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1. 05:20 AM - Re: AC680F Info (Barry Collman)
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Hello Keith and a big welcome to CommanderLand Glenn!
The winglets are the genuine article, installed under STC SA1381GL on
February 22nd 2005.
I think they do have the recognition lights.
Moe also had the Miller nose installed (STC SA585SW), in January 2002.
Glenn, you=99ll have no doubt noticed that the 680F(P)
isn=99t shown on the Type Certificate Data Sheet No. 2A4 as one of
the specific Models.
This is because the 680F(P) is treated as a Model 680F, the
pressurisation system being considered an optional extra.
You=99ll also no doubt have noticed that the Model shown on the
s/n plate is =9C680F=9D.
The 680F & 680F(P) shared the same Model unit number sequence in their
serial numbers.
For instance, there=99s the following examples:
680F-1202-106, a 680F
680F-1204-107, a 680F(P)
680F-1206-108, a 680F
Best Regards,
Barry Collman
From: owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S.
Gordon
Sent: 07 July 2015 00:49
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC680F Info
The winglets are aftermarket on all piston Commanders (and most
Turbines). Hopefully they're AeroDyne (Commander Aero of Ohio) and not
some of knock-offs that I've seen. Sir Barry should be able to tell you
what's on (soon to be) your plane.
AeroDyne (ala Dick Wartinger) had the winglets for the Aero Commanders
tested in the wind tunnel at Wright-Patterson. According to Dick, it
was determined they were "as good as could be" aerodynamically and are
built by a shop with PMA approval that makes aircraft structural parts.
Reports from owners vary -- some say they see a 5 KIAS increase in
speed, some say they see nothing.
Even Dick Wartinger said the real performance booster are the flap gap
seals.
Certainly there's a number of owners on the list that can give you their
real world experience.
They should not affect V speeds at all; no recertification flight
testing was done to change the flight manual as far as I know. Bill
Leff may have more insight, if he's listening in.
By the way, do the winglets have reocognition lights? Those alone are
worth the install price. in my opinion.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Hancock <glennh@gmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 6, 2015 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC680F Info
Question: The 680Fp that I'm looking at has winglets. Did those come
from the factory with those or aftermarket and if aftermarket, how do
they effect the flying characteristics compared to the number in the
manual?
Thanks,
Glenn
On 7/6/15 3:55 PM, John Vormbaum wrote:
I had a hydraulic failure in my 500B; a hard line in the wing root
fractured. It would have been a flawless landing, but I was seduced by
fluctuating hyd. pressure AFTER I put the gear down, and before the nose
wheel locked. I thought I had enough pressure to cycle the
gear.not the case.
On the bright side, landing at Stockton, I held the nose off until I
lost elevator authority, and veeeeerrry gently set it down on the nose
wheel, which rolled for a bit and then collapsed while still going 5
knots or so. Only consequence was a damaged gear door and one broken
bell crank. Directional control was never in doubt, and with both
engines running, asymmetric thrust made it easy. I think Morris had me
back in the air in a day or two.
The two lessons I learned:
1) Once you put the gear handle down, after a hyd. failure, LEAVE IT
THERE. This was actually beaten into me by Morris and others, but the
beatings evidently didn=99t take.
2) A hydraulic failure in a Commander, even if slightly mismanaged,
isn=99t a crisis unless you have to do some kind of high
performance landing. With enough runway, it matters not.
/John
On Jul 6, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Nick Martin < nick@container.com> wrote:
Wing Commander Gordon,
We fly a 690A . After losing the Hydraulic accumulator in flight we
pulled the breaker on the aux hydraulic and made a safe landing ..Since
then our practice is to pull the aux hydraulic breaker before
takeoff..Is there a reason to leave the breaker in before takeoff and
pull later ? ( possibly steering and breaks )..thanks,Nick N674nm
From: <mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com>
owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com [
<mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com>
mailto:owner-commander-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith S.
Gordon
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC680F Info
Bill,
Glad your outcome was OK. Good bit of piloting there.
Tom, your incident was heart breaking, especially since all of the work
your put into your MR RPM.
I've had 3 total hydraulic failures, (two in a 500A Colemill and one
680FLP) all turned out OK ... but I know the trick.
To give credit where credit is due, Morris Kernick put the bee in my
bonnet about disabling the electric aux hydraulic pump. He put it in
very clear terms while I watched a Commander undergoing an annual at
this hangar in Hayward 25+ years ago.
I thought about what he told me and then looked at it through the
perspective of Ted Smith's next design, the AeroStar. The 'Star did
have a breaker type switch for the electric aux pump specifically to
disable it it cruise.
I think it should be a retrofit on all Commanders with electric aux
hydraulic pumps.
Wing Commander Gordon
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Fisher < <mailto:tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
tfisher@commandergroup.bc.ca>
commander-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 6, 2015 10:28 am
Subject: Re: Commander-List: AC680F Info
I wasn't so lucky with my 680FLP (Mr.RPM), I had zero pressure and with
no flaps, brakes or steering landing was fine but near the end of the
runway it rolled off the side of the runway and traversed a ditch which
finished the plane for me.
Tom
On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 9:14 PM, William Boelte < <mailto:n55bz@cox.net>
n55bz@cox.net> wrote:
Keith,
About four years ago I experienced a complete hydraulic failure in the
only remaining Grand Renaissance Shrike on the way to Fort Worth. The
hydraulic pressure switch developed a leak so that the electric
hydraulic pump would have eventually run dry. I noticed the hydraulic
pressure fluctuate between about zero and 480 psi. I immediately pulled
the Hyd. Pump CB and thought "Keith said to pull this after take off". I
had done it regularly with my own Commander but had slipped into
complacency.
Since I did not know how much hydraulic fluid was left, I elected to
make a no flap landing and save what little may be there for one last
desperate brake attempt. As it turned out I was down to walking speed by
the 6,000 ft turnoff using just aerodynamic braking.
Incidentally the nose gear did not extend on its own on hydraulic
pressure loss. It remained up and locked until I lowered the gear. I had
to slow quite a bit and do two abrupt pull ups to get it down and
locked.
The landing and roll out were uneventful.
Had I used your procedure, I would have lowered the flaps and had brakes
and nose wheel steering available. Thank God for the 8,002' X 200'
runway and that huge AeroCommander tail. I was able to hold the nose
wheel up until about 30 kts. and the rudder made directional control
easy.
Kindest regards,
Bill
On Jul 5, 2015, at 6:09 PM, Keith S. Gordon <
<mailto:cloudcraft@aol.com> cloudcraft@aol.com> wrote:
Glenn,
This will amuse you -- probably force a few hundred questions as well.
Note that the check list is dated. Transponder should be ON for all
movement now that many airports have ASDE-X in operation.
This is for a pressurized model, disregard reference to any of that.
I'm providing this help you develop a flow pattern that will work in all
Commanders and give you some operating ideas on your model.
Speeds are for a long-body model.
If this check list is found at the bottom of a crater with your airplane
on top of it, I do not want to hear from your bereaved widow nor her
attorney; it is only for use by people I have taught how to fly and I'm
not in that business at this time.
Watch the controversy that is caused by my advocating the pulling the
aux hydraulic circuit breaker after gear retraction. This will be
educational for you and after the debate has flamed out, you can come to
your own conclusion.
Wing Commander Gordon
Life is not simple anywhere. Probably less so elsewhere.
<AC680FLP CHECKLIST 1.pdf>
<IGSO540 FUEL FLOW CHART.pdf>
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