Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (CHUCK KELLY)
2. 05:54 AM - Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (Healy, Joseph)
3. 06:25 AM - Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (Scott Bilinski)
4. 09:17 AM - Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (CHUCK KELLY)
5. 10:13 AM - Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (kempthornes)
6. 04:48 PM - Rotary Cubic Inch Displacement was Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (Ed Anderson)
7. 07:00 PM - Re: Rotary Cubic Inch Displacement was Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl (CHUCK KELLY)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
How many cubic inches are in the 13B Rotary Mazda Engine?
Thanks
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
> >
> >
> > Listers,
> > Do any of you have any idea what the anticipated output of the 6 cyl
> > normally aspirated Subaru conversion is supposed to be? Looking at this
> > engine as an option for the RV-8.
> > Do Not Archive
> > Don Alexander
>
> Here's my favorite method of "sanity checking" HP claims and estimating HP
> on prospective engines. Calculate the theoretical CFM of the engine at
max
> HP rpm. It takes about 1.59 cfm of fuel air mixture to make 1 HP.
>
> For instance, an O - 360 at 2750 rpm calculates out to 286 cfm. (remember
to
> divide piston engine CI by 2 because it takes two revs to pump all of its
> cubes) Divide this by 1.59 and you get 180 HP. If the answer comes out
> much different than what the maker says their engine makes, be very
> suspicious.
>
> This method applies only to normally aspirated engines of course.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Healy, Joseph" <WJH@BRPLUSA.COM>
I notice that your calculation does not consider compression ratio. And
I assume these are sea level numbers. Is there a correction factor for
compression ratio?
Joe Healy,
-----Original Message-----
From: Tracy Crook [mailto:lors01@msn.com]
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
>
>
> Listers,
> Do any of you have any idea what the anticipated output of the 6 cyl
> normally aspirated Subaru conversion is supposed to be? Looking at
> this engine as an option for the RV-8. Do Not Archive
> Don Alexander
Here's my favorite method of "sanity checking" HP claims and estimating
HP
on prospective engines. Calculate the theoretical CFM of the engine at
max
HP rpm. It takes about 1.59 cfm of fuel air mixture to make 1 HP.
For instance, an O - 360 at 2750 rpm calculates out to 286 cfm.
(remember to divide piston engine CI by 2 because it takes two revs to
pump all of its
cubes) Divide this by 1.59 and you get 180 HP. If the answer comes out
much different than what the maker says their engine makes, be very
suspicious.
This method applies only to normally aspirated engines of course.
Tracy Crook
>
>
==
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Officially its 80 Cubic inches. BUT, I understand there are 2 different way
to calculate the CI's. One way its 80 the other its 160........I dont know
the formula.
At 03:19 AM 10/2/03 -0700, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
>
>How many cubic inches are in the 13B Rotary Mazda Engine?
>Thanks
>Chuck
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
>
>
>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>>
>>
>> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Listers,
>> > Do any of you have any idea what the anticipated output of the 6 cyl
>> > normally aspirated Subaru conversion is supposed to be? Looking at this
>> > engine as an option for the RV-8.
>> > Do Not Archive
>> > Don Alexander
>>
>> Here's my favorite method of "sanity checking" HP claims and estimating HP
>> on prospective engines. Calculate the theoretical CFM of the engine at
>max
>> HP rpm. It takes about 1.59 cfm of fuel air mixture to make 1 HP.
>>
>> For instance, an O - 360 at 2750 rpm calculates out to 286 cfm. (remember
>to
>> divide piston engine CI by 2 because it takes two revs to pump all of its
>> cubes) Divide this by 1.59 and you get 180 HP. If the answer comes out
>> much different than what the maker says their engine makes, be very
>> suspicious.
>>
>> This method applies only to normally aspirated engines of course.
>>
>> Tracy Crook
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
Could it be 80 per rotor?
Thanks Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Officially its 80 Cubic inches. BUT, I understand there are 2 different
way
> to calculate the CI's. One way its 80 the other its 160........I dont know
> the formula.
>
>
> At 03:19 AM 10/2/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
> >
> >How many cubic inches are in the 13B Rotary Mazda Engine?
> >Thanks
> >Chuck
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> >To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
> >
> >
> >> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Listers,
> >> > Do any of you have any idea what the anticipated output of the 6 cyl
> >> > normally aspirated Subaru conversion is supposed to be? Looking at
this
> >> > engine as an option for the RV-8.
> >> > Do Not Archive
> >> > Don Alexander
> >>
> >> Here's my favorite method of "sanity checking" HP claims and estimating
HP
> >> on prospective engines. Calculate the theoretical CFM of the engine
at
> >max
> >> HP rpm. It takes about 1.59 cfm of fuel air mixture to make 1 HP.
> >>
> >> For instance, an O - 360 at 2750 rpm calculates out to 286 cfm.
(remember
> >to
> >> divide piston engine CI by 2 because it takes two revs to pump all of
its
> >> cubes) Divide this by 1.59 and you get 180 HP. If the answer comes
out
> >> much different than what the maker says their engine makes, be very
> >> suspicious.
> >>
> >> This method applies only to normally aspirated engines of course.
> >>
> >> Tracy Crook
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: kempthornes <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>Tracy wrote:
>
>Calculate the theoretical CFM of the engine at max
>HP rpm. It takes about 1.59 cfm of fuel air mixture to make 1 HP.
I suppose this assumes stochiometric fuel air ratio. Another quick
estimator I've heard of involves fuel burn, like 0.4 pounds per HP per
hour. So a 180 HP engine would burn 72 pounds per hour. I think this
would also apply to boosted engines.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner 6 cyl |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
>
> How many cubic inches are in the 13B Rotary Mazda Engine?
> Thanks
> Chuck
>
>
The rotary is a bit different, Chuck. To answer your question, a two rotor
(the most common model) displacement is normally given as 1300 cc or 80 CID,
however to equate it to the engines we are more familar with such as 2
stroke and 4 stroke engines here's how you can look at it.
It provides the same airflow as a 4 cylinder 4 stroke engine with having
160 CID
Say at 6000 rpm, airflow = 6000*160/(2*1728) = 277 CFM
OR it provides the same airflow as a 2 cylinder 2 stroke having 80 CID.
At 6000 rpm, airflow = 6000*80/1728 = 277 CFM (we don't divide by 2 on a 2
stroke because each cylinder fires every revolution instead of every other
revolution like on a 4 stroke engine).
While the rotary is a true four stroke in that it goes through separate 1.
intake 2. Compression 3. Combustion and 4 Exhaust strokes, it does not have
the "rest" stroke that normal 4 stroke have. It also does not have any
valves to get in the way of air flow either. Its intake ports stay open
(port duration) a bit longer than most reciprocating engines valves stay
open and therefore can suck air/fuel mixture a bit longer. Taken together,
the rotary will generally produce a bit more power than its 4 cycle
equivalent of equal displacement and rpm. Most reciprocating engines out of
autos do not take kindly to continous operation above 6000 rpm for long
periods (hours). The rotary is loafing at 5000-6000 rpm and will easily
take 6500-7000 rpm and with some modifications on up to 8500 and higher.
However, Most flying rotaries operate between 5000 and 6500 although a few
are operate in the 7000 rpm range.
With a good induction/exhaust system a rotary operating at "Best Power" at
sea level standard day can produce close to 180Hp at 6000 rpm and 200HP at
6500 rpm. This of course has to be geared down to an acceptable prop speed
rpm.
Hope this helps
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner |
6 cyl
--> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
Thanks very much ED that is great info.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Rotary Cubic Inch Displacement was Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6
cyl
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson"
<eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Eggenfellner 6 cyl
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: "CHUCK KELLY" <heavy707@comcast.net>
> >
> > How many cubic inches are in the 13B Rotary Mazda Engine?
> > Thanks
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> The rotary is a bit different, Chuck. To answer your question, a two
rotor
> (the most common model) displacement is normally given as 1300 cc or 80
CID,
> however to equate it to the engines we are more familar with such as 2
> stroke and 4 stroke engines here's how you can look at it.
>
> It provides the same airflow as a 4 cylinder 4 stroke engine with having
> 160 CID
>
> Say at 6000 rpm, airflow = 6000*160/(2*1728) = 277 CFM
>
> OR it provides the same airflow as a 2 cylinder 2 stroke having 80 CID.
>
> At 6000 rpm, airflow = 6000*80/1728 = 277 CFM (we don't divide by 2 on a 2
> stroke because each cylinder fires every revolution instead of every other
> revolution like on a 4 stroke engine).
>
> While the rotary is a true four stroke in that it goes through separate
1.
> intake 2. Compression 3. Combustion and 4 Exhaust strokes, it does not
have
> the "rest" stroke that normal 4 stroke have. It also does not have any
> valves to get in the way of air flow either. Its intake ports stay open
> (port duration) a bit longer than most reciprocating engines valves stay
> open and therefore can suck air/fuel mixture a bit longer. Taken together,
> the rotary will generally produce a bit more power than its 4 cycle
> equivalent of equal displacement and rpm. Most reciprocating engines out
of
> autos do not take kindly to continous operation above 6000 rpm for long
> periods (hours). The rotary is loafing at 5000-6000 rpm and will easily
> take 6500-7000 rpm and with some modifications on up to 8500 and higher.
> However, Most flying rotaries operate between 5000 and 6500 although a few
> are operate in the 7000 rpm range.
>
> With a good induction/exhaust system a rotary operating at "Best Power" at
> sea level standard day can produce close to 180Hp at 6000 rpm and 200HP
at
> 6500 rpm. This of course has to be geared down to an acceptable prop
speed
> rpm.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson@carolina.rr.com
>
>
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