Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:02 AM - Re: Alternative Engines -- Diesel (Mark Sletten)
2. 08:54 AM - Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/07/04 (Pat Wilks)
3. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/07/04 (Doug Ritter)
4. 10:05 AM - Re: alternative diesel engines (Doug Ritter)
5. 12:19 PM - Re: DynaCam, was alternative diesel engines (jerb)
6. 02:02 PM - Re: alternative diesel engines (j1j2h3@juno.com)
7. 04:18 PM - Re: was, alternative diesel engines, now OT: NASA TV (AI Nut)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Alternative Engines -- Diesel |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
--> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
to agree it has definite appeal to us home builders. Oh, the price was
in
the "competitive" market range about 27k. Something has gotta break
soon!
Something has...
Keep your eye on DeltaHawk. They're projecting FAA certification
followed shortly by beginning production near year's end on a range of
engines from 160-200 hp, depending on your flavor of turbo/intercooling.
They've had a pre-production 160hp engine flying in a Velocity testbed
for nearly a year, and several engines on test stands gathering data for
FAA certification.
They have an agreement with American Champion Aircraft to provide
engines for installation on Champion's Explorer model.
Several different kit aircraft manufacturers (including rotory aircraft
with the engine mounted vertically) have preproduction engines which
they are using to engineer firewall forward/aft kits.
www.deltahawkengines.com
Mark
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/07/04 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Pat Wilks <patwilks@mindspring.com>
Re: Dyna-Cam
You are right. The Dyna-Cam advantages were real. But getting it into production requires $5 - $10 million and we have never been able to raise those funds. My partner and I finally brought in new investors in 1999 but they insisted on doing a public offering which was approved 2 days after the 9/11 Attack. The new investment was not successful and it took 2 more years to find new investors who agreed to participate in 2003. But my partner and I had to give up control. The new investors founded a new company, Aero Marine Engine, Inc. (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=armr.ob) to build the engine. Nobody can understand the absolute impossiblity of getting new investors for industrial products.
The new investors say they will build the engine. I'll keep you posted.
Best regards,
Pat Wilks
Co-founder, Dyna-Cam Engine Corp.
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:25:00 AM PST US
From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: DynaCam, was alternative diesel engines
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
Yeah, it's a shame because the engine seems to have advantages and no real
engineering show stoppers that I have heard about... They have been
languishing so long now, that they have lost credibility, though... To get
going again, they need to put some engines onto flying airframes - even if
they have to give a couple of them away just to get them flying...
*** if I were the principle invester I would cut a deal with Van's RV to get
two of them in the air, even if I had to pay Van to do it! But then, I
have been in business all my life and I have learned what it takes to stay
in business ***
I have no details on the current status as I have no interest in chasing
rainbows... However, there are people in the experimental movement that if
they pooled their money and their expertise (owning a machine shop, etc.)
and acquired the right to produce and put a pair of those engines on
airframes and generate interest, I feel that sales would follow... But it
has to be a situation where the principal investors can substitute sweat
equity for money by machining engine parts when their other work is slow,
etc., so that they don't have to have 60K an engine to break even...
denny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny@wiktel.com>
You mention that they may be trying to get some engines out in
> the experimental arena... that is of interest to me if it is more than
just
> a ploy to get investors. Any details would be appreciated.
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 02/07/04 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
Pat, thank you for your concern, update and developing a great looking
product. I'm sorry you and your partners weren't able to reach the full
potential that it deserved. We will look forward to further updates. It
is refreshing to note that our email list is being read my someone in the
industry.
Doug Ritter
At 08:54 AM 2/8/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Pat Wilks <patwilks@mindspring.com>
>
>Re: Dyna-Cam
>
>You are right. The Dyna-Cam advantages were real. But getting it into
>production requires $5 - $10 million and we have never been able to raise
>those funds. My partner and I finally brought in new investors in 1999
>but they insisted on doing a public offering which was approved 2 days
>after the 9/11 Attack. The new investment was not successful and it took
>2 more years to find new investors who agreed to participate in 2003. But
>my partner and I had to give up control. The new investors founded a new
>company, Aero Marine Engine, Inc. (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=armr.ob)
>to build the engine. Nobody can understand the absolute impossiblity of
>getting new investors for industrial products.
>
>The new investors say they will build the engine. I'll keep you posted.
>Best regards,
>Pat Wilks
>Co-founder, Dyna-Cam Engine Corp.
>
>________________________________ Message
>2 _____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:25:00 AM PST US
>From: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: DynaCam, was alternative diesel engines
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Dennis O'Connor" <doconnor@chartermi.net>
>
>Yeah, it's a shame because the engine seems to have advantages and no real
>engineering show stoppers that I have heard about... They have been
>languishing so long now, that they have lost credibility, though... To get
>going again, they need to put some engines onto flying airframes - even if
>they have to give a couple of them away just to get them flying...
>*** if I were the principle invester I would cut a deal with Van's RV to get
>two of them in the air, even if I had to pay Van to do it! But then, I
>have been in business all my life and I have learned what it takes to stay
>in business ***
>I have no details on the current status as I have no interest in chasing
>rainbows... However, there are people in the experimental movement that if
>they pooled their money and their expertise (owning a machine shop, etc.)
>and acquired the right to produce and put a pair of those engines on
>airframes and generate interest, I feel that sales would follow... But it
>has to be a situation where the principal investors can substitute sweat
>equity for money by machining engine parts when their other work is slow,
>etc., so that they don't have to have 60K an engine to break even...
>denny
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny@wiktel.com>
> You mention that they may be trying to get some engines out in
> > the experimental arena... that is of interest to me if it is more than
>just
> > a ploy to get investors. Any details would be appreciated.
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | alternative diesel engines |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
Gordon, you are remarkably well informed, thanks for the info. By the way
the TV program I produced about "AirVentue 2003" where I interviewed
Affordable Turbine Power and Delta Hawk engines will be on NASA-TV tonight
at 7 PM EST unless JPL Mars stuff preempts it. Let talk sometime.
Doug Ritter Alexandria, VA
703-360-5219 (home)
202-385-0025 (work-NASA)
At 07:33 PM 2/5/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
>Ritter
>To: engines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Engines-List: alternative diesel engines
>
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
>
>For anybody who has been interested in a diesel alternative - I finally
>received an email update from Zoche in Germany concerning their
>remarkable
>300 hp radial diesel engine. This would really work well on my RV8A but
>I
>have a hunch it will be expensive. Anyone have any additional info?
>
>
>Doug: As best I can determine the Zoche project is moribund. My old
>web address for them no longer works and the phrases you quote seems to
>have come from releases that are several years old. My then neighbor, a
>German national whose home is in the Munich area visited Zoche last
>summer at my request. He spent most of a day with the Zoche's, looked
>at what they have and came away with the firm impression that they
>intended to go no farther with things. He could give no real reason as
>to why, but there seemed to be concerns about the potential loss of
>control and the usurpation of their ideas by others if they proceed. If
>there are showstoppers in the design, they have not been revealed or
>even hinted at. Several years ago Tim Coon, I believe it was, (Mod
>Works) went to Germany and instrumented the engine and pronounced it to
>have the lowest vibration levels of any piston engine he had tested,
>even better than some turbines. The last year that Zoche exhibited at
>Oshkosh I asked Michael if I handed him $5,000 on the spot, could I have
>an engine for $50,000 in one year. His response was to the effect that
>it would certainly cost no more than that but they really weren't ready
>to make that kind of promise. He always had maintained that they would
>sell no engines until type certification had been achieved and it has
>seemed that they have moved no closer to that goal than they were 5
>years ago. It's very sad. I really wanted one of those things.
>
>Gordon Comfort
>N363GC
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | DynaCam, was alternative diesel engines |
--> Engines-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
This has been their story for years - at that time they wanted an investor
to front a pile of money and not give him anything in return to back up the
loan. Didn't get any takers then, doubt if they do any better now. Last I
knew they still haven't produced any engines other than a few
prototypes. I don't see how they can pay for the ads I've seen them run or
even the phone bill for that matter. Makes me wonder if this isn't a form
of dummy company to provide a tax shelter or laundering front.
jerryb
At 11:44 PM 2/6/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
>
>I talked to the president of DynaCam, don't remember her name, about a year
>ago and it just plane sounded like they were without funding and couldn't
>go anywhere with it. She indicated that the future looked grim but I have
>to agree it has definite appeal to us home builders. Oh, the price was in
>the "competitive" market range about 27k. Something has gotta break soon!
>
>
>At 08:02 AM 2/6/2004 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny@wiktel.com>
> >
> >Hi Denny,
> >
> >You mentioned DynaCam... I've been intrigued by that engine for a lot of
> >years... the last I heard--maybe 3 or 4 years ago--there was a new group
> >involved that had big plans to produce engines in a skookum new facility and
> >they were actively looking for investors. It looked to me like they were
> >going about it all goofy and it was not much more than a hole into which to
> >pour money. You mention that they may be trying to get some engines out in
> >the experimental arena... that is of interest to me if it is more than just
> >a ploy to get investors. Any details would be appreciated.
> >
> >That design has a lot of positive attributes for some applications. For
> >those of you that haven't been exposed to the DynaCam: 12 cyl so should be
> >smooth, low rpm so needs no PSRU, tons of torque (they say), torpedo-like
> >shape fits under most cowls easily (someone once said that the original
> >intent was actually to use little ones to power torpedoes), good power to
> >weight, etc... and for die-hard certified engine fans, a 200 hp version
> >supposedly was FAA (or CAA?) certified years ago by the original design
> >group and flew a lot of hours in a low-wing Piper of some sort. This is one
> >that would have a lot of us drooling if it was for real IMHO.
> >
> >Johnny Johnson
> >
> >Denny wrote <snipped>:
> >Look at the Dyna-Cam story... <snip>
> >Dyna-Cam would have been well advised to build a base of engines running in
> >the field by catering to the experimenters right from the start... I see
> >they are now hoping to do that, but I suspect their window of opportunity
> >has closed
> >denny...
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: alternative diesel engines |
--> Engines-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
I heard that Zoche is affiliated with the company that produces Vaporware
software. They have an operating system that is far superior to Windows
XP or Linux, and can be licensed for $5.00, with unlimited support and
upgrades (not that any are ever likely to be needed). Should be on the
market in a year or two. (probably about the same time I get started on
construction).
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
Do not archive
--> Engines-List message posted by: <klwerner@comcast.net>
(clip)
Some airplanes are Hangar-Queen's, and this engine seems to be a
Paper-Queen.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: was, alternative diesel engines, now OT: NASA TV |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
Doug, THANKS for the TV info! I had no idea that NASA would show EAA
related stuff. I'm watching it now.
I do have one major problem with it, though (doesn't everyone have a gripe?
8-)). I just can't believe that a gov't organization, especially NASA,
would stoop to putting their $!@
!@$# <further CENSORED words> channel id
bug on the screen! And it is huge, larger than even the networks. Pretty
disgusting that NASA would clutter up the show and reduce the information
content in this way. Also, for people who use projectors, that bug being so
constant will destroy the ex$pen$ive display tubes. Can you ask them to
<cease and desist> this practice, please?
Thanks,
AI Nut
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Ritter" <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Engines-List: alternative diesel engines
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter@verizon.net>
>
> Gordon, you are remarkably well informed, thanks for the info. By the
way
> the TV program I produced about "AirVentue 2003" where I interviewed
> Affordable Turbine Power and Delta Hawk engines will be on NASA-TV tonight
> at 7 PM EST unless JPL Mars stuff preempts it. Let talk sometime.
>
> Doug Ritter Alexandria, VA
> 703-360-5219 (home)
> 202-385-0025 (work-NASA)
> <<<snip>>>
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