---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/18/12: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:58 AM - 680FP (Zac Armstrong) 2. 10:14 AM - Re: 680FP (Kerry Johnson) 3. 10:24 AM - Re: 680FP (stratobee) 4. 10:33 AM - Re: 680FP (Moe Mills) 5. 11:29 AM - Re: 680FP (BillLeff1@aol.com) 6. 08:02 PM - Re: 680FP (cybersuperstore) 7. 08:08 PM - Re: 680FP (cybersuperstore) 8. 08:48 PM - Re: 680FP (Moe Mills) 9. 11:18 PM - Re: 680FP (cybersuperstore) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:24 AM PST US From: Zac Armstrong Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm ander/680FP/987942.html I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely=2C Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r emember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa ntayana. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:41 AM PST US From: "Kerry Johnson" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP I've never owned a Twin Commander, so I can't say how they compare, but I've owned and flown a Beech B60 Duke a 59P Baron and a few 601P and 700 Aerostars. The pressurization system required minimal maintenance and those planes all have pretty well tested power plants, so I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the way of expensive maintenance. The Duke and 58P Baron had similar speed and climb profiles; you could expect to climb at 1000 - 1500 FPM to FL200 and then from there up much less climb. Cruise speeds were in the 200-225 knot TAS range; the Duke burned around 50 gph, the 58P 32-36 gph. The Aerostar is a whole other animal; much much faster, with cruise speeds ranging from 220-260 knots TAS, fuel burn from 32-40 gph. The Aerostar is a much more efficient aircraft at any altitude and really blows the Beech planes into the weeds during climb and descent with a redline of over 200 knots indicated and climbing at 1500-2000 fpm @ 150 - 160 knots indicated. I like the Aerostar best and I like an intercooled 601P better than a 700. The 700 is faster, but it burns a lot more fuel and has no more range. Also; Ted Smith designed and built the Aerostar, so I consider it as a part of the same family as the Twin Commander. Anyway, that's my experience; hope it helps. From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zac Armstrong Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:57 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK. In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP /987942.html I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex, pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance, especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said, outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely, Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. Commemorative Air Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:38 AM PST US Subject: Commander-List: Re: 680FP From: "stratobee" Moe Mills who owns one will prob come along soon and answer what you need to know. However, I can tell you that the FP uses a hydraulic driven pressurization system that can be a little harder to get parts for. The IGSO-engines are also quite highly strung and will prob need some top end work before they reach TBO. Lovely plane and I've been keeping an eye on them myself... -------- Adam Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=378650#378650 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:33:16 AM PST US From: Moe Mills Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Zac=2C Regarding your post=2C I have been flying a 680F(p) for several y ears (about 1=2C000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. ( 310) 350-4594 EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST=2C If you received a bogus e mail from me yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to every one in my laptop. Moe MillsN680RR680F(p) From: transam403@hotmail.com Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm ander/680FP/987942.html I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely=2C Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bonda ge to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage to liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B f rom selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apathy to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exc eption to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not r emember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Sa ntayana. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:22 AM PST US From: "BillLeff1@aol.com" Subject: Re: Commander-List: 680FP I have known 72X for more than 15 years. If you have any questions call me at 937-369-3334 later tonight It is a good one Bill Leff Sent from my Verizon Wireless Droid -----Original message----- From: Zac Armstrong Sent: Wed, Jul 18, 2012 15:58:43 GMT+00:00 Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK. In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP/ 987942.html I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex, pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance, especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said, outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely, Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:06 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Kerry, That's what I suspected about the Aerostars. Didn't know the 601P was a more efficient configuration than the 700. Ted knew how to put the forces of nature together minimum conflict. Thanks for the response. We would like to have a story of your flights for our facebook page, if you don't mind. Go to www.facebook.com/commanderflight and LIKE the site. No signup required. Thanks, Nico From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Johnson Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:14 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP I've never owned a Twin Commander, so I can't say how they compare, but I've owned and flown a Beech B60 Duke a 59P Baron and a few 601P and 700 Aerostars. The pressurization system required minimal maintenance and those planes all have pretty well tested power plants, so I didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the way of expensive maintenance. The Duke and 58P Baron had similar speed and climb profiles; you could expect to climb at 1000 - 1500 FPM to FL200 and then from there up much less climb. Cruise speeds were in the 200-225 knot TAS range; the Duke burned around 50 gph, the 58P 32-36 gph. The Aerostar is a whole other animal; much much faster, with cruise speeds ranging from 220-260 knots TAS, fuel burn from 32-40 gph. The Aerostar is a much more efficient aircraft at any altitude and really blows the Beech planes into the weeds during climb and descent with a redline of over 200 knots indicated and climbing at 1500-2000 fpm @ 150 - 160 knots indicated. I like the Aerostar best and I like an intercooled 601P better than a 700. The 700 is faster, but it burns a lot more fuel and has no more range. Also; Ted Smith designed and built the Aerostar, so I consider it as a part of the same family as the Twin Commander. Anyway, that's my experience; hope it helps. From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Zac Armstrong Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 9:57 AM Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK. In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP /987942.html I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex, pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance, especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said, outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely, Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. Commemorative Air Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:25 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Moe, Would you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It would be such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pilots. I noticed that as I publish something, the visit-rate spikes, so it is about content, content, content. The Commander facebook page is at www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when you are in, just LIKE the page and write or paste your story. Thanks, Nico From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Zac, Regarding your post, I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (about 1,000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4594 EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST, If you received a bogus email from me yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my laptop. Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) _____ From: transam403@hotmail.com Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK. In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP /987942.html I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex, pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance, especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said, outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely, Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. Commemorative Air Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN. st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:24 PM PST US From: Moe Mills Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Nico=2C I will try to put something together and post it=2C even though I don't really have any horror stories to speak of. Regards=2C Moe From: nico@cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Moe=2CWould you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It w ould be such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pi lots. I noticed that as I publish something=2C the visit-rate spikes=2C so it is about content=2C content=2C content. The Commander facebook page is a t www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when you are in=2C just LIKE the pag e and write or paste your story. Thanks=2CNico From: owner-commander-list- server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills Sent: Wednesday=2C July 18=2C 2012 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Zac=2C Regarding your post=2C I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (abou t 1=2C000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4 594 EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST=2C If you received a bogus email from me y esterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my lapt op. Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) From: transam403@hotmail.com Subject: Commander-List: 680FP I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is l ooking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas=2C LA=2C and O K. In thinking outside of the box=2C I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421=2C 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X=2C which can be foun d online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Comm ander/680FP/987942.html I know=2C especially with Aero Commanders=2C that getting into a complex=2C pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance=2C esp ecially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said=2C outside of this specific aircraft=2C what kind of speeds can be expected=2C fuel burns=2C etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely=2C Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bond age to spiritual faith=3B from spiritual faith to courage=3B from courage t o liberty=3B from liberty to abundance=3B from abundance to selfishness=3B from selfishness to complacency=3B from complacency to apathy=3B from apath y to dependence=3B from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the ex ception to history=2C then we must break the cycle=2C for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. st" target="_ blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matro nics.com="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Commander-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.mat ronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:53 PM PST US From: "cybersuperstore" Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Thanks, Moe. No need for horror stories, folks enjoy nicely written regular flights, too. From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:48 PM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Nico, I will try to put something together and post it, even though I don't really have any horror stories to speak of. Regards, Moe _____ From: nico@cybersuperstore.com Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Moe, Would you write some stories for the Commander facebook page? It would be such a blast to publish some of the memories of flights of other pilots. I noticed that as I publish something, the visit-rate spikes, so it is about content, content, content. The Commander facebook page is at www.facebook.com/commanderflight and when you are in, just LIKE the page and write or paste your story. Thanks, Nico From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Moe Mills Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 10:33 AM Subject: RE: Commander-List: 680FP Hi Zac, Regarding your post, I have been flying a 680F(p) for several years (about 1,000 hours) and would be happy to discuss things with you. (310) 350-4594 EVERYONE ELSE ON COMMANDER-LIST, If you received a bogus email from me yesterday please excuse it. I was SPAMMED and it wen to everyone in my laptop. Moe Mills N680RR 680F(p) _____ From: transam403@hotmail.com Subject: Commander-List: 680FP Hello All. I hope everyone is doing well these days. I have a client of mine who is looking for a pressurized aircraft to make trips around Texas, LA, and OK. In thinking outside of the box, I was looking at the FP models of the Aero Commander in lieu of the usual 421, 414 etc. I was wondering if anyone has any history about N6272X, which can be found online: http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/Multi+Engine+Piston/1962/Commander/680FP /987942.html I know, especially with Aero Commanders, that getting into a complex, pressurized bird such as this can eat anyone's lunch on maintenance, especially if it hasn't been flown or taken care of. With that being said, outside of this specific aircraft, what kind of speeds can be expected, fuel burns, etc from these birds as I am only familiar with the straight 500 series aircraft. Thanks in advance and have a great day! Sincerely, Zac Armstrong 936-577-1117 Allegiance Aviation Services www.allegianceaviation.com zac@allegianceaviation.com All the world's great civilizations have followed the same path: from bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependence back to bondage. If we are to be the exception to history, then we must break the cycle, for those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -Based on statements/excepts from Sir Alexander Fraser Tytler and George Santayana. Commemorative Air Force - Yellow Rose - B-25 SQDN. st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Commander-List http://forums.matronics.com ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message commander-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Commander-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/commander-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/commander-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.