Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: plugs (flyv35b)
2. 11:15 AM - Re: Cruising airspeed (Marvin Dupree)
3. 05:46 PM - lean vs rich (TeamGrumman@aol.com)
4. 06:09 PM - Forward Faciing Sump for Lycoming 0-320 (Vic Jacko)
5. 06:12 PM - Comparison Laser vs Lightspeed Engineering (Vic Jacko)
6. 06:22 PM - Re: lean vs rich (Archie)
7. 08:00 PM - Lycoming service bulletins (Gary Casey)
8. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: plugs (kyle Ponsford)
9. 09:03 PM - Re: Re: plugs (kyle Ponsford)
10. 09:05 PM - Re: Lycoming service bulletins (Jones15183@aol.com)
11. 10:35 PM - Re: Lycoming service bulletins (steve korney)
12. 10:39 PM - Re: Lycoming service bulletins (steve korney)
Message 1
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--> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
> Kinda hard to miss read a WHITE plug! and I do mean chalky white. but no
> aluminum particles.
> the front plugs are so black and sooty they foul at about 4 hours.
> it is hard for me to imagin guys flying the things like that.
Sounds like pretty lousy mixture distribution to me due to poor induction
system or manifold design, or whatever. I doubt if they would have gotten
the engine certified with those conditions.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford"
<wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
>
> Lowell,
> Kinda hard to miss read a WHITE plug! and I do mean chalky white. but no
> aluminum particles.
> the front plugs are so black and sooty they foul at about 4 hours.
> it is hard for me to imagin guys flying the things like that.
> If I could find a rotax service center that would give me the time of day
I
> would love to send in my plugs but all I get is alot of "I dont know" and
> that is from the service guys! no curiosity, no advice, nothin. I had one
> guy want me to send in my engine.
> I'm not very happy with rotax about now only because I can't get a drop of
> service help.
> If anyone knows of a good outfit let me know.
> thanks for the note.
> Kyle
>
>
> >From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> >Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
> >Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:32:57 -0700
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
> >
> >Kyle,
> >
> >This engine typically shows different colors on the plugs. I have 600
> >hours on mine and fly with a three guys with the 912, all with similar
> >numbers. One has the 100 hp S model. We all have this color
discrepancy.
> >Your white to sooty black sounds a little extreme, to be sure, but I am
> >wondering if you are misreading the colors. Have you thought of sending
> >the
> >two plugs to a Rotax service center to get another set of eyes on them to
> >determine if there really is a problem. This is just an issue that I
have
> >never heard of before and I have been monitoring a couple of lists for
over
> >ten years.
> >
> >Lowell
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
> >To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
> >
> >
> > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford"
> ><wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > sounds like you and I are at about the same place! I too have done the
> >same
> > > thing except the bolt.
> > > I have just ordered some cooler plugs to put in the back, I am running
> >NGK
> > > DCPR7E and I am waiting for some 9E's which will run 2 steps cooler.
> > > This works in my snowmachine quite well so I thought I would give it a
> >try.
> > > I will let you know how it goes.
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > > >From: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > > >To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
> > > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:10:09 -0700
> > > >
> > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis"
> > > ><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford"
> > > ><wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > Leo,
> > > > > Now that sounds like a very scarry fix!
> > > >
> > > >OK I've tried a new left manifold,overhauled both carbs, put 2 3/16
> >bolts
> > > >thru the front leg of the manifold(actually gives some improvement),
> >max
> > > >size main jets and metering pins in 4 notch. Still swapping plugs.
> > > >
> > > >Please suggest something better !
> > > >
> > > >Leo Corbalis
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Cruising airspeed |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Marvin Dupree <97corvette@cox.net>
okay, now i see. i had not thought of it the way you explained in your
last e. so i have learned something. thanks.
marv
On Monday, May 24, 2004, at 11:02 AM, Scott Bilinski wrote:
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Yea me to. Apparently the way it works is, the cylinder that peaks with
> the
> highest fuel flow, means all the other cylinders are getting more fuel
> so
> its the leanest.
>
>
> At 10:15 AM 5/24/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Marvin Dupree <97corvette@cox.net>
>>
>> so the cylinder with the least fuel flow is the richest? somehow, i
>> would have thought the opposite.
>> marv
>> On Monday, May 24, 2004, at 08:12 AM, Scott Bilinski wrote:
>>
>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>>> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>
>>> You peak each cylinder one at a time and write down the fuel flow at
>>> your
>>> favorite cruise power setting. Then call Air Flow Performance with the
>>> numbers and they will send you the proper jets/nozzles and what
>>> cylinder to
>>> put them in. Let me see if I remember........the cylinder with the
>>> highest
>>> fuel flow at peak EGT is the leanest.
>>>
>>>
>>> At 04:45 PM 5/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> Scott, tell us how you are able to determine fuel flow to each
>>>> cylinder?
>>>>
>>>> Vic
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Cruising airspeed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>>>> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I forgot to add is that the fuel flow to each cylinder is
>>>>> with
>>>> in
>>>>> .2 GPH.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> LightSpeed Plasma II dual ignition, Air Flow Performance Injection,
>>>>> on a
>>>> 360.
>>>>>
>>>>> At 08:35 AM 5/21/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko"
>>>>>> <vicwj@earthlink.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scott, what EI's are you using?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume you are running a Lyc 0-360?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you using a carb or throttle body?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vic
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>>>> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Cruising airspeed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
>>>>>> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For me, I cruise my RV-8a, 160 kts, 7GPH, dual EI, 60% power, 25
>>>>>>> LOP.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>>> numbers are good from 8.0 to 10.5 Have not flown over 10.5 yet
>>>>>>> so.....
>>>> I
>>>>>>> dont understand how this info will help you unless you get the
>>>> performance
>>>>>>> differences in percentage. For example, dual EI over mags is 3%
>>>>>>> faster
>>>> and
>>>>>>> 8% less fuel. With info like that you can make a much better
>>>> comparison.
>>>>>>> Might be better off to tell us what your end goal is and then an
>>>> expert
>>>>>>> like Mahlon can tell you how to get there and how much $$$ it will
>>>> cost.
>>>>>>> The numbers I gave you only apply to my RV-8a with a 3 blade, 151
>>>>>> WhirlWind
>>>>>>> prop all set ups are different.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At 06:07 AM 5/21/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>>>>>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey"
>>>> <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm doing some analysis of various powerplant options and would
>>>>>>>> like
>>>> to
>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>> if there is data available that documents cruising TAS vs.
>>>>>>>> altitude:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. For a conventional Naturally-Aspirated engine configuration
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> standard magnetos. This needs to be at a fixed rpm and fixed
>>>>>>>> percent
>>>>>> power
>>>>>>>> below 8,000 ft. 75 percent power and 2500 rpm would be a
>>>> representative
>>>>>>>> condition. It is important that the rpm be held constant. I
>>>>>>>> have
>>>> some
>>>>>> data
>>>>>>>> like this, but only up to about 12,000 feet. I would like to get
>>>> data up
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> 18,000.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. For a Naturally-Aspirated engine equipped with dual
>>>>>>>> electronic
>>>>>> ignition
>>>>>>>> that automatically advances the timing at low manifold pressures
>>>> under
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same conditions as above. I have a suspicion that the slope of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>> airspeed
>>>>>>>> line above 8,000 feet is much lower than with fixed timing, but I
>>>> have
>>>>>>>> little data.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. A turbo-normalized engine (any turbocharged engine will do)
>>>>>>>> run
>>>> at a
>>>>>>>> fixed rpm and fixed percent power at all altitudes to at least
>>>>>>>> 18,000
>>>> ft.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have reasonably good data (C-TR182) for this that shows a
>>>>>>>> straight
>>>> line
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> an 8 percent increase from 8,000 to 18,000.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It would be nice if all three configurations were on an ES, but
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> airframes will also produce usable data. I have found that the
>>>>>>>> above
>>>>>> data
>>>>>>>> for certified aircraft closely matches each other, but I only
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>> anecdotal
>>>>>>>> information for the dual electronic ignition version.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Gary Casey
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Scott Bilinski
>>>>>>> Eng dept 305
>>>>>>> Phone (858) 657-2536
>>>>>>> Pager (858) 502-5190
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Bilinski
>>>>> Eng dept 305
>>>>> Phone (858) 657-2536
>>>>> Pager (858) 502-5190
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott Bilinski
>>> Eng dept 305
>>> Phone (858) 657-2536
>>> Pager (858) 502-5190
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
> >
>
>
Message 3
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--> Engines-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
Quote: "Yea me to. Apparently the way it works is, the cylinder that peaks
with the highest fuel flow, means all the other cylinders are getting more fuel
so its the leanest. *** so the cylinder with the least fuel flow is the
richest?=A0 somehow, I would have thought the opposite."
I think someone is going to have to be a little more specific here.
Cylinders with the highest fuel flow, i.e., receiving the most fuel, are the richest
cylinders. Now, if you are saying that the cylinder with the first EGT to
peak at any given fuel flow is the leanest, then I'd agree. I'm making the
assumption that you are NOT measuring individual fuel flow rates for each
cylinder.
I admit I got in on this thread at the most recent email so if I am missing
something, please feel free to let me in on what I'm missing.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Forward Faciing Sump for Lycoming 0-320 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
Hi List,
I am interested in locating a forward facing sump for a Lycoming 0-320/ 360. If
anyone on the list has one for sale or knows of one available please contact
me off-list.
Do not archive!
Thanks,
Vic
Message 5
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| Subject: | Comparison Laser vs Lightspeed Engineering |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj@earthlink.net>
I am looking for this write-up someone did on comparing the performance of the
two systems above. If anyone on the list knows where I can find this info I
would be grateful.
Vic
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: lean vs rich |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: TeamGrumman@aol.com
>
> Quote: "Yea me to. Apparently the way it works is, the cylinder that peaks
> with the highest fuel flow, means all the other cylinders are getting more
fuel
> so its the leanest. *** so the cylinder with the least fuel flow is
the
> richest?=A0 somehow, I would have thought the opposite."
>
> I think someone is going to have to be a little more specific here.
> Cylinders with the highest fuel flow, i.e., receiving the most fuel, are
the richest
> cylinders. Now, if you are saying that the cylinder with the first EGT
to
> peak at any given fuel flow is the leanest, then I'd agree. I'm making
the
> assumption that you are NOT measuring individual fuel flow rates for each
> cylinder.
>
> I admit I got in on this thread at the most recent email so if I am
missing
> something, please feel free to let me in on what I'm missing.
Referencing old Al Einstein regarding his basic relativity theory,
The situation may not be necessarily one of "rich", as perhaps
a cylinder or two running lean, and allowing fuel that is out of suspension
to be drawn elsewhere. Trace induction leaks may not cause adverse
running, but can affect fuel distribution. (carbureted).
Archie
Message 7
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| Subject: | Lycoming service bulletins |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
I have been trying, with no luck, to find a copy of Lycoming Service
Bulletin SB388B and Service Instruction 1425A. Can anyone help?
Gary Casey
Message 8
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--> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
I realize this is not the norm. what I can't figure out is what to do about
it.
The intake manafolds connect the front and rear cylinders, and obviously
they are not perfect because I am learning lots of owners have collor
discrepency between front and rear. but do we know why? in mine I'm thinking
it can't be air flow by volume alone, because of the vast difference of plug
collor between the cylindars, I don't think it can be fuel because of coming
out of the same carb.front and rear, but what about oil? can I be starving
my rear cylindars of oil somehow? what else could it be? as you say, how do
I fix my mixture distribution?
Kyle
>From: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
>Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
>Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 06:03:54 -0700
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b"
><flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
>
> > Kinda hard to miss read a WHITE plug! and I do mean chalky white. but no
> > aluminum particles.
> > the front plugs are so black and sooty they foul at about 4 hours.
> > it is hard for me to imagin guys flying the things like that.
>Sounds like pretty lousy mixture distribution to me due to poor induction
>system or manifold design, or whatever. I doubt if they would have gotten
>the engine certified with those conditions.
>
>Cliff A&P/IA
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
>
http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
Message 9
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--> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
hey guys,
here is a thought, has anyone made a temp guage that connect to each
cylindar with an independant readout? maybe even a switch to choose which
jug to read.
This way I could really tell what is going on there.
next question;
if I dont have aluminum particles, can I still fly the dang thing with white
plugs without hurting it?
now the good news, I got in some 8Es plugs (am having a heck of a time
finding 9Es) so I will install them and let you know what I discover.
I am sure liking the imput, makes me feel not so alone here.
Kyle
>From: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:32:57 -0700
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Lowell Fitt" <lcfitt@inreach.com>
>
>Kyle,
>
>This engine typically shows different colors on the plugs. I have 600
>hours on mine and fly with a three guys with the 912, all with similar
>numbers. One has the 100 hp S model. We all have this color discrepancy.
>Your white to sooty black sounds a little extreme, to be sure, but I am
>wondering if you are misreading the colors. Have you thought of sending
>the
>two plugs to a Rotax service center to get another set of eyes on them to
>determine if there really is a problem. This is just an issue that I have
>never heard of before and I have been monitoring a couple of lists for over
>ten years.
>
>Lowell
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "kyle Ponsford" <wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford"
><wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
> >
> >
> > sounds like you and I are at about the same place! I too have done the
>same
> > thing except the bolt.
> > I have just ordered some cooler plugs to put in the back, I am running
>NGK
> > DCPR7E and I am waiting for some 9E's which will run 2 steps cooler.
> > This works in my snowmachine quite well so I thought I would give it a
>try.
> > I will let you know how it goes.
> > Kyle
> >
> > >From: "Leo J. Corbalis" <leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
> > >Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > >To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: plugs
> > >Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:10:09 -0700
> > >
> > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis"
> > ><leocorbalis@sbcglobal.net>
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "kyle Ponsford"
> > ><wild_kyle@hotmail.com>
> > > >
> > > > Leo,
> > > > Now that sounds like a very scarry fix!
> > >
> > >OK I've tried a new left manifold,overhauled both carbs, put 2 3/16
>bolts
> > >thru the front leg of the manifold(actually gives some improvement),
>max
> > >size main jets and metering pins in 4 notch. Still swapping plugs.
> > >
> > >Please suggest something better !
> > >
> > >Leo Corbalis
> > >
> > >
> >
> > http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming service bulletins |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Jones15183@aol.com
Gary, go to Lycoming site @....www.lycoming.textron.com and go thru the
process of searching their data base for info you want..billy waters
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lycoming service bulletins |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
http://www.prime-mover.com/Aviation/Manuf_Page/sb388b-1.html
Best... Steve
Message 12
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| Subject: | Lycoming service bulletins |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/maintenancePublications/serviceInstructions/SI1425a.pdf
Best... Steve
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