Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:56 AM - Re: Fuel return lines (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
2. 08:56 AM - Re: Engines-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/02/05 (Speedy11@aol.com)
3. 10:49 AM - Re: Re: Engines-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/02/05 (rd2@evenlink.com)
4. 11:59 AM - Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article (Cory Emberson)
5. 12:33 PM - Re: Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article (Tore S. Bristol)
6. 12:40 PM - Re: Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article (Cory Emberson)
7. 07:21 PM - Re: Fuel return lines (Ken)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Fuel return lines |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
It may be vastly overblown (I don't believe so myself) but ask why an
Eggenfelner powered RV crashed on Take off...Answer Vapour lock....Guess
where the fuel pumps were?..
Answer...Engine side of the firewall.
The real sad thing....I knew it happen and argued with them about it for
quite a while before it happened.
Ok so back to the problem...Gasoline is a high vapour pressure fluid. If
the net positive head is reduced below the VP of the liquid in qustion
it will boil...Boiling fuel will vapour lock the pump.
Vpressure increases rapidly with temperature..So you want to keep the
pumps as cool as possible....This means the firewall is a poor
choice...Forget blast tubes...The Egg powerd RV was so equipped..They
don't work well enough.
The further you get away from the tank the lower the pressure will
be...Espescially if its uphill. You must make sure there are very few
(None is good) restrictions between the tank and the pump. Restrictions
include too small pipe, too long, too many fittings, valves etc.
Hydraulically speaking the best place is INSIDE the tank...Practically
this is difficult to achieve.
Here is another thought...What if you have a right/left selector before
the pump?...What happenes to the fuel during the 1/10th of a second that
fuel does not flow?...It will boil. Is this vapour bubble enough to lock
the pump?....Probably not but are we sure?
Remember once a pump fills wit vapour it will not pump anymore against a
regulator spring...Must therefore have a small bypass around the
regulator.
Bottom line at the very least get the pumps off the firewall and into a
nice cool location inside the cabin...Mine are going in the wing roots!
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AI Nut
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Fuel return lines
--> Engines-List message posted by: AI Nut <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
>--> <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>There are a few things missing here.
>
>
>
<<<snip>>>
to quote:
If so (using fuel injection) do not under any circumstance (and I know
I'll get flamed for this) use either a firewall mounted electric or
mechanical fuel pump.
The risks from vapour lock are real and deadly.
Not sure I follow the mechanics you're talking about here, so please
tell me what you think of my setup. I have my electric fuel pump on the
engine side of the firewall. It is located physically below the plane
of the fuel tank, so it will be gravity fed as well as (possibly)
sucking from the tank. It then pushes the fuel up about 18 inches to
the intake. Pump is strong enough for the 18" head, but do you see a
vapor lock possibility here???
Yes, I intend to use mogas but I don't see how that makes a difference
here. The vapor potentials for mogas versus avgas have been shown to be
vastly overblown. Under certain limited conditions, yes it can happen
so I want to ensure my system has that possibility engineered out of it.
Thanks,
David
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/02/05 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
It reduces it down to this: scratch Barrett from my list of potential engine
sources.
Stan Sutterfield
Tampa
www.rv-8a.net
In a message dated 3/3/2005 6:36:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
engines-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
It reduces down to this: some people just should not be allowed to
build
Experimental aircraft or engines.
Monty Barrett
Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Engines-List Digest: 15 Msgs - 03/02/05 |
--> Engines-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com
I wouldn't necessarily - it would rob me of the opportunity for a good,
heated, argument :) .
Rumen
do not archive
_____________________Original message __________________________
(received from Speedy11@aol.com; Date: 11:55 AM 03/03/05
EST)
--> Engines-List message posted by: Speedy11@aol.com
It reduces it down to this: scratch Barrett from my list of potential engine
sources.
Stan Sutterfield
Tampa
www.rv-8a.net
In a message dated 3/3/2005 6:36:31 AM Eastern Standard Time,
engines-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
It reduces down to this: some people just should not be allowed to
build
Experimental aircraft or engines.
Monty Barrett
Barrett Performance Aircraft, Inc.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Hello everyone,
I've subscribed (quietly) to this list for a little more than a year, and
would like to hear from you if you're a kit builder who has successfully
installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm writing a
builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an installation
that's flown for a minimum of 150 hours, and is currently flying.
For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay you
$100 for the write-up. We would also need at least 2-3 good photos,
including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft.
Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you
have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at
least 300 dpi.
I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate, but
we can handle that off-line.
Please feel free to contact me off-line at:
cory @ lightspeededit.com (remove the spaces - my anti-spam protection)
or reply offline to my list email address.
I have a rather short deadline, so if you're able to contact me as soon as
you're able, I would greatly appreciate it!
Thank you so much!
best,
Cory Emberson
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tore S. Bristol" <tf51@c2i.net>
Hi Cory
I am a FEW Mustang builder in Norway, but I have not flown yet.
Try Robert Oliver, he is as far as I know the only Mustang builder with over
150 hrs.
E-mail ROCSLO@charter.net He is flying a GM small block.
The rest of us are slowed down waiting on the PSRU.
Regards
Tore S Bristol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson"
> <bootless@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've subscribed (quietly) to this list for a little more than a year, and
> would like to hear from you if you're a kit builder who has successfully
> installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm writing a
> builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an
> installation
> that's flown for a minimum of 150 hours, and is currently flying.
>
> For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay
> you
> $100 for the write-up. We would also need at least 2-3 good photos,
> including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft.
> Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you
> have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at
> least 300 dpi.
>
> I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate,
> but
> we can handle that off-line.
>
> Please feel free to contact me off-line at:
> cory @ lightspeededit.com (remove the spaces - my anti-spam protection)
> or reply offline to my list email address.
>
> I have a rather short deadline, so if you're able to contact me as soon as
> you're able, I would greatly appreciate it!
>
> Thank you so much!
>
> best,
> Cory Emberson
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article |
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Thank you, Tore! I really appreciate the tip. I'll contact him today.
best regards, and here's to a good first flight!
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tore S.
Bristol
Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Engines-List: Builder Feedback Requested
for Kitplanes Article
--> Engines-List message posted by: "Tore S. Bristol" <tf51@c2i.net>
Hi Cory
I am a FEW Mustang builder in Norway, but I have not flown yet.
Try Robert Oliver, he is as far as I know the only Mustang builder with over
150 hrs.
E-mail ROCSLO@charter.net He is flying a GM small block.
The rest of us are slowed down waiting on the PSRU.
Regards
Tore S Bristol
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Subject: Engines-List: Builder Feedback Requested for Kitplanes Article
> --> Engines-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson"
> <bootless@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I've subscribed (quietly) to this list for a little more than a year, and
> would like to hear from you if you're a kit builder who has successfully
> installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm writing a
> builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an
> installation
> that's flown for a minimum of 150 hours, and is currently flying.
>
> For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay
> you
> $100 for the write-up. We would also need at least 2-3 good photos,
> including a close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft.
> Additional photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you
> have digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at
> least 300 dpi.
>
> I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like to participate,
> but
> we can handle that off-line.
>
> Please feel free to contact me off-line at:
> cory @ lightspeededit.com (remove the spaces - my anti-spam protection)
> or reply offline to my list email address.
>
> I have a rather short deadline, so if you're able to contact me as soon as
> you're able, I would greatly appreciate it!
>
> Thank you so much!
>
> best,
> Cory Emberson
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return lines |
--> Engines-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Are you sure you are not referring to one of the installations that
routed the return fuel (and vapour bubbles) back to the pump inlet
(possibly through a silly little cooler first) instead of back to a
tank? There are many successful planes flying with the pumps on the
firewall and plumbed properly.
Ken
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>--> Engines-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>It may be vastly overblown (I don't believe so myself) but ask why an
>Eggenfelner powered RV crashed on Take off...Answer Vapour lock....Guess
>where the fuel pumps were?..
>
>
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