Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:24 AM - Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? (Dennis O'Connor)
2. 05:39 AM - Pressure Sensors (Gary Casey)
3. 09:11 AM - Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? (Martini Luc J.R.)
4. 09:29 AM - Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? (Martini Luc J.R.)
5. 09:45 AM - Re: adaptor fitting (John Loram)
6. 01:42 PM - Re: Coolent flow (Grant Corriveau)
7. 04:54 PM - Re: Coolent flow (Tim & Diane Shankland)
8. 04:57 PM - Re: Coolent flow (Tim & Diane Shankland)
9. 05:24 PM - Fuel Injection 0-360 (David Schaefer)
10. 06:15 PM - Engine Instruments for Subaru (Jeff & Leslie)
11. 06:52 PM - Possible props for an IO-520 "D" (N823ms@aol.com)
12. 07:39 PM - Re: Possible props for an IO-520 "D" (Cy Galley)
13. 07:47 PM - Re: Coolent flow (Jim and Lucy)
14. 08:06 PM - Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru (Jim and Lucy)
15. 09:15 PM - Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru (Tim Andres)
16. 09:21 PM - Re: Coolent flow (Tracy Crook)
17. 09:48 PM - Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru (Tracy Crook)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Darn, I have actively building engines for over five
decades, and I just learned something new... Let's see if I understand
this...
If I take a factory cam with say 0.400" lift and replace it with an
aftermarket cam with 0.500" lift, and then one of the cam lobes wears down
to 0.400" lift I now have blow by... Well did you ever... Will wonders
never cease...
Denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martini@foxinternet.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
<martini@foxinternet.net>
>
> Another possibility to consider is wear of the cam... Yep.. if a cam lobe
> wears, you get not some only loss of power initially, but in short order a
> lot of blow-by, that in turn will cause oil will come nearly gushing out
of
> the seals as well as the breather. I would suspect this if you had a cam
> reground and/or the engine sat a relatively long time (known to cause
> pitting of the tapets followed by rapid cam wear.
>
> Luc Martini
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
> <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
> >
> >
> > "Is it spinning the seal?"
> >
> > No, the seal itself is not spinning in the case. It looks like it is
just
> > leaking out in between the crank and the seal, like the spring wasn't
> there,
> > but I know it is there, and in place. I ran the engine for about 10
> minutes
> > at 1000-1200 to let it warm up before I gave it full power. I felt the
oil
> > filter to make sure the oil was warm before adding power. It didn't leak
> any
> > oil until I opened it up.
> >
> > Thanks for the tip, though.
> > Linc
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Pressure Sensors |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
<<It is considered poor practice to mount any kind of sender on the engine.
The vibration will destroy it. You should mount it solidly on the firewall
or engine mount and connect it to the engine with a flexible hose or tube.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
Subject: Engines-List: adaptor fitting
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
>
> I am using an oil temp. probe that is 1/8 tapered pipe thread that has to
fit into the oil sender hole on my Lycoming O360 either the accessory case
hole or the oil filter adaptor which are the same size 5/8-18 straight
thread. I haven't been able to locate an adaptor for this. Has anyone run
into this before?>>
I think the original question was about TEMPERATURE sensor probe, which have
to be mounted directly to the engine. As for PRESSURE sensors, we (Kavlico)
build pressure sensors for aircraft engine applications, some of which are
direct-mounted to the engine. These are for both oil and fuel pressure. It
depends on the ruggedness of the sensor and the vibration level of the
environment as to whether they can be direct-mounted. To say that the
vibration will destroy any sensor is an oversimplification. Incidentally,
some of our sensors are remote-plumbed from the source, but then
hard-mounted to the cooling shroud. Go figure. The cooling shroud could
easily amplify the engine vibration, making it worse than a direct-mount.
Gary Casey
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." <martini@foxinternet.net>
No, but if you do a regrind and fail to nitrate properly, and or you have
pitting on the tappet face, you will roundout the cam lobe... and raw fuel
scouring of the cylinder walls will in short order cause blow-by.... and I
have had it happen on 2 engines in my 40 years as a field service engineer.
L.M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor"
<doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
> Darn, I have actively building engines for over five
> decades, and I just learned something new... Let's see if I understand
> this...
> If I take a factory cam with say 0.400" lift and replace it with an
> aftermarket cam with 0.500" lift, and then one of the cam lobes wears down
> to 0.400" lift I now have blow by... Well did you ever... Will wonders
> never cease...
>
> Denny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Martini Luc J.R." <martini@foxinternet.net>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R."
> <martini@foxinternet.net>
> >
> > Another possibility to consider is wear of the cam... Yep.. if a cam
lobe
> > wears, you get not some only loss of power initially, but in short order
a
> > lot of blow-by, that in turn will cause oil will come nearly gushing out
> of
> > the seals as well as the breather. I would suspect this if you had a
cam
> > reground and/or the engine sat a relatively long time (known to cause
> > pitting of the tapets followed by rapid cam wear.
> >
> > Luc Martini
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
> > To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
> >
> >
> > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
> > <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > "Is it spinning the seal?"
> > >
> > > No, the seal itself is not spinning in the case. It looks like it is
> just
> > > leaking out in between the crank and the seal, like the spring wasn't
> > there,
> > > but I know it is there, and in place. I ran the engine for about 10
> > minutes
> > > at 1000-1200 to let it warm up before I gave it full power. I felt the
> oil
> > > filter to make sure the oil was warm before adding power. It didn't
leak
> > any
> > > oil until I opened it up.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the tip, though.
> > > Linc
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Front seal leaking. WHY? |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." <martini@foxinternet.net>
Since it is so easy.. I would do a compression check before I went through
the trouble of pulling the seal. Blow-by will definitely cause the
symptoms... as to why??? The compression check should at least elliminate a
few of the possibilities. Are these NEW Cylinders or Reworked and channel
chromed??? Did you measure them for our of round limits and taper?
The GOBS of power elliminates cam wear as the problem, cause you loose
power well before you see the oil streaks.
Luc
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Front seal leaking. WHY?
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
<flyseaplane@netzero.net>
>
> "Another possibility to consider is wear of the cam....."
>
> Ummmm.......shouldn't be. It's all new stuff (well, yellow tagged
re-manned,
> or whatever) and the engine was pickled properly after assembly and before
> storage three years ago.
> It has GOBS of power. Warp Drive said to set the prop at 10 degrees of
> pitch, I decided to go with 13 degrees to load the engine up harder to get
> the rings to seat in. It almost hit redline. I didn't have a spring scale
> tied on the tailwheel, but the amount of thrust produced during the test
run
> was unbelievable. I'm really curious to see how she flies.
> I really don't think it is the cam - the rings may not be seated yet, but
I
> still don't think that would cause the oil to seep out. I'll have some
time
> off tomorrow and I'll look everything over. Maybe pull the seal and have
> look at it.
>
> Thanks guys,
> Linc
>
>
Message 5
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--> Engines-List message posted by: John Loram <johnl@loram.org>
I would have to strongly disagree; most senders (another name for sensors)
are mounted directly on the engine. This is true for both aircraft and
automotive applications. Including; the oil temperature and pressure
senders, the CHT and EGT senders, the carb temperature sender, etc, etc. In
fact, I don't recall in 50 years seeing any sender mounted on the firewall.
Perhaps the writer was referring to the gauge (readout) rather than the
sender.
-john-
john@loram.org
www.loram.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim & Jeanette Oberst [mailto:joberst@cox-internet.com]
Subject: Re: Engines-List: adaptor fitting
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Jim & Jeanette Oberst"
<joberst@cox-internet.com>
It is considered poor practice to mount any kind of sender on the engine.
The vibration will destroy it. You should mount it solidly on the firewall
or engine mount and connect it to the engine with a flexible hose or tube.
Jim Oberst
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
Subject: Engines-List: adaptor fitting
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
>
> I am using an oil temp. probe that is 1/8 tapered pipe thread that has to
fit into the oil sender hole on my Lycoming O360 either the accessory case
hole or the oil filter adaptor which are the same size 5/8-18 straight
thread. I haven't been able to locate an adaptor for this. Has anyone run
into this before?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Coolent flow |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Grant Corriveau <grantC@ca.inter.net>
on 03/01/21 23:25, Jim and Lucy at jpollard@mnsi.net wrote:
...
> This kind of thing would be more suited to the airsoob group
>
>
> Jim Pollard
> ch601hds
> ea81
Jim,
I respectfully disagree. This kind of information, though specific to the
soob, does give other engine-users such as myself some ballpark information
about water cooling systems in general. It also provides interesting
background regarding who's doing what 'out there' in the group. This might
come in handy some day - we never know what other areas of expertise and
experience we'll hope to draw on in the future.
I personally encourage all types of postings that are 'relavant to the
Zodiac on SOME LEVEL' - I.E. very indirect is fine with me. (maybe a 'copy'
of such a note to both lists would be a useful strategy?)
do not archive
--
Grant Corriveau
Montreal
Zodiac 601hds/CAM100
C-GHTF
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Coolent flow |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Thanks for reply, I am presently experimenting with both a 8x6x2 heater
core and a 8x10x3 evaporator core. My point is I'm trying to do this in
a very analytical was. First characterize the heat exchanger, then
knowing just what volumes and pressure I'll need then design the air
ducts. I'm sure as you have found water cooling has less "common
knowledge" available and because of the lower temperatures requires more
care in the design of the cooling system. I want to take all efforts to
design it right the first time and not have to rebuilt the fiberglass
cowling I'll be using.
Tim Shankland
flyseaplane wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
>
>"I am presently designing a cooling system for my Stratus. I plan to have
>the radiators inside the cowling."
>
>Mr. Shankland,
>Belted Air Power in Nevada uses a couple of aluminum A/C evaporator cores,
>one in each cowl inlet. I have used these evaporator cores as radiators for
>Rotax 912 installations, as well. ( just one needed for the 912 )
>If a pair will cool a Buick V8 then they'll cool your Stratus Subaru. Even
>one may be enough. You might even try a couple of aluminum automotive heater
>cores. Some guys are using them on their small liquid cooled two stroke
>engines. Very inexpensive and they work well for removing heat from the
>coolant.
>
>Good Luck,
>Lincoln Schlecht
>Tech Coun #4434
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Coolent flow |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland <tshank@megsinet.net>
Jim,
Thanks this is what I was looking for. I would be interested in what
radiators you have the specs for. So far I have only been able to find
specifications for commercial units that are too heavy or large to fit
in my Zodiac.
Tim
Jim and Lucy wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
>
>At 10:34 PM 1/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>--> Engines-List message posted by: Tim & Diane Shankland
>><tshank@megsinet.net>
>>
>>I am presently designing a cooling system for my Stratus. I plan to have
>>the radiators inside the cowling. In order not to have to do rework
>>after building I am first characterizing various radiators in order to
>>be sure they are capable of cooling the engine. There is one piece of
>>information I still need. Does anyone know the coolant flow rate of the
>>Status suburu at full power? I need an idea of how many gallons per
>>minute will be going through the cooling system. When I get all the math
>>done I will be happy to share it with anyone else trying this.
>>
>>Tim Shankland
>>
>>
>
>
>The book sez
>
>@ 4000rpm 13.2 gallons per min at a head pressure of 16.4 feet
>using stock subaru plumbing components
>
>I have specs on the rads also ( btu's etc)I could scan and send you
>too much to type here.
>
>This kind of thing would be more suited to the airsoob group
>
>
>Jim Pollard
>ch601hds
>ea81
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Fuel Injection 0-360 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1@kc.rr.com>
I'm trying to find name of the manufacturer of a fuel injection system
for the 0-360. The guy is used by a lot of the high-performance engine
folks and apparently does not advertise. It's not Airflow Performance
Systems. But I can't find a thread on him.
Thanks
David
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine Instruments for Subaru |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Jeff & Leslie" <aggiesioux@mymdu.com>
All righty folks ~
Looking for some feedback in regards to engine instruments....
I am looking into purchasing the Subaru-4cylinder/165hp for placement into an RV9(A)....as
so many builders have already done.
Now, without getting into the great "auto conversion vs. cert. aircraft engine"
depate, I am curious to know what engine instrumentation other builders have
chosen to install used when using this particular engine. Especially since it
is liquid cooled and fuel injected. I am leaning towards the Grand Rapids EIS
(fuel flow version). However, in place of that what other analog engine instruments
are builders placing into their panels?
Even though the "sales specs" mention that a CHT/EGT won't be necessary, I am a
firm believer that you can never have enough information at your fingertips as
to how your engine is performing.....
Appreciate any feeback as to the question mentioned above.
Thanks,
Jeff
Potential RV-9(A) builder out in VA
Message 11
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| Subject: | Possible props for an IO-520 "D" |
--> Engines-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
Anyone out there with information or advice of what three blade prop will work
on an IO-520 engine mounted on a Lancaire ES. Not opposed to a good used prop.
Thanks,
Ed Silvanic
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Possible props for an IO-520 "D" |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
You might look around at the Bonanza Owners groups. It is my understanding
that if a Bonanza puts an IO-550 in place of the IO-520, they can't use
their old 2 blade prop and some of the 3 bladers don't transfer either. The
basic list is beech-owners@beechcraft.org
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: <N823ms@aol.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Possible props for an IO-520 "D"
> --> Engines-List message posted by: N823ms@aol.com
>
> Anyone out there with information or advice of what three blade prop will
work on an IO-520 engine mounted on a Lancaire ES. Not opposed to a good
used prop.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Ed Silvanic
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Coolent flow |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Yes Grant you are right , I only meant that there is lots of experience
on airsoob in the cooling area. Not that it should only be discussed
there or any thing like that. It did sound kind of nasty when I reread
it.
I scanned the rad spec pages from the factory soob book.
You will find them at
http://www.mnsi.net/~jpollard/
Look under ea81rads
Hope you can read them ok.
Jim Pollard
Merlin Ont
ch601hds
ea81
mounting cowl
and freezing
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Hi Jeff
I went with the Grand rapids EIS. It takes the place of at least
10 analog gauges. They have one especially for your motor
choice. The best thing I like about it is that it will tell you if
anything goes out of spec and turn on a warning circuit.
It also saves a huge amount of pannel space and is easier
to wire than individual gauges. I am not sure if I will like
the digital rpm readout. Ill have to see. I can add another
tach easy in my system if need be.
The Grand Rapids people are very nice to deal with too.
Jim Pollard
ch601hds
ea81
At 09:14 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>-> Engines-List message posted by: "Jeff & Leslie" <aggiesioux@mymdu.com>
>
>All righty folks ~
>
>Looking for some feedback in regards to engine instruments....
>
>I am looking into purchasing the Subaru-4cylinder/165hp for placement into
>an RV9(A)....as so many builders have already done.
>
>Now, without getting into the great "auto conversion vs. cert. aircraft
>engine" depate, I am curious to know what engine instrumentation other
>builders have chosen to install used when using this particular
>engine. Especially since it is liquid cooled and fuel injected. I am
>leaning towards the Grand Rapids EIS (fuel flow version). However, in
>place of that what other analog engine instruments are builders placing
>into their panels?
>
>Even though the "sales specs" mention that a CHT/EGT won't be necessary, I
>am a firm believer that you can never have enough information at your
>fingertips as to how your engine is performing.....
>
>Appreciate any feeback as to the question mentioned above.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeff
>Potential RV-9(A) builder out in VA
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tim Andres" <tim2542@charter.net>
You might want to consider a block pressure gauge, this will tell you what
your water pump is doing (not system pressure which is controlled by the
Radiator cap and different from block pressure) .......Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim and Lucy" <jpollard@mnsi.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Instruments for Subaru
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Jim and Lucy <jpollard@mnsi.net>
>
> Hi Jeff
> I went with the Grand rapids EIS. It takes the place of at least
> 10 analog gauges. They have one especially for your motor
> choice. The best thing I like about it is that it will tell you if
> anything goes out of spec and turn on a warning circuit.
> It also saves a huge amount of pannel space and is easier
> to wire than individual gauges. I am not sure if I will like
> the digital rpm readout. Ill have to see. I can add another
> tach easy in my system if need be.
>
> The Grand Rapids people are very nice to deal with too.
>
> Jim Pollard
> ch601hds
> ea81
>
>
> At 09:14 PM 1/22/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >-> Engines-List message posted by: "Jeff & Leslie" <aggiesioux@mymdu.com>
> >
> >All righty folks ~
> >
> >Looking for some feedback in regards to engine instruments....
> >
> >I am looking into purchasing the Subaru-4cylinder/165hp for placement
into
> >an RV9(A)....as so many builders have already done.
> >
> >Now, without getting into the great "auto conversion vs. cert. aircraft
> >engine" depate, I am curious to know what engine instrumentation other
> >builders have chosen to install used when using this particular
> >engine. Especially since it is liquid cooled and fuel injected. I am
> >leaning towards the Grand Rapids EIS (fuel flow version). However, in
> >place of that what other analog engine instruments are builders placing
> >into their panels?
> >
> >Even though the "sales specs" mention that a CHT/EGT won't be necessary,
I
> >am a firm believer that you can never have enough information at your
> >fingertips as to how your engine is performing.....
> >
> >Appreciate any feeback as to the question mentioned above.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Jeff
> >Potential RV-9(A) builder out in VA
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Coolent flow |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane@netzero.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Coolent flow
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyseaplane"
<flyseaplane@netzero.net>
>
> "I am presently designing a cooling system for my Stratus. I plan to have
> the radiators inside the cowling."
>
> Mr. Shankland,
> Belted Air Power in Nevada uses a couple of aluminum A/C evaporator cores,
> one in each cowl inlet. I have used these evaporator cores as radiators
for
> Rotax 912 installations, as well. ( just one needed for the 912 )
> If a pair will cool a Buick V8 then they'll cool your Stratus Subaru. Even
> one may be enough. You might even try a couple of aluminum automotive
heater
> cores. Some guys are using them on their small liquid cooled two stroke
> engines. Very inexpensive and they work well for removing heat from the
> coolant.
>
> Good Luck,
> Lincoln Schlecht
> Tech Coun #4434
I use the evaporator cores on my 13B making 180 HP and they work fine.
Pressure recovery in the inlet duct is important with them because they are
rather thick and restrictive. As long as you can get adequate air through
them, thickness in an aircraft rad is a GOOD thing. It heats up the air to
a higher temp and requires fewer CFM to do the job -- Less cooling drag.
Do not be decieved by those who say the best rad is a wide & thin one. We
are aiming for efficient AIRPLANES, not water coolers.
As a reference point, GPH coolant flow on the Mazda 13B is around 35 GPM at
6000 rpm.
Tracy Crook
13B powered RV-4
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Instruments for Subaru |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Jeff & Leslie" <aggiesioux@mymdu.com>
>
> All righty folks ~
>
> Looking for some feedback in regards to engine instruments....
>
> I am looking into purchasing the Subaru-4cylinder/165hp for placement into
an RV9(A)....as so many builders have already done.
>
> Now, without getting into the great "auto conversion vs. cert. aircraft
engine" depate, I am curious to know what engine instrumentation other
builders have chosen to install used when using this particular engine.
Especially since it is liquid cooled and fuel injected. I am leaning
towards the Grand Rapids EIS (fuel flow version). However, in place of that
what other analog engine instruments are builders placing into their panels?
>
> Even though the "sales specs" mention that a CHT/EGT won't be necessary, I
am a firm believer that you can never have enough information at your
fingertips as to how your engine is performing.....
>
> Appreciate any feeback as to the question mentioned above.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff
> Potential RV-9(A) builder out in VA
>
I use the Grand Rapids EIS on my 13B powered RV-4. It didn't work with EFI
for fuel flow (at least in 1996) so I had to make my own fuel flow
instrument. I disagree with the "no EGT needed". Also very important is a
coolant pressure gauge. Tells you MUCH more about the cooling system than
just a temp gauge. Also warns of a leak long before it shows up as a
temperature increase.
Tracy Crook
>
>
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