Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:25 AM - Re: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04 (Robert Ardis)
2. 05:07 AM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
3. 06:17 AM - Cement Boil (Scott Derrick)
4. 06:28 AM - Bassackwards Lycoming (Gene Smith)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Re: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04 (flyv35b)
6. 06:56 AM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Scott Derrick)
7. 07:10 AM - Re: Cement Boil (Kent Ashton)
8. 07:42 AM - Re: Cement Boil (Scott Derrick)
9. 09:22 AM - Marvel Schebler carburetor ()
10. 09:43 AM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (steve korney)
11. 09:45 AM - Re: Cement Boil (steve korney)
12. 10:16 AM - Re: Cement Boil (Scott Derrick)
13. 02:31 PM - Re: Cement Boil (Archie)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
For the last two months, I have been helping a friend solve the problem
of high
oil temp--the needle touching the 'red line'. A new cooler may fix since
the repair
station said too bad to repair.
In trying to find a solution, a long time friend told me he had the
same problem
with a Lyc powered Beech. Beech dealer's mechanics found nothing to make
the problem until an older mechanic found the engine was 180 degrees out of
time.
I would appreciate how this could be possible. It could help my friend
and I
would be smarter.
>From: Engines-List Digest Server <engines-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
>To: Engines-List Digest List <engines-list-digest@matronics.com>
>Subject: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04
>Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:56:32 -0700
>
>*
>
> ==================================================
> Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> ==================================================
>
>Today's complete Engines-List Digest can be also be found in either
>of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
>formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
>Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
>version of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
>text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
>
>HTML Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-07-14.html
>
>Text Version:
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-07-14.txt
>
>
> ================================================
> EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> ================================================
>
>
> Engines-List Digest Archive
> ---
> Total Messages Posted Wed 07/14/04: 10
>
>
>Today's Message Index:
>----------------------
>
> 1. 01:24 PM - Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> 2. 02:24 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Archie)
> 3. 02:33 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
> 4. 02:59 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Scott Derrick)
> 5. 03:46 PM - Marks lyc (Wes Hobbs)
> 6. 04:58 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> 7. 05:00 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> 8. 05:05 PM - Re: Marks lyc (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> 9. 06:17 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Kent Ashton)
> 10. 07:05 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Archie)
>
>
>________________________________ Message 1
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 01:24:32 PM PST US
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Subject: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>
>My E3D Lyc (150hp) has a disturbing trait of late- on shutdown, it will
>sputter along, barely running at full idle cutoff, then stop for an
>instant, then
>turns backwards against a cylinder compression stroke and continues to run
>backwards for as much as 1 or 2 seconds.=A0 The engine runs fine otherwise
>with
>all
>temps in the normal range.=A0 I had the carb apart before intial running,
>and it
>seemed the cutoff valve was a little sloppy in the bottom of the float bowl
>making me wonder just how well it could really shut off the fuel flow.
>
>It seems this would not go in the "good" category.=A0 I already surmise
>that I
>am still leaking some fuel past the cutoff valve which is supplying enough
>fuel, and that perhaps a lower vapor pressure in the mogas (regular grade)
>I am
>running may contribute, particularly at higher OATs, in the high 80s/low90s
>lately.=A0 I tried running engine to 1200 rpm, then slowly pulling mixture
>back
>to
>stumble, then quickly full back to allow the engine to suck the last fuel
>from
>the intake at higher rpm, but that still didn't help.=A0 I am running a
>3-blade
>wood core composite prop.=A0 I'm also curious if this is bad for stuff
>like=20the
>mags, lifters, accessory gears, oil pump etc.=A0
>
>How serious is this and other than checking mixture cable/lever for full
>travel, what else can I do?
>
>Thanks for any and all advice-
>Mark Phillips, Columbia TN - RV-6A, 950 TT on '73 engine, 83 since first
>flight Jan. 31.
>
>
>________________________________ Message 2
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:24:44 PM PST US
>From: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>
>Sounds like you may even have multiple problems.
>Check spark plugs and especially combustion chambers for carbon build up.
>Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
>The spark plugs can tell more than you may suspect, especially
>if there are indications of cement boil.
>Archie's Racing Service
>
>
>________________________________ Message 3
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:33:59 PM PST US
>From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
><kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
>Is ignition timing right on? A plug firing before TDC by too much can
>drive the piston down before it ever reaches TDC. That would rotate the
>engine backward tho not many firings I'd think.
>
>hal
>
>
>________________________________ Message 4
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 02:59:45 PM PST US
>From: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
>cement boil?
>
>At 03:24 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Sounds like you may even have multiple problems.
> >Check spark plugs and especially combustion chambers for carbon build up.
> >Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
> >The spark plugs can tell more than you may suspect, especially
> >if there are indications of cement boil.
> >Archie's Racing Service
> >
> >
>
>
>"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
>- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>________________________________ Message 5
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 03:46:25 PM PST US
>From: "Wes Hobbs" <weshobbs@starband.net>
>Subject: Engines-List: Marks lyc
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Wes Hobbs" <weshobbs@starband.net>
>
>Mark , all of the guys are correct, including you. I agree ,you need a
>tighter
>ICO, and the right mag. has no impulse, so on shut down the right mag. will
>be
>firing @ 25 deg BTC. A good reason the engine will turn backwards a few
>revs.
>About the only thing it might hurt is the dry vacuum pump, if it has angled
>vanes-----Wes
>
>
>________________________________ Message 6
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 04:58:50 PM PST US
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 07/14/2004 3:25:36 PM Central Standard Time,
>archie97@earthlink.net writes:
>Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
>Highest CHT (all 4 monitored) is #2 at 425 or less in climb, less that 390
>in
>cruise, with usually about 60 degree spread from coldest to hottest. Oil
>temp never higher than 190...
>
>What should max CHT on this engine be?
>
>Thanks Archie! - Mark
>do not archive
>
>
>________________________________ Message 7
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:00:17 PM PST US
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 07/14/2004 3:34:30 PM Central Standard Time,
>kempthornes@earthlink.net writes:
>Is ignition timing right on?
>Not sure- will have to check. It's been running so well otherwise, I
>hadn't
>even considered checking.
>
>Thanks Hal
>Mark
>do not archive
>
>
>________________________________ Message 8
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 05:05:40 PM PST US
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Marks lyc
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 07/14/2004 4:46:54 PM Central Standard Time,
>weshobbs@starband.net writes:
>Mark , all of the guys are correct, including you. I agree ,you need a
>tighter ICO, and the right mag. has no impulse, so on shut down the right
>mag.
>will
>be firing @ 25 deg BTC. A good reason the engine will turn backwards a few
>revs. About the only thing it might hurt is the dry vacuum pump, if it has
>angled
>
>vanes-----Wes
>Thanks, Wes- until I can check the plugs & ICO, will kill right mag with
>mixture pull- all electric so not sucky thing!
>
>Mark do not archive
>
>
>________________________________ Message 9
>_____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 06:17:35 PM PST US
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>From: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
>
>Could you be mistaking what's happening here? To run backward, it would
>have to be sucking in gas from the exhaust pipes and pumping air out the
>carb, wouldn't it? I could see a kick back or half a turn but several
>revolutions? hard to believe but then I've been wrong before.
>--kent
>
> > From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> > Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:43 EDT
> > To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> >
> > My E3D Lyc (150hp) has a disturbing trait of late- on shutdown, it will
> > sputter along, barely running at full idle cutoff, then stop for an
>instant,
> > then
> > turns backwards against a cylinder compression stroke and continues to
>run
> > backwards for as much as 1 or 2 seconds.=A0 The engine runs fine
>otherwise
> > with all
> > temps in the normal range.=A0 I had the carb apart before intial
>running, and
> > it
> > seemed the cutoff valve was a little sloppy in the bottom of the float
>bowl
> > making me wonder just how well it could really shut off the fuel flow.
> >
> > It seems this would not go in the "good" category.=A0 I already surmise
>that
>I
> > am still leaking some fuel past the cutoff valve which is supplying
>enough
> > fuel, and that perhaps a lower vapor pressure in the mogas (regular
>grade) I
> > am
> > running may contribute, particularly at higher OATs, in the high
>80s/low90s
> > lately.=A0 I tried running engine to 1200 rpm, then slowly pulling
>mixture
> > back to
> > stumble, then quickly full back to allow the engine to suck the last
>fuel from
> > the intake at higher rpm, but that still didn't help.=A0 I am running a
> > 3-blade
> > wood core composite prop.=A0 I'm also curious if this is bad for stuff
> > like=20the
> > mags, lifters, accessory gears, oil pump etc.=A0
> >
> > How serious is this and other than checking mixture cable/lever for full
> > travel, what else can I do?
> >
> > Thanks for any and all advice-
> > Mark Phillips, Columbia TN - RV-6A, 950 TT on '73 engine, 83 since first
> > flight Jan. 31.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>________________________________ Message 10
>____________________________________
>
>
>Time: 07:05:04 PM PST US
>From: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
>
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >
> > cement boil?
>
>The center electrode in spark plugs is cemented in place.
>when the cement boils, or burns out, it is an indication of
>overheating the plug, This can be caused by many factors,
>but if the porcelain is speckled, it may be due to detonation
>or pre ignition.
>Archie's Racing Service
>
>
Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Bassackwards Lycoming |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 7/14/04 8:18:17 PM Central Daylight Time,
kjashton@vnet.net writes:
> Could you be mistaking what's happening here? To run backward, it would
> have to be sucking in gas from the exhaust pipes and pumping air out the
> carb, wouldn't it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
Yeah, it looked weird to me too until I followed four stroke operation
backwards- what happens is that a piston comes up on the compression stroke without
enough momentum to go over TDC- the compression (or possibly the impulse mag
firing just before TDC) pushes the piston back downward (engine now turning
backwards). Next the piston travels up on what would normally be the intake
stroke so the intake valve is open. After TDC, the piston goes back down on what
would normally be the exhaust stroke with the ex valve open and starts
travelling back up again, now against "compression" of what would normally be the
firing stroke. We've made at least one and a half revolutions already. My
suspicion is that valve timing overlap and the normal closing delay from the engine
turning correctly reduces the actual amount of compressible gas with the
piston rising on the firing stroke. Not sure of Lyc valve timing, but pretty sure
normal 4-strokes operate in this fashion. Where the fuel supply is coming
from totally mystifies me unless there is enough still floating around in the
cylinders or some unburned fuel is being sucked back up the exhaust. As far as
spark operation, I could imagine that the mags "could" still fire running
backwards, but not sure when the spark would fire as this would happen when the
points "open" when they would normally be closing... Again, I'm not familiar
enough with Lycs to know the timing of this even.
Yes, it is running backwards, and no, I haven't ingested substances that
might alter visual reality in a very, very long time! 8-)
Mark
Message 3
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--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
I'm running automotive plugs on the top side of an IO360 Lyc, they are
connected to a Klaus Savior electronic ignition.
On the outside part of the plug the porcelain next to the metal barrel that
screws into the head is brown. Looks like its been painted with a light
brown stain.
Is this cement boil?
The plugs seem to operate fine in all other respects.
Scott
At 08:04 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >
> > cement boil?
>
>The center electrode in spark plugs is cemented in place.
>when the cement boils, or burns out, it is an indication of
>overheating the plug, This can be caused by many factors,
>but if the porcelain is speckled, it may be due to detonation
>or pre ignition.
>Archie's Racing Service
>
>
"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin
Message 4
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| Subject: | Bassackwards Lycoming |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gene Smith" <esmith6@satx.rr.com>
It is probably the ignition timing is ADVANCED waaay too far...........Years ago
I bought a C-150 and it was hard to start, especially when it was hot...Occasionally
it would kick backwards at least two revs...I suspect it was flooded
with fuel, and somehow received some form of ignition...It eventually ruined the
starter gear...Sooo while it was in the shop for the gear, they set the timing
according to the book, and it never did that again.......The shop folks suggested
someone set it forward to increase the gas mileage?................CHEERS!!!!...................Good
luck.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b" <flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com>
Beech dealer's mechanics found nothing to make
> the problem until an older mechanic found the engine was 180 degrees out
of
> time.
> I would appreciate how this could be possible. It could help my
friend
> and I
> would be smarter.
Not sure what you mean by 180 degrees out of time, but the engine fires one
cylinder every 180 degrees on a 4 cylinder engine. Most Lycomings fire at
25 degrees before top dead center BTDC, except when starting when the
impulse coupling retards the timing to fire the LH mag (typically) at TDC.
The engine just plain won't run if the timing gets to far off from the
specified 25 degrees BTDC. It certainly won't run at 180 degrees off. Yes
the adjacent cylinder in the firing order will be 180 degrees different in
crank rotation but will be firing it's own cylinder at 25 BTDC.
The engine was most likely running to high an oil temp due to reasons such
as a Vernitherm valve not closing properly, advanced mag timing, poor
baffling and sealing around oil cooler and excessive combustion gases
leaking past the rings causing the oil to heat up abnormally. Of course the
cooler could have been partially restricted or had some other problem.
Cliff A&P/IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
Subject: Engines-List: RE: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Robert Ardis" <ardis_rb@hotmail.com>
>
> For the last two months, I have been helping a friend solve the
problem
> of high
> oil temp--the needle touching the 'red line'. A new cooler may fix since
> the repair
> station said too bad to repair.
> In trying to find a solution, a long time friend told me he had the
> same problem
> with a Lyc powered Beech. Beech dealer's mechanics found nothing to make
> the problem until an older mechanic found the engine was 180 degrees out
of
> time.
> I would appreciate how this could be possible. It could help my
friend
> and I
> would be smarter.
>
>
> >From: Engines-List Digest Server <engines-list-digest@matronics.com>
> >Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >To: Engines-List Digest List <engines-list-digest@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Engines-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/14/04
> >Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 23:56:32 -0700
> >
> >*
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ==================================================
> >
> >Today's complete Engines-List Digest can be also be found in either
> >of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
> >formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked
> >Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII
> >version of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic
> >text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser.
> >
> >HTML Version:
> >
> >
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-07-14
.html
> >
> >Text Version:
> >
> >
>
>http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-07-14
.txt
> >
> >
> > ================================================
> > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive
> > ================================================
> >
> >
> > Engines-List Digest Archive
> > ---
> > Total Messages Posted Wed 07/14/04: 10
> >
> >
> >Today's Message Index:
> >----------------------
> >
> > 1. 01:24 PM - Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> > 2. 02:24 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Archie)
> > 3. 02:33 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
> > 4. 02:59 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Scott Derrick)
> > 5. 03:46 PM - Marks lyc (Wes Hobbs)
> > 6. 04:58 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> > 7. 05:00 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> > 8. 05:05 PM - Re: Marks lyc (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
> > 9. 06:17 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Kent Ashton)
> > 10. 07:05 PM - Re: Bassackwards Lycoming (Archie)
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 1
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 01:24:32 PM PST US
> >From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >Subject: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> >
> >My E3D Lyc (150hp) has a disturbing trait of late- on shutdown, it will
> >sputter along, barely running at full idle cutoff, then stop for an
> >instant, then
> >turns backwards against a cylinder compression stroke and continues to
run
> >backwards for as much as 1 or 2 seconds.=A0 The engine runs fine
otherwise
> >with
> >all
> >temps in the normal range.=A0 I had the carb apart before intial running,
> >and it
> >seemed the cutoff valve was a little sloppy in the bottom of the float
bowl
> >making me wonder just how well it could really shut off the fuel flow.
> >
> >It seems this would not go in the "good" category.=A0 I already surmise
> >that I
> >am still leaking some fuel past the cutoff valve which is supplying
enough
> >fuel, and that perhaps a lower vapor pressure in the mogas (regular
grade)
> >I am
> >running may contribute, particularly at higher OATs, in the high
80s/low90s
> >lately.=A0 I tried running engine to 1200 rpm, then slowly pulling
mixture
> >back
> >to
> >stumble, then quickly full back to allow the engine to suck the last fuel
> >from
> >the intake at higher rpm, but that still didn't help.=A0 I am running a
> >3-blade
> >wood core composite prop.=A0 I'm also curious if this is bad for stuff
> >like=20the
> >mags, lifters, accessory gears, oil pump etc.=A0
> >
> >How serious is this and other than checking mixture cable/lever for full
> >travel, what else can I do?
> >
> >Thanks for any and all advice-
> >Mark Phillips, Columbia TN - RV-6A, 950 TT on '73 engine, 83 since first
> >flight Jan. 31.
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 2
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 02:24:44 PM PST US
> >From: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Sounds like you may even have multiple problems.
> >Check spark plugs and especially combustion chambers for carbon build up.
> >Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
> >The spark plugs can tell more than you may suspect, especially
> >if there are indications of cement boil.
> >Archie's Racing Service
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 3
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 02:33:59 PM PST US
> >From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
> ><kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Is ignition timing right on? A plug firing before TDC by too much can
> >drive the piston down before it ever reaches TDC. That would rotate the
> >engine backward tho not many firings I'd think.
> >
> >hal
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 4
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 02:59:45 PM PST US
> >From: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >
> >cement boil?
> >
> >At 03:24 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >Sounds like you may even have multiple problems.
> > >Check spark plugs and especially combustion chambers for carbon build
up.
> > >Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
> > >The spark plugs can tell more than you may suspect, especially
> > >if there are indications of cement boil.
> > >Archie's Racing Service
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> >- Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 5
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 03:46:25 PM PST US
> >From: "Wes Hobbs" <weshobbs@starband.net>
> >Subject: Engines-List: Marks lyc
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Wes Hobbs" <weshobbs@starband.net>
> >
> >Mark , all of the guys are correct, including you. I agree ,you need a
> >tighter
> >ICO, and the right mag. has no impulse, so on shut down the right mag.
will
> >be
> >firing @ 25 deg BTC. A good reason the engine will turn backwards a few
> >revs.
> >About the only thing it might hurt is the dry vacuum pump, if it has
angled
> >vanes-----Wes
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 6
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 04:58:50 PM PST US
> >From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 07/14/2004 3:25:36 PM Central Standard Time,
> >archie97@earthlink.net writes:
> >Do you have CHT probes? If not, how is the oil temp?
> >Highest CHT (all 4 monitored) is #2 at 425 or less in climb, less that
390
> >in
> >cruise, with usually about 60 degree spread from coldest to hottest. Oil
> >temp never higher than 190...
> >
> >What should max CHT on this engine be?
> >
> >Thanks Archie! - Mark
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 7
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 05:00:17 PM PST US
> >From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 07/14/2004 3:34:30 PM Central Standard Time,
> >kempthornes@earthlink.net writes:
> >Is ignition timing right on?
> >Not sure- will have to check. It's been running so well otherwise, I
> >hadn't
> >even considered checking.
> >
> >Thanks Hal
> >Mark
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 8
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 05:05:40 PM PST US
> >From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Marks lyc
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 07/14/2004 4:46:54 PM Central Standard Time,
> >weshobbs@starband.net writes:
> >Mark , all of the guys are correct, including you. I agree ,you need a
> >tighter ICO, and the right mag. has no impulse, so on shut down the right
> >mag.
> >will
> >be firing @ 25 deg BTC. A good reason the engine will turn backwards a
few
> >revs. About the only thing it might hurt is the dry vacuum pump, if it
has
> >angled
> >
> >vanes-----Wes
> >Thanks, Wes- until I can check the plugs & ICO, will kill right mag with
> >mixture pull- all electric so not sucky thing!
> >
> >Mark do not archive
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 9
> >_____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 06:17:35 PM PST US
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >From: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
> >
> >Could you be mistaking what's happening here? To run backward, it would
> >have to be sucking in gas from the exhaust pipes and pumping air out the
> >carb, wouldn't it? I could see a kick back or half a turn but several
> >revolutions? hard to believe but then I've been wrong before.
> >--kent
> >
> > > From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> > > Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:23:43 EDT
> > > To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> > >
> > > --> Engines-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
> > >
> > >
> > > My E3D Lyc (150hp) has a disturbing trait of late- on shutdown, it
will
> > > sputter along, barely running at full idle cutoff, then stop for an
> >instant,
> > > then
> > > turns backwards against a cylinder compression stroke and continues to
> >run
> > > backwards for as much as 1 or 2 seconds.=A0 The engine runs fine
> >otherwise
> > > with all
> > > temps in the normal range.=A0 I had the carb apart before intial
> >running, and
> > > it
> > > seemed the cutoff valve was a little sloppy in the bottom of the float
> >bowl
> > > making me wonder just how well it could really shut off the fuel flow.
> > >
> > > It seems this would not go in the "good" category.=A0 I already
surmise
> >that
> >I
> > > am still leaking some fuel past the cutoff valve which is supplying
> >enough
> > > fuel, and that perhaps a lower vapor pressure in the mogas (regular
> >grade) I
> > > am
> > > running may contribute, particularly at higher OATs, in the high
> >80s/low90s
> > > lately.=A0 I tried running engine to 1200 rpm, then slowly pulling
> >mixture
> > > back to
> > > stumble, then quickly full back to allow the engine to suck the last
> >fuel from
> > > the intake at higher rpm, but that still didn't help.=A0 I am running
a
> > > 3-blade
> > > wood core composite prop.=A0 I'm also curious if this is bad for stuff
> > > like=20the
> > > mags, lifters, accessory gears, oil pump etc.=A0
> > >
> > > How serious is this and other than checking mixture cable/lever for
full
> > > travel, what else can I do?
> > >
> > > Thanks for any and all advice-
> > > Mark Phillips, Columbia TN - RV-6A, 950 TT on '73 engine, 83 since
first
> > > flight Jan. 31.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >________________________________ Message 10
> >____________________________________
> >
> >
> >Time: 07:05:04 PM PST US
> >From: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >Subject: Re: Engines-List: Bassackwards Lycoming
> >
> >--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >
> >
> > > --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> > >
> > > cement boil?
> >
> >The center electrode in spark plugs is cemented in place.
> >when the cement boils, or burns out, it is an indication of
> >overheating the plug, This can be caused by many factors,
> >but if the porcelain is speckled, it may be due to detonation
> >or pre ignition.
> >Archie's Racing Service
> >
> >
>
> Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Bassackwards Lycoming |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
Hal & Carol, the date on your PC is a day ahead....
Scott
At 03:33 PM 7/16/2004, Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
><kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
>Is ignition timing right on? A plug firing before TDC by too much can
>drive the piston down before it ever reaches TDC. That would rotate the
>engine backward tho not many firings I'd think.
>
>hal
>
>
"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin
Message 7
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--> Engines-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
I am running NGK BR9ES plugs and Bosch 18 mm (386?) plugs on an 0-360 and an
O-320 with dual lightspeed ignitions. I usually see tan to medium brown on
the insulator. I lean on the ground and lean aggressively in flight. On a
new engine running rich before breakin, I have seen darker brown, slightly
oily stains on the insulator.
I haven't heard of cement boil. I thought it was the electrodes that began
to melt if the plug was too hot. Sounds OK to me. How are your CHTs?
--Kent
Cozy IV - 150 hours
> From: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:14:40 -0600
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: Cement Boil
>
> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>
> I'm running automotive plugs on the top side of an IO360 Lyc, they are
> connected to a Klaus Savior electronic ignition.
>
> On the outside part of the plug the porcelain next to the metal barrel that
> screws into the head is brown. Looks like its been painted with a light
> brown stain.
>
> Is this cement boil?
>
> The plugs seem to operate fine in all other respects.
>
> Scott
>
> At 08:04 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
>> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
>>>
>>> cement boil?
>>
>> The center electrode in spark plugs is cemented in place.
>> when the cement boils, or burns out, it is an indication of
>> overheating the plug, This can be caused by many factors,
>> but if the porcelain is speckled, it may be due to detonation
>> or pre ignition.
>> Archie's Racing Service
>>
>>
>
>
> "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> - Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
Kent,
If you see the same thing its probably nothing to worry about.
I run 50 to 100 degrees LOP in cruise, up to right at peak if real high
and need the power.
My CHT's seem OK. hottest cyl is 360F in cruise in the summer, 385 on a
hot day and long climb, the spread is 320 to 360.
Scott
At 07:53 AM 7/15/2004, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: Kent Ashton <kjashton@vnet.net>
>
>I am running NGK BR9ES plugs and Bosch 18 mm (386?) plugs on an 0-360 and an
>O-320 with dual lightspeed ignitions. I usually see tan to medium brown on
>the insulator. I lean on the ground and lean aggressively in flight. On a
>new engine running rich before breakin, I have seen darker brown, slightly
>oily stains on the insulator.
>
>I haven't heard of cement boil. I thought it was the electrodes that began
>to melt if the plug was too hot. Sounds OK to me. How are your CHTs?
>--Kent
>Cozy IV - 150 hours
>
> > From: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> > Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 07:14:40 -0600
> > To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Engines-List: Cement Boil
> >
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >
> > I'm running automotive plugs on the top side of an IO360 Lyc, they are
> > connected to a Klaus Savior electronic ignition.
> >
> > On the outside part of the plug the porcelain next to the metal barrel that
> > screws into the head is brown. Looks like its been painted with a light
> > brown stain.
> >
> > Is this cement boil?
> >
> > The plugs seem to operate fine in all other respects.
> >
> > Scott
> >
> > At 08:04 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >>
> >>> --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
> >>>
> >>> cement boil?
> >>
> >> The center electrode in spark plugs is cemented in place.
> >> when the cement boils, or burns out, it is an indication of
> >> overheating the plug, This can be caused by many factors,
> >> but if the porcelain is speckled, it may be due to detonation
> >> or pre ignition.
> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > "Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
> > - Benjamin Franklin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin
Message 9
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| Subject: | Marvel Schebler carburetor |
--> Engines-List message posted by: <farmerrd@sbcglobal.net>
I have for sale a new in original carton(not overhauled) Marvel Schebler carburetor
SPA-4-5 model 10-3878. I got it with a new Lycoming engine and used a pressure
carb instead. $900.00 or make an offer. This is only $300 over core
value.
815-467-5046
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Bassackwards Lycoming |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
You could always shut off the magnetos. If it still runs, you have a
Lycoming diesel engine...
Best... Steve
Message 11
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--> Engines-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
That spark plug has a leaky seal if there is brown on the outside of the
insulator.
Best... Steve
download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
Message 12
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--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Derrick <scott@tnstaafl.net>
That's what I thought, but all 4?
So I replaced them with a high end Bosch plug, same stain on all
four! Didn't run as good on the Bosch as it did on the cheapo NGK's so I
switched back.
Scott
At 10:45 AM 7/15/2004, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "steve korney" <s_korney@hotmail.com>
>
>That spark plug has a leaky seal if there is brown on the outside of the
>insulator.
>
>
>Best... Steve
>
>download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/
>
>
"Those who sacrifice freedom to get security, deserve neither."
- Benjamin Franklin
Message 13
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--> Engines-List message posted by: "Archie" <archie97@earthlink.net>
No, that is not cement boil as described.
If you look at a new plug, notice the area between the "porcelain"
and the center electrode. There you will see the cement that is a bit
silvery in color. If this is missing, the plugs have overheated.
Archie's Racing Service
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