Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:34 AM - List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... (Matt Dralle)
1. 07:07 AM - Rivet Set Recommendation? (Sean Stephens)
2. 08:54 AM - Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? (George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ)
3. 10:39 AM - Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? (Sean Stephens)
4. 11:06 AM - rudder stop (TommyLewis@aol.com)
5. 11:08 AM - Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? (PJ Seipel)
6. 11:27 AM - Re: rudder stop (Phillip Perry)
7. 11:27 AM - Re: rudder stop (Tim Olson)
8. 11:40 AM - Re: rudder stop (Kevin Belue)
9. 11:49 AM - Re: rudder stop (Marcus Cooper)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: rudder stop (Jesse Saint)
11. 11:59 AM - Re: Wheel pant spacer replacements (John Gonzalez)
12. 02:27 PM - Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? (Sean Stephens)
13. 03:11 PM - Re: rudder stop (Scott Schmidt)
14. 04:49 PM - Re: rudder stop (gary)
15. 06:34 PM - Keep ethanol-free gas widely available (Dj Merrill)
16. 07:32 PM - Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? (Andy Turner)
17. 07:47 PM - Fw: Pics from Monument Valley Trip (DLM)
18. 07:51 PM - Re: rudder stop (Jim Berry)
19. 08:08 PM - Re: Fw: Pics from Monument Valley Trip (Linn Walters)
20. 08:14 PM - Re: Re: rudder stop (DLM)
21. 08:48 PM - Re: Re: rudder stop (Jesse Saint)
22. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: rudder stop (Albert Gardner)
Message 0
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| Subject: | List Fund Raiser & Some Very Nice Comments... |
Dear Listers,
I've been getting some really nice comments from Listers along with their List
Support Contributions. I've shared some of them below. Please read them over
and see what your fellow Listers think of the Lists and Forums.
Please make a Contribution today to support the continued upgrade and operation
of these services.
There are lots of sweet gifts available, so browse the extensive selection and
pickup a nice item along with your qualifying Contribution.
Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Or drop a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you in advance for your generous support! It is very much appreciated!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
-------------------------------------------------------
You are providing a great service. Thanks so very much.
David L
Keep up the good work! A great website - wish I'd found it earlier!
Bob S
Thanks for providing a site for information.
Jim S
Thanks again for providing a great service to our community!
Alex M
Thanks and keep up the good work!
Robert B.
Great forum!
David S
Thanks for providing the Kolb List for the last 12 years.
John H
Long time lurker, it's a great resource...many thanks.
Ian C
Your work and effort are greatly appreciated.
Nicolas L
Thank you very much for keeping the list going!
Svein J
Thank you for your support to the community.
Valin T
I am a long time subscriber and a slow builder because of
work and two moves, but still enjoy the process and your
list.
CL M
Thanks for providing this service. It can't be beat!
Thomas W
I'm no longer a builder or flier but I like to keep in touch with
the List - which is the best organised list I've seen on the Internet.
Gerry C
Matt, you are doing a GREAT service to the community of KOLB
Builders and Flyers.
John B
I've been flying for almost two years and still find these Lists as a great
resource for information.....now I get to answer a question once-in-a-while too.
Ralph C
Thanks for this great service.
Dale E
I couldn't keep on building without the support I get from this List.
Thomas S
This is a great service to all of us.
Michael W
I am no longer actively building, but I really like to keep up with what's
going on, and I especially like to follow Bob Nuckolls - and your RV-8.
Terrence W
I really appreciate your work and consider the lists to be a great value.
Christopher R
Thanks Matt for a great resource!
Geoff T
Many thanks for providing this service. I love it.
William V
One of the best Internet Deals going...
Owen B
Thanks for the great site.
Danny S
A valuable resource.
George A
Thanks for running a great list.
Ted P
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rivet Set Recommendation? |
What have others used for a rivet set to get the rivets on the fuse
skins next to the spar carry through in the attached pic? I don't have
a swivel flush set, but maybe that would work?
Thanks,
-Sean #40303
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rivet Set Recommendation? |
I believe I'd back-shoot those...
neal
===============
What have others used for a rivet set to get the rivets on the fuse skins
next to the spar carry through in the attached pic? I don't have a swivel
flush set, but maybe that would work?
Thanks,
-Sean #40303
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? |
The shop side of these are inside the side channel, so they can't be
back shot. The forward ones can, but not the aft side.
On 11/15/10 10:44 AM, George, Neal E Capt USAF ACC 505 TRS/DOJ wrote:
> I believe I'd back-shoot those...
>
> neal
>
> ===============
> What have others used for a rivet set to get the rivets on the fuse skins
> next to the spar carry through in the attached pic? I don't have a swivel
> flush set, but maybe that would work?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>
Message 4
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Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the
bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply
riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there an after
market replacement???
Thanks,
Tom Lewis
Granbury, Tx
RV10 N143EB
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? |
I used http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,3673.html
The face is curved enough to give you room for the rivet gun and still
keep it flat on the rivet.
PJ Seipel
RV-10 #40032
On 11/15/2010 10:04 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:
> What have others used for a rivet set to get the rivets on the fuse
> skins next to the spar carry through in the attached pic? I don't have a
> swivel flush set, but maybe that would work?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>
Message 6
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Tom,
You can use screws to hold the stops in position. They'll hold up much
better in shear.
Van's even made that change on their demo planes. If you look closely
you'll see they've changed them all to screws.
Phil
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 1:02 PM, <TommyLewis@aol.com> wrote:
> Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
> broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the
> bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply
> riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there an
> after market replacement???
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Lewis
> Granbury, Tx
> RV10 N143EB
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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I've heard of people doing it both ways...some have used
Rivets and some have used screws. My only thought is
that if you do indeed replace the rivets with something,
you may actually not want to replace it with something
too strong. If you make it too strong, the forces may
be transferred to other parts, and you may end up
breaking something else. Ultimately, the way to
prevent the problem is to make sure to always use a
rudder gust lock, and make sure that the one you use
is strong enough to withstand whatever is thrown at it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 11/15/2010 1:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
> Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
> broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the
> bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply
> riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there
> an after market replacement???
> Thanks,
> Tom Lewis
> Granbury, Tx
> RV10 N143EB
>
Message 8
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I've found the stock rudder stop to be just about useless. I had to leave my
RV10 outside overnight and the next day the wind sheared the stops. It didn
't take but about 30 min. Anyway, there's a guy on Van's Airforce website th
at makes a plastic stop that you bolt to the metal hinge bracket that works m
uch better.
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 15, 2010, at 1:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
> Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has b
roken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the botto
m of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply riveted i
t back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there an after mark
et replacement???
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Lewis
> Granbury, Tx
> RV10 N143EB
>
>
>
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
==========================
=========
Message 9
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Concur with Tim on the gust lock, the rudder can really get knocked around
in a stiff breeze. FWIW I have just been using a cargo strap hooked into a
lightening hole on each horizontal stab and wrapped around the tail light.
Locks the rudder in place great, was free (already had the strap) but isn't
going to win in style points. There are certainly more elegant methods guys
are using, I've just been to cheap/lazy to try one.
As for the rudder stop, there is a nylon aftermarket that I bought but can't
remember who had them. I suggest a search of the archives.
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rudder stop
I've heard of people doing it both ways...some have used
Rivets and some have used screws. My only thought is
that if you do indeed replace the rivets with something,
you may actually not want to replace it with something
too strong. If you make it too strong, the forces may
be transferred to other parts, and you may end up
breaking something else. Ultimately, the way to
prevent the problem is to make sure to always use a
rudder gust lock, and make sure that the one you use
is strong enough to withstand whatever is thrown at it.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 11/15/2010 1:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
> Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
> broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the
> bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply
> riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there
> an after market replacement???
> Thanks,
> Tom Lewis
> Granbury, Tx
> RV10 N143EB
>
Message 10
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I've looked at the plastic stop and decided not to install it. I just
redrill the parts #28 and put in a #6 screw with the nut between the
brackets. I noticed on N220RV that Van's had done the same thing when I
visited the factory. I'm a little surprised that they didn't modify the
manuals to do it that way, but I think that's a sufficient fix for the
rivets. As Tim said, the best solution is to get a gust lock that will
hold the rudder. The stops are mainly there to have a good hard point
to keep the rudder from over-controlling and hitting the elevator and to
verify that there is no obstruction in the rudder pedals or cables to
get full travel. Letting the rudder hit the stops in the wind is bad
news. Whether the stops sheer or not, the rudder can be damaged if this
is allowed to happen. I've seen a rudder that had to be completely
replaced because it was banging up against the stops and the trailing
edge was badly distorted because of a severe impact against the stop in
high wind.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
> Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side
has broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in
the bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you
simply riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is
there an after market replacement???
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Lewis
> Granbury, Tx
> RV10 N143EB
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wheel pant spacer replacements |
Marvelous design=2C like materials=2C drastically increased surface area. W
onderful...Thank you!
John G.
> Subject: RV10-List: Wheel pant spacer replacements
> From: sean@braunandco.com
> Date: Sat=2C 13 Nov 2010 21:20:29 -0800
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>
>
> I decided to make them for me after Tim's write-up. It was good timing si
nce I could easily switch mine out and not wait until they wear out. I put
them on PlaneAround.com if anyone is interested in this model. They are one
piece. You have to take the axle bolt out to install them but it took me a
bout ten minutes to switch them out.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319306#319306
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? |
Thanks for the link. For some reason the Yard Store slipped my mind.
I'm wondering if I'd get additional use out of a flush "C" set which
also seems like it would do the job.
http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,3664.html
-Sean #40303
On 11/15/10 1:06 PM, PJ Seipel wrote:
> I used http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,3673.html
>
> The face is curved enough to give you room for the rivet gun and still
> keep it flat on the rivet.
>
> PJ Seipel
> RV-10 #40032
>
> On 11/15/2010 10:04 AM, Sean Stephens wrote:
>> What have others used for a rivet set to get the rivets on the fuse
>> skins next to the spar carry through in the attached pic? I don't have a
>> swivel flush set, but maybe that would work?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Sean #40303
>>
>>
Message 13
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I have had this happen to me as well. My first rudder lock was not very robust
and high winds at Las Vegas caused it to slip out of the pedals which then
caused my rudder to shear the stops and damage the rudder. I was able to repair
and replace the stops with #6 screws. I never walk away from my plane without
putting the rudder lock in even if I am just running to the bathroom. One blast
from a taxiing plane will damage that rudder.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
________________________________
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 12:55:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rudder stop
I've looked at the plastic stop and decided not to install it. I just redrill
the parts #28 and put in a #6 screw with the nut between the brackets. I
noticed on N220RV that Van's had done the same thing when I visited the factory.
I'm a little surprised that they didn't modify the manuals to do it that way,
but I think that's a sufficient fix for the rivets. As Tim said, the best
solution is to get a gust lock that will hold the rudder. The stops are mainly
there to have a good hard point to keep the rudder from over-controlling and
hitting the elevator and to verify that there is no obstruction in the rudder
pedals or cables to get full travel. Letting the rudder hit the stops in the
wind is bad news. Whether the stops sheer or not, the rudder can be damaged if
this is allowed to happen. I've seen a rudder that had to be completely
replaced because it was banging up against the stops and the trailing edge was
badly distorted because of a severe impact against the stop in high wind.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the bottom
of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply riveted it
back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there an after market
replacement???
>
>Thanks,
>Tom Lewis
>Granbury, Tx
>RV10 N143EB
>
>
>
>href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
>href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
Message 14
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One solution to the floppy rudder is to install rudder return springs. I do
not have near the flopping as my non spring friends. It is cheap, easy and
keeps the cables nice and snug.
Gary Specketer
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rudder stop
I have had this happen to me as well. My first rudder lock was not very
robust and high winds at Las Vegas caused it to slip out of the pedals which
then caused my rudder to shear the stops and damage the rudder. I was able
to repair and replace the stops with #6 screws. I never walk away from my
plane without putting the rudder lock in even if I am just running to the
bathroom. One blast from a taxiing plane will damage that rudder.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt@yahoo.com
_____
From: Jesse Saint <jesse@saintaviation.com>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 12:55:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rudder stop
I've looked at the plastic stop and decided not to install it. I just
redrill the parts #28 and put in a #6 screw with the nut between the
brackets. I noticed on N220RV that Van's had done the same thing when I
visited the factory. I'm a little surprised that they didn't modify the
manuals to do it that way, but I think that's a sufficient fix for the
rivets. As Tim said, the best solution is to get a gust lock that will hold
the rudder. The stops are mainly there to have a good hard point to keep
the rudder from over-controlling and hitting the elevator and to verify that
there is no obstruction in the rudder pedals or cables to get full travel.
Letting the rudder hit the stops in the wind is bad news. Whether the stops
sheer or not, the rudder can be damaged if this is allowed to happen. I've
seen a rudder that had to be completely replaced because it was banging up
against the stops and the trailing edge was badly distorted because of a
severe impact against the stop in high wind.
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Nov 15, 2010, at 2:02 PM, TommyLewis@aol.com wrote:
Over the weekend I found that the RV10 rudder stop on the right side has
broken, the rivets had been sheared. The rudder stop was laying in the
bottom of the rudder. When this has happened to others, have you simply
riveted it back on, or replaced rivets with #8 or #6 bolts, or is there an
after market replacement???
Thanks,
Tom Lewis
Granbury, Tx
RV10 N143EB
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com/">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com/">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com/">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="
Message 15
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| Subject: | Keep ethanol-free gas widely available |
I'm not sure if this is going to help, but we can at least try. Please
look at this website, and if you think it is worthwhile trying to sign a
petition saving ethanol free fuel, please sign and pass along to others
that you feel might be interested.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-pure-gas/
Thanks,
-Dj
--
Dj Merrill - N1JOV
Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/
Please use Netiquette Guidelines http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855
Kindly TRIM your email replies and post AFTER the relevant text
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rivet Set Recommendation? |
I worried about those rivets and put them off for a while, as well as the rivets
around the rear spar attach. Turned out though that my Avery swivel flush set
worked fine. I pushed the rubber guard up against the spar, and there was just
enough room to get good meat on the rivet, if that makes sense.
--------
Andy Turner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319534#319534
Message 17
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| Subject: | Fw: Pics from Monument Valley Trip |
A friend flew my 10 to Monument Valley.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Hodgdon
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 11:19 AM
Subject: Pics from Monument Valley Trip
Great trip yesterday to Monument Valley Airport! The identifier for the
private Monument Valley Airport run by Gouldings Lodge, is UT25 or 71V
on Airnav.com, but neither appears in the Chelton's database. I knew
from a previous flight that the airport was just about due north from
Kayenta (0V7) so I flew a bit east of that and then along the valley
till the airport and two hotels were in sight. As advertised, there is
really no option for a late go-around at this airport so I had the
airspeed and approach nailed *very* early. One of my better landings.
Had lunch and departed for a quick tour around Monument Valley.
Refueled in Winslow, then a quick turn around the meteor crater and back
to Falcon.
The 10 flew great, 151/155ktas @ 9,500' burning 9.5gph. Can't ask for
much more than that!
Here are a couple of links to the airport information.
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueAS99/monument.html
http://www.gouldings.com/more/airport-information/
http://gouldings.com/new/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Gouldings_Airport_Rul
es.pdf
Note that the information on the SWAviator website article is over *11
years old* and several things are incorrect, most notably the
description of the runway being partially paved and only 4,000x50'.
It's actually fully paved and 4000x75'. It was about a 5 minute walk
from the plane to the restaurant, and the bacon cheeseburger I had was
pretty good!
The Gouldings Lodge website has the most current information. They want
commercial traffic to park on the paved ramp area and GA to park on the
gravel but I wasn't going to taxi over gravel so I just parked in the
back of the ramp area. Plenty of room for a C208 and C206 to park just
before we departed.
Thanks Dave!
Tom
Message 18
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Does anyone have a bomb-proof rudder lock that they are really happy with?
Jim Berry
N15JB
Phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319535#319535
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: Pics from Monument Valley Trip |
Message 20
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I have two 1x1x.062 angles each 30" with a foam strip
RTVed to a side. a center hole for an AN4 bolt is centered on each angle.
The threaded shaft that connects the two angles passes between the rudder
and the fuselage. It is held on with a lock nut on one end and a wingnut on
the other. weighs about a pound and is carried in the tiedown bag. the wind
would probably break the entire tail cone off before breaking the rudder
lock. Not dainty or elegant but sturdy and sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Berry" <jimberry@qwest.net>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder stop
>
> Does anyone have a bomb-proof rudder lock that they are really happy with?
>
> Jim Berry
> N15JB
> Phase 1
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319535#319535
>
>
>
Message 21
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I am very happy with the modified bogi-bar as a gust lock. I think I've posted
a picture before. I'll try to take one tomorrow and post it. As I see it, it
would be almost impossible for it to come loose if installed correctly. The
plane that had the rudder destroyed had the spring-loaded gust lock installed,
but it broke from the force of the wind.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse@saintaviation.com
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
On Nov 15, 2010, at 10:47 PM, Jim Berry wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a bomb-proof rudder lock that they are really happy with?
>
> Jim Berry
> N15JB
> Phase 1
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319535#319535
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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This one is cheap and effective. Easy to install and store away.
Albert Gardner
N991RV
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Berry
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 8:47 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: rudder stop
Does anyone have a bomb-proof rudder lock that they are really happy with?
Jim Berry
N15JB
Phase 1
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=319535#319535
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