---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/01/04: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:13 AM - Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 (craig) 2. 05:18 AM - Pedator Performance (Ed Anderson) 3. 07:14 AM - Re: Pedator Performance (Johnny Johnson) 4. 07:23 AM - Re: Pedator Performance (Monty Barrett) 5. 08:29 AM - Re: Pedator Performance (flyv35b) 6. 09:56 AM - Re: Pedator Performance (LessDragProd@aol.com) 7. 10:16 AM - Re: predator corvette engines (JOHN COLLIER) 8. 10:38 AM - Re: predator corvette engines (Brooks Wolfe) 9. 12:09 PM - Re: Pedator Performance (Ed Anderson) 10. 12:16 PM - Re: Pedator Performance (Ed Anderson) 11. 11:42 PM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:20 AM PST US From: "craig" Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of art sitting up there. Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your looking at a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the prop. > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or 400 HP? > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > >packages? > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:18:21 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they don't specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. That power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel burn. If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is on the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular either for a 538 lb installation weight. There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote 7-8 GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't see anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and performance reported separately - but not as related items. Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. Not bad - but again, not sterling. I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the microscope fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show related power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or interpretation of data and in other cases ...... FWIW Ed Anderson Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "craig" Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of art > sitting up there. > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > looking at > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the prop. > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or 400 > HP? > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:59 AM PST US From: "Johnny Johnson" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Johnny Johnson" Ed Anderson wrote regarding the Predator V-8 package: < I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims.> < it gives the impression (although they don't < specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP < at only 15 GPH - NOT!. When they say Horsepower is 375 @ 4400 RPM and fuel consumption at max power is 12-15 GPH--all in the same list of performance specs--it seems to me you have to read that as 12-15 GPH at 375 HP... I totally agree that this is awfully hard to swallow. That is mighty good conversion of the energy in gasoline into horsepower... tongue-in-cheek I'd have to say there must not be any heat to remove--there can't be any waste energy after sucking out all that HP and sending it to the PSRU :=)) Be that as it may, what a great engine that would be for a lot of airplanes... just don't build your fuel tanks or plan your flying budget around these figures... It's interesting how they have the radiator oriented in the RV-7 uncowled picture... I suppose it must cool OK but... oh, I forgot--there is no heat to remove... cheap shot, but I couldn't resist. Personally, I hope it goes well for these guys. Here's the link to the home page in case anyone wants to look at the site and doesn't have the link from a previous post: http://www.predatoraviation.com/ There is also a fellow in Canada that puts Corvette V-8s in Sea Bees... makes quite an airplane out of it apparently: http://www.v8seabee.com/ It would be great if both of these groups were successful... the more engine options there are, the better it is for all of us. I have a Lycosaurus in my RV-3, but would love to fly behind something about 45 years closer to today's technology... does anyone have info on how Teledyne's FADEC or Lycoming's EPiC conversions are progressing and/or working out? Johnny Johnson do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:33 AM PST US From: "Monty Barrett" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Monty Barrett" RIGHT ON, ED ANDERSON!! I don't know who you are but your answer is a very scientific approach To engine data and very objective. Congratulations. More people should Do the same. There are so many " hokey" claims in the aircraft engine Business that it has become valuable just for the entertainment value. But not useable for much else. Monty Barrett Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they don't specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. That power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel burn. If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is on the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular either for a 538 lb installation weight. There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote 7-8 GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't see anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and performance reported separately - but not as related items. Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. Not bad - but again, not sterling. I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the microscope fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show related power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or interpretation of data and in other cases ...... FWIW Ed Anderson Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "craig" Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of art > sitting up there. > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > looking at > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the prop. > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or 400 > HP? > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:34 AM PST US From: "flyv35b" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b" 15 gph @ 375 hp would equate to .24 lb/hp-hr specific fuel consumption. This is most unlikely, even for a turbo diesel. The Continental IO-550 is in the neighborhood of .4 lb/hp-hr or so and that is at economy cruise with it leaned out, not full power. Cliff A&P/IA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Barrett" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Monty Barrett" > > RIGHT ON, ED ANDERSON!! > I don't know who you are but your answer is a very scientific approach > To engine data and very objective. Congratulations. More people should > Do the same. There are so many " hokey" claims in the aircraft engine > Business that it has become valuable just for the entertainment value. > But not useable for much else. > > Monty Barrett > Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the > performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can > produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max > power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they don't > specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. That > power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel burn. > If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is on > the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular > either for a 538 lb installation weight. > > There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote 7-8 > GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't see > anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are > specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and > performance reported separately - but not as related items. > > Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce > 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle > cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those > figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. > Not bad - but again, not sterling. > > I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found > over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the microscope > fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show related > power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my > mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what > it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or > interpretation of data and in other cases ...... > > > FWIW > > Ed Anderson > > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "craig" > To: > Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of > art > > sitting up there. > > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > > looking at > > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the > prop. > > > > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or > 400 > > HP? > > > > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > > Eng dept 305 > > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:21 AM PST US From: LessDragProd@aol.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com After a couple of previous brief discussions with Chris, I believe the numbers you are "quoting" are from different sources. Some provided through Chris (375 hp at sea level), and some obtained by Chris in flight (12 to 15 gph at 10,000'?). If there is 375 sea level horsepower at say, 10,000', then I guess the numbers could be worked any way you want. If you like general numbers, try using .4, or .45, on the 12 to 15 gph to obtain the engine horsepower he is probably using in flight. Jim Ayers In a message dated 09/01/2004 8:30:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes: --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b" 15 gph @ 375 hp would equate to .24 lb/hp-hr specific fuel consumption. This is most unlikely, even for a turbo diesel. The Continental IO-550 is in the neighborhood of .4 lb/hp-hr or so and that is at economy cruise with it leaned out, not full power. Cliff A&P/IA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Barrett" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Monty Barrett" > > RIGHT ON, ED ANDERSON!! > I don't know who you are but your answer is a very scientific approach > To engine data and very objective. Congratulations. More people should > Do the same. There are so many " hokey" claims in the aircraft engine > Business that it has become valuable just for the entertainment value. > But not useable for much else. > > Monty Barrett > Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the > performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can > produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max > power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they don't > specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. That > power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel burn. > If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is on > the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular > either for a 538 lb installation weight. > > There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote 7-8 > GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't see > anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are > specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and > performance reported separately - but not as related items. > > Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce > 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle > cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those > figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. > Not bad - but again, not sterling. > > I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found > over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the microscope > fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show related > power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my > mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what > it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or > interpretation of data and in other cases ...... > > > FWIW > > Ed Anderson > > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "craig" > To: > Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of > art > > sitting up there. > > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > > looking at > > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the > prop. > > > > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or > 400 > > HP? > > > > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > > Eng dept 305 > > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > > Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:24 AM PST US From: "JOHN COLLIER" Subject: Engines-List: Re: predator corvette engines --> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" Website lists 375HP...I also noticed that the prototype rv7 has air conditioning...I don't think i've ever seen that on a small GA airplane >From: Engines-List Digest Server >Reply-To: engines-list@matronics.com >To: Engines-List Digest List >Subject: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 >Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:56:27 -0700 > >* > > ================================================== > Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================== > >Today's complete Engines-List Digest can be also be found in either >of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest >formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked >Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII >version of the Engines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic >text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. > >HTML Version: > > >http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-08-31.html > >Text Version: > > >http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list/Digest.Engines-List.2004-08-31.txt > > > ================================================ > EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive > ================================================ > > > Engines-List Digest Archive > --- > Total Messages Posted Tue 08/31/04: 2 > > >Today's Message Index: >---------------------- > > 1. 02:59 PM - predator corvette engines (JOHN COLLIER) > 2. 03:23 PM - Re: predator corvette engines (Scott Bilinski) > > >________________________________ Message 1 >_____________________________________ > > >Time: 02:59:43 PM PST US >From: "JOHN COLLIER" >Subject: Engines-List: predator corvette engines > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine >packages? > > >________________________________ Message 2 >_____________________________________ > > >Time: 03:23:38 PM PST US >From: Scott Bilinski >Subject: Re: Engines-List: predator corvette engines > >--> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > >All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of >paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an >aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or 400 >HP? > > >At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > >packages? > > > > > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:02 AM PST US From: "Brooks Wolfe" Subject: Re: Engines-List: predator corvette engines --> Engines-List message posted by: "Brooks Wolfe" -------Original Message------- --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or 400 HP? The article in this month's "Custom Planes" claims 375.. Brooks ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:09:34 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Thanks Monty, Having convert and flow behind a Mazda Rotary engine in my RV-6A, I can tell you its always tempting to believe a blip in the data that shows outstanding power. However, you can only fool yourself, not the engine and not the airplane {:>). After 7 years I have learned there are no magic solutions, just incremental improvements that increase power. Induction and exhaust are the key in my opinion, they can make or break any engine installation. I keep waiting for one of those magic engines to appear - but, hasn't happened yet. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Monty Barrett" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Monty Barrett" > > RIGHT ON, ED ANDERSON!! > I don't know who you are but your answer is a very scientific approach > To engine data and very objective. Congratulations. More people should > Do the same. There are so many " hokey" claims in the aircraft engine > Business that it has become valuable just for the entertainment value. > But not useable for much else. > > Monty Barrett > Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the > performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can > produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max > power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they don't > specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. That > power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel burn. > If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is on > the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular > either for a 538 lb installation weight. > > There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote 7-8 > GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't see > anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are > specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and > performance reported separately - but not as related items. > > Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce > 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle > cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those > figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. > Not bad - but again, not sterling. > > I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found > over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the microscope > fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show related > power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my > mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what > it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or > interpretation of data and in other cases ...... > > > FWIW > > Ed Anderson > > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "craig" > To: > Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of > art > > sitting up there. > > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > > looking at > > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the > prop. > > > > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece of > > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or > 400 > > HP? > > > > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette engine > > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > > Eng dept 305 > > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:09 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Pedator Performance --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Don't know -- you could be right, Jim. I got the numbers right off of their web site. Like I said - any of those figures can be factual, but that doesn't tell you very much unless Power, fuel burn and performance are tied together in a meaningful manner. I did not see that on their engine spec page. I used 0.45 BSFC for my calculation giving them the benefit of a excellent design and at 15 GPh I come up with 200 HP. Like I said not bad - just not extrodinary. Perhaps the value is in the high torque figures - would enable you to swing a much longer prop and probably provide gobs of thrust on take off. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > --> Engines-List message posted by: LessDragProd@aol.com > > > After a couple of previous brief discussions with Chris, I believe the > numbers you are "quoting" are from different sources. Some provided through Chris > (375 hp at sea level), and some obtained by Chris in flight (12 to 15 gph at > 10,000'?). > > If there is 375 sea level horsepower at say, 10,000', then I guess the > numbers could be worked any way you want. > > If you like general numbers, try using .4, or .45, on the 12 to 15 gph to > obtain the engine horsepower he is probably using in flight. > > Jim Ayers > > > In a message dated 09/01/2004 8:30:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > flyv35b@ashcreekwireless.com writes: > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "flyv35b" > > 15 gph @ 375 hp would equate to .24 lb/hp-hr specific fuel consumption. > This is most unlikely, even for a turbo diesel. The Continental IO-550 is > in the neighborhood of .4 lb/hp-hr or so and that is at economy cruise with > it leaned out, not full power. > > Cliff A&P/IA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Monty Barrett" > To: > Subject: RE: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Monty Barrett" > > > > RIGHT ON, ED ANDERSON!! > > I don't know who you are but your answer is a very scientific approach > > To engine data and very objective. Congratulations. More people should > > Do the same. There are so many " hokey" claims in the aircraft engine > > Business that it has become valuable just for the entertainment value. > > But not useable for much else. > > > > Monty Barrett > > Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson > > To: engines-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Engines-List: Pedator Performance > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > > > > > I suggest a bit closer investigation into the claims. Look at the > > performance web page closely. Note that while they claim the engine can > > produce 375 HP and they claim the engine only consumes 12-15 GPH at Max > > power and even less at cruise - it gives the impression (although they > don't > > specifically claim it) that you can have 375 HP at only 15 GPH - NOT!. > That > > power - on even the best designs - would require closer to 25 GPH fuel > burn. > > If the 15 GPH at max power is correct then the maximum power produced is > on > > the order of 180-200HP at best - not 375HP. Not bad - but not spectacular > > either for a 538 lb installation weight. > > > > There is the claim of 200MPH at 1/2 throttle cruise and they then quote > 7-8 > > GPH for cruise fuel burn which produces on the order of 115 HP. I don't > see > > anyplace where the fuel burn AND the power produced AND performance are > > specifically tied together. You see power reported, fuel burn reported and > > performance reported separately - but not as related items. > > > > Any single performance item by itself might be factual - could produce > > 375HP - could burn 12-15GPH -could cruise at 200MPH at 1/2 throttle > > cruise -could burn 7-8 gph - but I could find no combination of those > > figures that withstood any scrutiny, other than perhaps 200MPH at 15 GPH. > > Not bad - but again, not sterling. > > > > I am an "auto/Alternative" engine enthusiast myself, however, I have found > > over the years numerous claims which when you put them under the > microscope > > fail to stand the scrutiny. Those that make claims that do not show > related > > power, fuel burn and performance figures always raise questions in my > > mind - WHY NOT! In some cases, its simply a limited understanding of what > > it takes to produce power, somecases of instrumentation errors or > > interpretation of data and in other cases ...... > > > > > > FWIW > > > > Ed Anderson > > > > > > Ed Anderson > > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > > Matthews, NC > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "craig" > > To: > > Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/31/04 > > > > > > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "craig" > > > > > > I have a friend that is putting it in a Seabee. It looks like a piece of > > art > > > sitting up there. > > > Plus he has the air conditioning installed also. > > > I was wondering if anyone has put in the Zenith a russian M14. Your > > > looking at > > > a supercharge 360 hp with a weight of only around 430 ish without the > > prop. > > > > > > > > > > All I am hearing is that this engine was designed from a blank piece > of > > > > paper to run at 100% max HP all the time. Thats a good start for an > > > > aircraft engine. Supposed installed weight 530 LBS. What was it 350 or > > 400 > > > HP? > > > > > > > > > > > > At 09:59 PM 8/31/2004 +0000, you wrote: > > > > >--> Engines-List message posted by: "JOHN COLLIER" > > > > > > > > > > > > >Anyone have any info/experience with predator aviations corvette > engine > > > > >packages? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > > > Eng dept 305 > > > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:19 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Engines-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> Engines-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Lister, Please read over the Engines-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Engines-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Engines-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [This is an automated posting.]