ex
tension, it's too late!
Remember, for every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD, so you're getti
ng a few good opinions and options in this discussion.
Keith S. Gordon
aka Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
KHND RNAV Lead
FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas
NBAA Access Committee
Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep
Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Martin <nick@container.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 14, 2012 11:14 am
Subject: RE: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
Bill,
What we were saying was to pull the breaker after takeoff andreset it befor
e landing . This procedure would prevent the TOTAL loss of hyd .fluidif a l
ine was to break and the pilot did not notice the hyd pressure drop onthe g
age . NIck
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillLeff1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
No No No! The aux hydraulic pump should only be pulledduring an emergency.
It is intended to be operational if you loose hydraulicpressure during tak
e off and landing.
During take off and landing if the hydraulic system fails due to abroken li
ne in the landing gear system the main system will fail (the firstindicatio
n of a failure of the main system is the nose gear extending) butthere is a
reserve that only supplies the brakes, nose wheel steeringand flaps. This
system will be available during the landing roll if themain system fails.
You do not have time to reach over and reset a CB or turn on aswitch (this
would require a field approval) once you realize that you have aproblem. Ho
wever, if you pull the aux hyd CB as soon as you recognize thehydraulic sys
tem failure you will preserve the aux pump supply. Thisshould me a memory i
tem as far as emergency check list are concerned.
The aux hydraulic pump has no function in extending the landinggear. So, yo
u should wait until you are on short final to push it in. On theother hand,
why do you need brakes in a 690 anyway!
Ted Smith was a smart guy, don't second guess his intension'sabout how to o
perate his systems.
Bill Leff
In a message dated 2/14/2012 1:04:22 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,nick@contai
ner.com writes:
Thanksfor your comments
From:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-commander-list-
server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of yourtcfg@aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
That iswhat I always recommend. There should be a circuit breaker/switch,s
imilar to the Beechcraft switch's, installed. Congratulations onhandling t
he emergency well, it doesn't always have a happy ending!! jb
-----OriginalMessage-----
From: nick <nick@container.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 9:16 am
Subject: Commander-List: Lost Hydraulic pressure in flight
DearCommander Gurus=99 :
Westarted to lose hydraulic pressure in my 690A commander .Pressure went fr
om900# to 500# . We followed emergency procedure which calls for the pullin
g ofthe breaker for the aux. hydraulic pump and continued the flight .Then
as is procedurewe pushed in the breaker and the gear came down without a pr
oblem..
Myquestion is why not fly with the aux. hydraulic breaker pulled all the ti
me?This would prevent loss of all fluid if you did not catch the loss soon
enough
Any comments? Nick N674NM
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Barry Collman
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 4:08 AM
Subject: RE: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
HiMoe,
LastI knew:
N55GL,680F(P) s/n 1200-104, was derelict at Berry Hill, Georgia. Info from
a phototaken in January 2011.
N27GA,680F(P) s/n 1212-111, was derelict at Corona, California. Info from a
phototaken in February 2011.
N70QT,680F(P) s/n 1208-109, was being parted out by Mountain Air LLC., Mari
on, Iowa followingits accident in July 2009.
Ifnone of these prove fruitful, I=99ll try some of the other Models.
VeryBest Regards,
Barry
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-commander-list
-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Moe Mills
Sent: 08 February 2012 07:03
Subject: Commander-List: SALVAGE OR DERALICT COMMANDER
COMMANDERLAND'
DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A
680t
680flp
680F(p)
THAT IS EITHER DERALICT OR BEING PARTED OUT?
THANX!
Moe Mills
N680RR
680F(p)
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Commander-List
s.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
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