---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/21/04: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:18 PM - Re: RV8A turbine engine (Gordon and Marge) 2. 05:49 PM - Re: Bendix Scintilla Magnetos & Lycoming 0-145 B2 (PERRY CHAPPANO) 3. 06:26 PM - Re: RV8A turbine engine (Archie) 4. 06:56 PM - A"REAL" Alternative 'engine' (John) 5. 07:21 PM - Re: A"REAL" Alternative 'engine' (Archie) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:28 PM PST US From: "Gordon and Marge" Subject: RE: Engines-List: RV8A turbine engine --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gordon and Marge" -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Ritter Subject: Engines-List: RV8A turbine engine --> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter I am dead-set on an alternative engine for my RV8A project that does not include an "old fashioned" gasoline piston engine. A small gas turbine is my number one choice, a piston diesel is second and a rotary is third. Two choices for the turbine are an Allison 250 series T63 (250 to 300 hp) and the newly under development ATP (Affordable Turbine Power 200+ hp) I have done a lot of product research and selected several vendors for the Allison at around $13k for a basic engine. Doug Ritter Alexandria, VA 703-360-5219 Doug: I can empathize with your desire for an alternative engine and agree that a small gas turbine has its appeal. I have no specific information on the Allison to which you refer but I do have some on the -B17C of 420hp. The weight is good but it is a bit long at 45". The killer is the fuel consumption: .657 Lbs/SHP/Hr at max power and .656 at 369hp normal cruise. At 90% it is .670 and at 75% (277hp)it is .715. These are sea level numbers. With altitude the power tapers off and so does the fuel flow but the flow at taxi settings is very high. For example, at 12000' on a hot day the engine should produce 260hp and the fuel flow is nearly 170 lb/hr. Turbines come into their own at higher altitudes. My general impression is that as turbines get smaller the fuel specifics get worse. Perhaps others on the list can amplify on this. I have placed myself on the delivery list for a DeltaHawk diesel because it seems to be priced competitively, has good fuel specifics and excellent altitude performance. It remains to be seen whether deliveries will be made but I am optimistic. I think the rotary has a lot to offer but have not warmed up to it because of the sound and because of the throwaway lube system for the apex seals. Petty reasons I'm sure but they are mine and so far at least, I'm sticking to them. Affordable Turbine Power is a big question mark for me. At Oshkosh they said they had partnered with an aerospace company that mfr'd turbo pumps but their website says they are still seeking partners. The package looks good but we need to see it proven and produced. Time will tell. Good luck in your quest. If you get specifics on the T63 perhaps you could post them to the list. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:49:35 PM PST US From: PERRY CHAPPANO Subject: RE: Engines-List: Bendix Scintilla Magnetos & Lycoming 0-145 B2 --> Engines-List message posted by: PERRY CHAPPANO and now for the vintage crowd: Anyone have any experience with Bendix Scintilla magnetos and/or with upgrading the mags on a Lycoming O-145 B2 engine; or adding a starter to that engine? Thanks, Perry Chappano 1940 Porterfield LC-65 - NC32372 2001 Zenith 601XL - N9961 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:49 PM PST US From: "Archie" Subject: Re: Engines-List: RV8A turbine engine --> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" > --> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter > > I am dead-set on an > alternative engine for my RV8A project that does not include an "old > fashioned" gasoline piston engine. A small gas turbine is my number one > > choice, a piston diesel is second and a rotary is third. Two choices > for > the turbine are an Allison 250 series T63 (250 to 300 hp) and the newly > under development ATP (Affordable Turbine Power 200+ hp) I have done a > lot > of product research and selected several vendors for the Allison at > around > $13k for a basic engine. > Doug Ritter > Alexandria, VA > 703-360-5219 Another opinion. While the aforementioned comments are valid, dependent on many factors, but with great variations on personality and operating parameters. No problem here. A stock, brand new small hp Wankel, (215hp) will run about $6k. An early version is capable of that with some mods. A 265hp is also available (used w/ std transmissions). 300hp with a 3 rotor Wankel is no problem, either. Cu in vs cu in, the rotary will outdo just about any piston engine, (hp wise), and most small turbines, and it thrives on rpm. Simplicity in three basic moving parts, Simplicity and cost at overhaul time, No specialized parts, and parts available all over the country at reasonable prices. How wonderful to see more people going to alternative power plants. The Lycosaurus type manufacturers have brought this to serious contemplation by continuously generating antique engines that burn oil, hardly make it to TBO, and still can't get it right with continuous AD's which you pay for, etc,etc. Archie's Racing Service ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:27 PM PST US From: "John" Subject: Engines-List: A"REAL" Alternative 'engine' FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS --> Engines-List message posted by: "John" Some fellows in (I think) California were building a rubber band powered airplane which as I recall they had hoped to fly a distance of one mile with self-powered takeoff....has anyone heard anymore of this attempt? My fading memory says there was to be a human pilot aboard too...I saw some photos of the huge rubber band with the 'engine' mounted on the back of a pickup in some magazine a year or so back...any info? John ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:26 PM PST US From: "Archie" Subject: Re: Engines-List: A"REAL" Alternative 'engine' --> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" > --> Engines-List message posted by: "John" > > Some fellows in (I think) California were building a rubber band powered > airplane which as I recall they had hoped to fly a distance of one mile with > self-powered takeoff....has anyone heard anymore of this attempt? > > My fading memory says there was to be a human pilot aboard too...I saw some > photos of the huge rubber band with the 'engine' mounted on the back of a > pickup in some magazine a year or so back...any info? > > John I vaguely remember that from a few years back. I never heard anything, either. Perhaps one of our more progressive aircraft manufacturers bought them out before the market was flooded. Archie