<pre><b>
           ----------------------------------------------------------
                           AeroElectric-List Digest Archive
                                      ---
                     Total Messages Posted Wed 01/03/18: 12
           ----------------------------------------------------------
 
 
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:42 AM - Re: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind  (Bob Verwey)
     2. 07:27 AM - Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind  (user9253)
     3. 07:48 AM - Re: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind  (C&K)
     4. 08:47 AM - Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind  (user9253)
     5. 08:56 AM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe   (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature Ind  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 09:38 AM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)  (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 10:58 AM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe  ()
     9. 11:49 AM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe  (Rene)
    10. 12:13 PM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)  (Christopher Cee Stone)
    11. 06:05 PM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)  (William Hunter)
    12. 07:18 PM - Re: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)  (Bill Maxwell)
 
 
________________________________  Message 1  _____________________________________


Time: 02:42:53 AM PST US
From: Bob Verwey <bob.verwey@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke  Engine
Temperature Ind

Joe is the operating voltage not an issue?

On 02 Jan 2018 8:33 PM, "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work?
> https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html
>
> --------
> Joe Gores
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477017#477017
>
>

________________________________  Message 2  _____________________________________


Time: 07:27:33 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Ind
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>


No, the operating voltage is not a concern.  The switch is rated for 2 amps at
24 VDC.  That probably equates to 3 or 4 amps at 12 volts.  If an indicator lamp
is chosen that uses less than 1 amp, it should be fine.  The switch is available
as either normally open or normally closed.  There is a 50-50 chance of
getting it right.  The original poster probably wants the normally closed switch.
Another concern is selecting the correct operating temperature.  And there
is the life expectancy issue when subject to the vibration of a 2 cycle engine.

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477046#477046


________________________________  Message 3  _____________________________________


Time: 07:48:51 AM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke  Engine
Temperature Ind
From: C&K <yellowduckduo@gmail.com>


A tiny keychain size infra red thermometers for $12. might be more 
useful and less trouble to set up.
No calibration issues and fairly vibration resistant.
Remote mounting of the display might be possible.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-Digital-Non-Contact-IR-Infrared-LCD-Thermometer-DT-300-Black-UD6-LD/161818543747?hash=item25ad230683:g:SbkAAOSw0JpV7YxU
Ken


________________________________  Message 4  _____________________________________


Time: 08:47:46 AM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go 2-Stroke Engine Temperature
Ind
From: "user9253" <fransew@gmail.com>


Is it feasible to mount the infrared red thermometer, suggested by YellowDuck,
inside of the cockpit and use a fiber optic cable to transmit the engine heat
through the firewall to the thermometer?

--------
Joe Gores


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=477049#477049


________________________________  Message 5  _____________________________________


Time: 08:56:28 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe 

At 11:01 AM 1/2/2018, you wrote:
><billhuntersemail@gmail.com>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I've been working like crazy on my project and am getting ready to fly soon!!!
>
>One obstacle (among many) is a solution to my header tank fuel level 
>sensor.  I have a 5 gallon fiberglass header tank that the two wing 
>tanks gravity flow into and then the engine uses this header tank as 
>its sole source of fuel so it is good to know if this header tank is 
>full.  It had an ON/OFF float switch however that switch is no 
>longer working and I tried to unscrew the float switch to replace it 
>however it is so tight that I am worried the plastic body/hex nut 
>will break off so it is best at this point to just leave it 
>installed as a "plug" and pursue another solution.
>
>Has anyone used a MODA tank sensor kit from tankedge.com ?
>
>https://tankedge.com/accessories.html
>
>It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank 
>with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape.  Somehow it 
>measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the 
>fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall.

   This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity
   sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll
   inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two
   electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form
   a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of
   tank material and air.

   When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance
   goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For
   metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall
   to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance.


   Bob . . . 

________________________________  Message 6  _____________________________________


Time: 09:38:58 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Simplest way for a go/no-go   2-Stroke  Engine
Temperature Ind

At 08:39 PM 1/2/2018, you wrote:
><ceengland7@gmail.com>
>
>On 1/2/2018 12:26 PM, user9253 wrote:
>>
>>Perhaps some kind of temperature switch would work?
>>https://www.omega.com/pptst/TSW-TT.html
>>
>>--------
>>Joe Gores
>I like Joe's find. Still have to watch the max temp, though.


   Another option uses the Analog Devices thermocouple
   conditioners in a on-off switching mode.

https://goo.gl/7ufeaL

   Here's a simplified schematic . . .

Emacs!


   Instead of driving a heater control relay, one could
   drive an LED indicator light directly from the
   signal conditioner's output . . .

   This would let you connect directly to the cylinder
   head with appropriate thermocouple material.


   Bob . . . 

________________________________  Message 7  _____________________________________


Time: 09:38:59 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe   (addendum)


>>It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank 
>>with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape.  Somehow it 
>>measures the resistance between the two strips and determines the 
>>fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall.
>
>   This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity
>   sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll
>   inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two
>   electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form
>   a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of
>   tank material and air.
>
>   When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance
>   goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For
>   metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall
>   to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance.

   Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a
   capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level
   sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level
   capacity transducer products out there.

   Recent developments in resolving capacity has
   spawned a variety of low cost instruments that
   will measure capacitance with good accuracy
   down into the picoFarads territory.

   There's a pretty simple methodology for using
   pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own
   capacity liquid level measurement system wherein
   the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of
   wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being
   sensed.

   For the product cited above, the sensor is either
   copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic
   tank . . . or some analog built into the
   probe.

   This could be paired with a comparator that drives
   a 'tank full' indicator light.


   Bob . . . 

________________________________  Message 8  _____________________________________


Time: 10:58:46 AM PST US
From: <jim@PoogieBearRanch.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe


How about using this: 
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/bingo-liquid-detector/

It was designed for this exact purchase, and Jim Wiebe (designer/owner)
created it to indicate when a specific "bingo" (low fuel) level occurred
in header tanks and in-wing fuel tanks, as a backup to the fuel gauges.
(He has some pretty terrific fuel level sensors, as well for the
experimental crowd.) 

You install this detector at whatever level in the fuel tank you choose,
and it alerts you when the liquid level drops below that point. The LED
indicator is normally green when the level is above the "bingo" level,
and if/when it drops below that point, it flashes red for 10 seconds,
then goes solid red. 

Installation seems dirt simple, and it seems to work with just about any
liquid. There's a video demonstrating it on that page also.  Currently
on sale for $69.95.  

Jim Parker


________________________________  Message 9  _____________________________________


Time: 11:49:30 AM PST US
From: "Rene" <rene@felker.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe


I have a system similar to that in my RV-10.  1 in each tank at the 3 gallon level.
Only really use it when I want to run a tank dry.  If the tank sloshes,
then I do get some false alarms when it is bumpy.  I use my float gages to alarm
at 5 gallons left.

Rene'
801-721-6080

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@PoogieBearRanch.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe


How about using this: 
http://www.beliteaircraftstore.com/bingo-liquid-detector/

It was designed for this exact purchase, and Jim Wiebe (designer/owner) created
it to indicate when a specific "bingo" (low fuel) level occurred in header tanks
and in-wing fuel tanks, as a backup to the fuel gauges.
(He has some pretty terrific fuel level sensors, as well for the experimental crowd.)


You install this detector at whatever level in the fuel tank you choose, and it
alerts you when the liquid level drops below that point. The LED indicator is
normally green when the level is above the "bingo" level, and if/when it drops
below that point, it flashes red for 10 seconds, then goes solid red. 

Installation seems dirt simple, and it seems to work with just about any liquid.
There's a video demonstrating it on that page also.  Currently on sale for $69.95.


Jim Parker


________________________________  Message 10  ____________________________________


Time: 12:13:27 PM PST US
From: Christopher Cee Stone <rv8iator@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)

Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing by
capacitive sense:

http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001

-chris stone


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <
nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> wrote:

> It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank with dual
> parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape.  Somehow it measures the
> resistance between the two strips and determines the fuel quantity on the
> other side of the tank wall.
>
>
>   This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity
>   sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll
>   inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two
>   electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form
>   a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of
>   tank material and air.
>
>   When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance
>   goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For
>   metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall
>   to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance.
>
>
>   Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a
>   capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level
>   sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level
>   capacity transducer products out there.
>
>   Recent developments in resolving capacity has
>   spawned a variety of low cost instruments that
>   will measure capacitance with good accuracy
>   down into the picoFarads territory.
>
>   There's a pretty simple methodology for using
>   pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own
>   capacity liquid level measurement system wherein
>   the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of
>   wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being
>   sensed.
>
>   For the product cited above, the sensor is either
>   copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic
>   tank . . . or some analog built into the
>   probe.
>
>   This could be paired with a comparator that drives
>   a 'tank full' indicator light.
>
>
>   Bob . . .
>

________________________________  Message 11  ____________________________________


Time: 06:05:35 PM PST US
From: "William Hunter" <billhuntersemail@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)

Thanks all for your help!!!


Good information.


..


Cheers!!!


Bill  Hunter


From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com 
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Cee Stone
Sent: Wednesday, January 3, 2018 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe 
(addendum)


Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing by 
capacitive sense:


http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001


-chris stone


On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III 
<nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com> > 
wrote:

It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank with 
dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape.  Somehow it measures 
the resistance between the two strips and determines the fuel quantity 
on the other side of the tank wall.


  This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity
  sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll
  inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two
  electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form
  a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of
  tank material and air.

  When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance
  goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For
  metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall
  to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance. 


  Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a
  capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level
  sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level
  capacity transducer products out there.

  Recent developments in resolving capacity has
  spawned a variety of low cost instruments that
  will measure capacitance with good accuracy
  down into the picoFarads territory.

  There's a pretty simple methodology for using
  pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own
  capacity liquid level measurement system wherein
  the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of
  wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being
  sensed.

  For the product cited above, the sensor is either
  copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic
  tank . . . or some analog built into the
  probe.

  This could be paired with a comparator that drives
  a 'tank full' indicator light.


  Bob . . . 


________________________________  Message 12  ____________________________________


Time: 07:18:31 PM PST US
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Tech Edge "MODA" Fuel Level Probe (addendum)
From: Bill Maxwell <wrmaxwell@bigpond.com>

Interesting device. I wonder though whether a metal tank's contents can 
be measured as effectively by this device when mounted externally?


On 4/01/2018 7:12 AM, Christopher Cee Stone wrote:
> Texas Instruments has a chip level solution for liquid level sensing 
> by capacitive sense:
>
> http://www.ti.com/general/docs/video/watch.tsp?entryid=4279163138001
>
> -chris stone
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 3, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III 
> <nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com <mailto:nuckolls.bob@aeroelectric.com>> 
> wrote:
>
>>>     It is a sensor that attaches to the outside of a fiberglass tank
>>>     with dual parallel strips of aluminum and copper tape. Somehow
>>>     it measures the resistance between the two strips and determines
>>>     the fuel quantity on the other side of the tank wall.
>>
>>      This is probably an adaptation of the 'capacity
>>      sensor' widely used on touch pads for manual controll
>>      inputs. It senses a change in capacity. The two
>>      electrodes attached to the outside of the tank form
>>      a capacitor in which the dielectric is composed of
>>      tank material and air.
>>
>>      When fuel fills up the air space, the capacitance
>>      goes up sharply and the electronics senses this. For
>>      metal tanks, they need to penetrate the tank wall
>>      to get at the change in air-to-fuel capacitance.
>
>      Okay, looking closer reveals that this is a
>      capacity fuel gaging system, not just a level
>      sensor. There is a whole new class of liquid level
>      capacity transducer products out there.
>
>      Recent developments in resolving capacity has
>      spawned a variety of low cost instruments that
>      will measure capacitance with good accuracy
>      down into the picoFarads territory.
>
>      There's a pretty simple methodology for using
>      pic/arduino DIY processors to implement your own
>      capacity liquid level measurement system wherein
>      the sensor is nothing more than a twisted pair of
>      wires with insulation impervious to the liquid being
>      sensed.
>
>      For the product cited above, the sensor is either
>      copper foil electrodes on the outside of the plastic
>      tank . . . or some analog built into the
>      probe.
>
>      This could be paired with a comparator that drives
>      a 'tank full' indicator light.
>
>
>      Bob . . .
>
>


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