Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:44 AM - Engine incident mystery (Gary Casey)
2. 08:09 AM - Re: Engine incident mystery (AI Nut)
3. 10:34 AM - Re: Engine incident mystery (jerb)
4. 11:40 AM - Re: Engine incident mystery (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
5. 11:40 AM - Fw: Lycoming Engine Specialist needed (Martini Luc J.R.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Engine incident mystery |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
My partner and I have an IO-360(D) engine in our Cardinal that is
misbehaving and so far is a total mystery. This engine has about 4,000TT
and 1350SMOH and has had all the cylinders "repaired" with new pistons and
rings about 200 hours ago. At approximately that time the fuel servo, fuel
distributor, fuel pump, electric pump and all the hoses were replaced.
Included were all the seals in the gascolator. Maybe someone on the list
has a suggestion:
He was flying it a while back at 9500 ft, ROP, about 65 degrees ambient. It
was about an hour or so into the flight with probably half the fuel left (I
don't know if the fuel selector was in "both" or not. He said that it
suddenly started "bucking and shaking" but it lasted only a few seconds,
after which it ran perfect. He didn't look at the JPI or the fuel
flow(pressure) during the event as it didn't last very long. He continued
home, staying high and over airports. I immediately thought of valve
sticking problems and my usual A&P and I did the Lycoming valve clearance
test. All the valve guides were on the loose side of the clearance limits.
We checked everything else we could find and fixed a couple of intake and
exhaust flange leaks. All valves opened the same amount (subjective
observation). The plugs all looked okay, but some were wetter than others
(the engine burns a quart every 4 hours). We took off the distributor cap
and found a loose connection at one of the breaker points. The connector
pulled easily off the spade terminal. That was tightened and it was
observed that there was no oil or other problem with the mag. Not finding a
smoking gun, I took it for a 1-hour test flight over the airport during
which time it ran perfect. This was followed by another 1-hour flight,
complete with a "GAMI" lean test. Everything being normal, we continued to
fly and it had about 30 hours of uneventful operation after that.
Then this weekend I was flying it, climbing out at 7500 feet, heavily
loaded, at 2500 rpm, WOT and leaned to 1350-1400 EGT at 105 mph indicated.
We had about 40 gallons of fuel with the selector on both. The engine went
from perfectly smooth to dead(I think) and then came back to life a half
second later. I say dead because during the off time it was perfectly
smooth with no roughness that I would expect from one dead cylinder. When
it came back to life it surged back up to normal rpm and then immediately
quit again. This occurred for maybe 5 to 10 cycles and then suddenly
everything was normal. I immediately pushed the mixture in, but I'm pretty
sure that didn't have any effect. By the time I turned toward lower ground
the event was over. I'll admit that I didn't look at the engine monitor -
the non-recording kind - and didn't notice what the fuel pressure gauge was
saying. We headed for the nearest airport, continuing to climb, and looked
things over. Not finding anything, we continued. We put another 5 hours on
it since with not hint of a problem. Some other observations:
There was never any indication of water in the fuel. We fuel from an
underground tank, it hasn't rained in months, and the plane is stored in a
hanger. My partner had fueled remotely and I fueled at our home base. I
always drain all 5 sumps. A few years ago the ignition switch was worked on
to comply with an AD note (service bulletin?). The mag was serviced in
accordance with the AD note about 18 months and 200 hours ago. At the last
annual 3 months ago we replaced all the plugs with "rebuilt" plugs. The
ignition wires are old. I'm pretty sure one mag side didn't drop out as the
rpm drop was too much for that - one thing I did notice was that the tach
needle was wildly flinging about, not what would happen if one set of plugs
quit firing. I'm pretty sure one or two cylinders didn't stop firing as
there was no roughness or vibration. I've never seen any wavering or
unsteadiness in the fuel flow indication before or after the event. It
might be my imagination, but I'm not sure if it runs as smooth LOP as
before. In neither case was the electric pump turned on. Was the cause of
this event the same as for the previous one reported by my partner? I
assume it was, although his description is a little different than mine.
Anybody got any brilliant ideas? I can't come up with a reason to ground
the plane, but I don't feel comfortable flying it either.
Gary Casey
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine incident mystery |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
Could be a bad ground, after replacing all those electrical items. Good
luck, as intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose and fix.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Engine incident mystery
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>
> My partner and I have an IO-360(D) engine in our Cardinal that is
> misbehaving and so far is a total mystery. This engine has about 4,000TT
> and 1350SMOH and has had all the cylinders "repaired" with new pistons and
> rings about 200 hours ago. At approximately that time the fuel servo,
fuel
> distributor, fuel pump, electric pump and all the hoses were replaced.
> Included were all the seals in the gascolator. Maybe someone on the list
> has a suggestion:
>
> He was flying it a while back at 9500 ft, ROP, about 65 degrees ambient.
It
> was about an hour or so into the flight with probably half the fuel left
(I
><<<snip>>>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engine incident mystery |
--> Engines-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
Make sure your fuel tank vents are not plugged - seems like you fly for a
while before the condition surfaces, as you fly the fuel pump would have to
pull against an increasing vacuum. If your actually loosing the engine,
the common elements I would suspect are fuel or ignition. First thing that
came to mine was a faulty intermittent ignition switch. Also check the
ignition leads for chaffing where they pass thru the fire wall. Water in
the fuel could be a possible cause - ask you A&P if there is any water
absorber that can be added to the fuel that will not create a problem -
much of the dry-gas for auto use contains alcohol.
jerb
At 10:09 AM 9/20/04 -0500, you wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "AI Nut" <ainut@earthlink.net>
>
>Could be a bad ground, after replacing all those electrical items. Good
>luck, as intermittent problems are the hardest to diagnose and fix.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Engines-List: Engine incident mystery
>
>
> > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Gary Casey" <glcasey@adelphia.net>
> >
> > My partner and I have an IO-360(D) engine in our Cardinal that is
> > misbehaving and so far is a total mystery. This engine has about 4,000TT
> > and 1350SMOH and has had all the cylinders "repaired" with new pistons and
> > rings about 200 hours ago. At approximately that time the fuel servo,
>fuel
> > distributor, fuel pump, electric pump and all the hoses were replaced.
> > Included were all the seals in the gascolator. Maybe someone on the list
> > has a suggestion:
> >
> > He was flying it a while back at 9500 ft, ROP, about 65 degrees ambient.
>It
> > was about an hour or so into the flight with probably half the fuel left
>(I
> ><<<snip>>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine incident mystery |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Hmmm.
Sounds electrical. Fuel problems kill the engine more slowly but not
always. I seriously doubt it is engine itself. Engine quitting completely
is a very helpful clue. It pretty much eliminates plugs, plug wires,
magnetos. Here is what I'd check:
1. Ignition switch.
2. Magneto primary wires are both grounding somewhere.
3. If not running on both tanks, plugged fuel line or plugged tank vent.
4. Aircraft is not in inverted flight.
I would ground it if it were mine or at least limit flights to gliding
distance to runway. This power plant is talking to you!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fw: Lycoming Engine Specialist needed |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Martini Luc J.R." <martinil@comcast.net>
Hi All
I am in need of a Lycoming Engine Specialist to write an Affidavit concerning the
facts of an engine repair that went badly sour. The case is being heard in
Southern California, so it would be preferable to have someone from that area
in case this goes to trial, so he/she can appear as an expert witness.
I have tried to recruit Paul McBride, but he has been unavailable, and was likely
at the Reno Air Races.
If you know anyone that fits the bill, I would certainly appreciate some help with
this GO480 problem.
Thanks
Luc Martini
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