---------------------------------------------------------- Commander-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/02/13: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:34 PM - Pneumatic leak? (Dave Gerrish) 2. 02:04 PM - Re: Pneumatic leak? (Moe Mills) 3. 02:24 PM - Re: Pneumatic leak? (Keith S. Gordon) 4. 02:53 PM - Re: Pneumatic leak? (lloyd silverman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:48 PM PST US From: "Dave Gerrish" Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until today. I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last several years with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to 300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I'm sure will research this but I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to them? I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:04:36 PM PST US From: Moe Mills Subject: RE: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? Hi Dave=2C Back on May 24=2C 2004 Scott Dickey made a two page post=2C which I believe will address your accumulator problems. If you can not find it in the arc hives please email me jack@eclipseindustries.com and I will scan it and se nd it to you. This was a very good post=2C therefore=2C I printed it and h ave kept it with my secret hydraulic file. Regards=2C "Moe" MillsN680RR680F(p) From: virginia.gerrish@verizon.net Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until t oday.I own one half of a 500S=2C N47AC=2C based in Warrenton=2C Virginia KH WY. My partner=2C Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the las t several years with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earl ier in the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic ga ge was at 150PSI for no known reason=2C so I pumped it with nitrogen back t o 300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and the re is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like t he fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floo r. OK=2C so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must ha ve some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydra ulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full=2C onto the floor it go es. Ken and I I=92m sure will research this but I am wondering if others h ave had this kind of thing happen to them?I am also wondering if others jus t get rebuilt=2C yellow tagged actuators=2C or if they buy new ones or if t hey pull the darn things apart and fix them themselves=2C assuming they mea t dimensional specs.Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? From: "Keith S. Gordon" OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have som e kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic f luid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Dave, I'm not an aircraft mechanic (I find it's way easier and faster to break an airplane that to fix one) but you could have one or both of the outboard " pneudraulic" actuators by-passing pneumatic pressure. Morris Kernick taught me long ago that if you take a clean rag and hold it over and then open the Schraeder valve for the nitrogen bottle any hydrauli c fluid in that system will blow out onto the rag. Best to use a white rag rather than the usual red shop towel for this test. Hydraulic fluid on the rag would show that your pneumatic and hydraulic sys tems are "communicating" with each other. An O-ring rebuild kit may be all that's needed but your statement about hav ing an "interesting time over the last several years with the landing gear actuators," is an interesting statement. ... As in the ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. KHND RNAV Lead FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas NBAA Access Committee Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep -----Original Message----- From: Dave Gerrish Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 12:35 pm Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until t oday. I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My par tner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last several yea rs with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to 300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the res ervoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floor. OK, so I am th inking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of inte rnal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I =99m sure will research this but I am wondering if others have had this kin d of thing happen to them? I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix them th emselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. Dave Gerrish ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:20 PM PST US From: "lloyd silverman" Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? MY 500B HAS HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS. ONE ACTUATOR IN EACH NACELLE IS HYDRAULIC ON ONE END & PNUEMATIC ON THE OTHER END. O RING FAILURES WILL ALLOW THEM TO MIX. MAKE SURE YOU REMOVE THE NITROGEN TANK IN THE BAGGAGE COMPARTMENT DURING THE REPAIR AS IT TENDS TO COLLECT THE FLUID TRAVELING IN THE PNUEMATIC SYSTEM. GOOD LUCK, LLOYD N6290X ----- Original Message ----- From: Keith S. Gordon To: commander-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 5:24 PM Subject: Re: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Dave, I'm not an aircraft mechanic (I find it's way easier and faster to break an airplane that to fix one) but you could have one or both of the outboard "pneudraulic" actuators by-passing pneumatic pressure. Morris Kernick taught me long ago that if you take a clean rag and hold it over and then open the Schraeder valve for the nitrogen bottle any hydraulic fluid in that system will blow out onto the rag. Best to use a white rag rather than the usual red shop towel for this test. Hydraulic fluid on the rag would show that your pneumatic and hydraulic systems are "communicating" with each other. An O-ring rebuild kit may be all that's needed but your statement about having an "interesting time over the last several years with the landing gear actuators," is an interesting statement. ... As in the ancient Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times." Wing Commander Gordon Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere. KHND RNAV Lead FAASTeam Lead Rep, Las Vegas NBAA Access Committee Las Vegas Airspace Users' Council, NBAA Rep Las Vegas RNAV Optimization Work Group, NBAA Rep Las Vegas Class B Redesign Committee, NBAA Rep -----Original Message----- From: Dave Gerrish To: commander-list Sent: Sat, Feb 2, 2013 12:35 pm Subject: Commander-List: Pneumatic leak? Hello fellow Commander enthusiasts. I have been reading the back and forth information on the site for several years but have not chimed in. Until today. I own one half of a 500S, N47AC, based in Warrenton, Virginia KHWY. My partner, Ken Hyde and I have had an interesting time over the last several years with the landing gear actuators. Here is the latest. Earlier in the week I went down to the hangar to preflight and the pneumatic gage was at 150PSI for no known reason, so I pumped it with nitrogen back to 300PSI. Did not fly the airplane. Today I am back in the hangar and there is a big puddle of hydraulic fluid on the floor under the left nacelle. Turns out the reservoir is showing way past full and it looks to me like the fluid just went out in the overflow tube in the reservoir on to the floor. OK, so I am thinking one of the pneumatic main gear actuators must have some kind of internal failure that allows the nitrogen to push the hydraulic fluid into the reservoir and when it gets full, onto the floor it goes. Ken and I I=99m sure will research this but I am wondering if others have had this kind of thing happen to them? I am also wondering if others just get rebuilt, yellow tagged actuators, or if they buy new ones or if they pull the darn things apart and fix them themselves, assuming they meat dimensional specs. Any thoughts or comments would be greatly appreciated. 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