---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 11/16/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Highlight Two (Matt Dralle) 2. 11:42 AM - Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (coenvanwyk@lantic.net) 3. 12:15 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (Charlie England) 4. 12:17 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor (Scott Bilinski) 5. 01:31 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (Hans Teijgeler) 6. 01:46 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (Ed Anderson) 7. 01:51 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (Ed Anderson) 8. 01:52 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (sgettings@cfl.rr.com) 9. 06:05 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? () 10. 06:49 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? () 11. 07:20 PM - Re: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? (Ed Anderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:31 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Engines-List: Highlight Two --> Engines-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Email List Forums at Matronics. There is no commercial advertising on any of the Lists to support their operation, and it is solely YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS that keeps these Lists up and running. Please take a second to make your Contribution today at the secure website: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Below is a highlight of another one of the awesome Free Gifts available along with this year's List Fund Raiser. In most cases, these gifts have been either donated or provided at exceptional discounts by aviation vendors that participate regularly on these vary same Lists. I want to thank each of them for the generous support of the Lists during this Fund Raiser. Please show your support for their efforts by visiting their respective web sites. Thank you for your kind support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Gift Highlight Number Two - Mechanics's Toolbox CD - Builder's Bookstore * With your $60 or greater List Contribution, you can register to receive a free copy of the 2005 edition of John Schwaner's Mechanic's Toolbox CD. It is essentially a computerized version of the Mechanic's Handbook, and highlights the needs of powerplant technicians working with reciprocating engines. The CD contains two basic sections. The first is a mechanics guide to inspecting, troubleshooting and operating Lycoming and Continental engines. The second is a Mechanic's Toolbox offering many of the most useful items typically found in printed Mechanic's Handbooks and a few other handy items not found anywhere else. Works with Windows 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP. To receive your copy, visit the List Contribution Web site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution * This gift is provided by Andy Gold of The Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com/ do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:41 AM PST US Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? From: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" Bounce-To: coenvanwyk@lantic.net --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" Dear list members, Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw it on the net. Is it a vibration problem? I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with me, Coen van Wyk ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:27 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: Charlie England coenvanwyk@lantic.net wrote: >--> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > >Dear list members, > >Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a >need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there >are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less >than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > >The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single >rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we >not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than >a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw >it on the net. > >Is it a vibration problem? > >I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with >me, > >Coen van Wyk > The best source for rotary info (especially single rotor) is the flyrotary list. Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/ Archive and UnSub: http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/ Ask for input from Rusty Duffy (mounting a more or less 'stock' cut down 13B on a Kolb, won't hit your weight target) & Richard Sohn (developing one with aluminum end housings that will hit your weight target). Tons of additional resources within that group. Charlie flying Lyc RV-4 Building RV-7 (potentially rotary powered) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:38 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski wankel? Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski wankel? To keep it short, yes the engine is light, but you need a large oil cooler (30% of the heat rejected through the oil cooler!) and radiator, they are also very noisy. The exhaust pulses are very harsh and will trash a standard muffler in a few days. The exhaust pipe coming out of the engine needs to be .125 thick steel due to the EGT temps around 1600 F which is normal. So, heavy exhaust, large radiator with coolant, and oil cooler equals an additional 35 lbs or so, maybe more? Then there is the cooling issues in a plane there never seems to be enough room. Contact this guy to hear a success story. http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ At 07:41 PM 11/16/2005 +0000, you wrote: >--> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > > >Dear list members, > >Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a >need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there >are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less >than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > >The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single >rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we >not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than >a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw >it on the net. > >Is it a vibration problem? > >I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with >me, > >Coen van Wyk > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:27 PM PST US From: "Hans Teijgeler" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler" Coen, How about a Subaru EA-81? 185lbs dry weight, including starter, redrive, alternator (my own measurements on a Stratus EA-81). An easy 100 hp with the right cams and carbs, much more experience around, as well as good parts availability. Where are you located? Going by your name, I wouldn't be surprised if you were Dutch. In that case, by all means, visit Prekas at Lelystad airport (www.prekas.nl). They've got loads of experience with the EA-81 and are running a few on a near daily basis. Hans > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of coenvanwyk@lantic.net > Sent: woensdag 16 november 2005 20:41 > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > > --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > > > Dear list members, > > Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a > need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there > are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less > than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > > The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single > rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we > not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than > a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw > it on the net. > > Is it a vibration problem? > > I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with > me, > > Coen van Wyk > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:42 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" I have flow a two rotor wankel since 1998 in my RV-6A. They make an excellent aircraft engine - but do require a lot of work to configure and install as their are not currently any FWF conversions for aircraft . The good news is most of the pieces are available for aircraft conversion. Here is an excellent source of information on products for the rotary engine in aircraft and the products are tested by the developer and his rotary powered RV-4 which has hit over 215MPH. He has over 1600 hours of flying a rotary. Tracy Crook's Web page of information and products (great place to start) web page: http://www.rotaryaviation.com email: tcook@rotaryaviation.com You can find a used two rotor engine and rebuild it and have less than $2000 invested (maybe as little as $1000) doing it yourself. But, you would also need agear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed for the prop. Depends on what you use/make - but that can add another $1500-$3000. Any time you go for the one rotor version ( of which a couple of guys are working with) you save some weight but probably add to the cost as they all have to be made. Since they are liquid cooled you will also need radiators and oil cooler along with a fuel and lubrication system. Join the fly rotary list and several folks on it are working with the one rotary - can get better information from those actually doing it. An informed decision is good for all. FlyRotary Group (Sign on for e mail list at their web page) web page: http://www.flyrotary.com/ e mail: flyrotary@lancaironline.net Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > > > Dear list members, > > Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a > need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there > are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less > than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > > The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single > rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we > not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than > a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw > it on the net. > > Is it a vibration problem? > > I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with > me, > > Coen van Wyk > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:24 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Good point, Hans If I were needing an engine of around 100-120 HP the Subaru would be on the top of my list. Given the current lack of any source for one rotors (at this time), a Subaru would have to be given top consideration. Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Teijgeler" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > --> Engines-List message posted by: "Hans Teijgeler" > > Coen, > > How about a Subaru EA-81? 185lbs dry weight, including starter, redrive, > alternator (my own measurements on a Stratus EA-81). An easy 100 hp with > the > right cams and carbs, much more experience around, as well as good parts > availability. > > Where are you located? Going by your name, I wouldn't be surprised if you > were Dutch. In that case, by all means, visit Prekas at Lelystad airport > (www.prekas.nl). They've got loads of experience with the EA-81 and are > running a few on a near daily basis. > > Hans > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list- >> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of coenvanwyk@lantic.net >> Sent: woensdag 16 november 2005 20:41 >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? >> >> --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" >> >> >> Dear list members, >> >> Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I have a >> need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there >> are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at less >> than $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. >> >> The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a single >> rotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So why are we >> not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer than >> a two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt one, I saw >> it on the net. >> >> Is it a vibration problem? >> >> I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience with >> me, >> >> Coen van Wyk >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:38 PM PST US From: sgettings@cfl.rr.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: sgettings@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > > Dear list members, > > Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I > have a > need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there > are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at > lessthan $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > > The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a > singlerotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So > why are we > not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer > thana two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt > one, I saw > it on the net. > > Is it a vibration problem? > > I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience > withme, > > Coen van Wyk > > Also try: http://www.rotaryeng.net/ Scott Gettings Glass Goose / Renesis ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:05:59 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: I have a 0-200 for sale for $3500. It was running as I understand when removed from a Cessna. I have the log books and last 100 hr check all was ok. The compression was good and no shavings on the magnetic plug. That is all I know about it. Thanks Bob Tichy ----- Original Message ----- From: sgettings@cfl.rr.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: sgettings@cfl.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > --> Engines-List message posted by: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > > Dear list members, > > Can anyone tell me if they know of a single rotor Mazda Wankel? I > have a > need for about 100 horse power, at less than 200 pounds. I know there > are a number of options beween an O200 and a Rotax 912, but none at > lessthan $ 5000, at least not in my neck of the woods. > > The Wankel looks ideal, modular, not too expensive (Atkins has a > singlerotor e-shaft for $ 500, a PSRU seems relatively easy). So > why are we > not knee deep in them? I know it will be more expensive to engineer > thana two rotor conversion, but what is the catch? Yaw power bilt > one, I saw > it on the net. > > Is it a vibration problem? > > I would appreciate if anyone on the list can share their experience > withme, > > Coen van Wyk > > Also try: http://www.rotaryeng.net/ Scott Gettings Glass Goose / Renesis ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:30 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: > I was talking to one of the lads at our last RAA meeting and I asked him about a single rotor wankle and he said it's not a good idea because there is a lot of vibration with it.He was very criticle of it. > From: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" > Date: 2005/11/16 Wed PM 02:41:09 EST > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:26 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? --> Engines-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" The one rotor wankel, like just about any revolving assembly, can be balanced. All it takes is the right amount of balancing mass located in the correct position relative to the rotating mass. In reality, since the rotor is already rotating rather than a piston yanking a bent crankshaft back and forth, a rotor is technically easier to balance than most rotating assemblies. It is true (like with any unbalanced assembly) that an unbalanced rotor can certainly have horrid vibrations - but, then so would any unbalanced rotating assembly. There are always pros and cons to an approach but I wouldn't consider vibration to be a major factor, certain other factors would carry more weight in any decision I would make regarding use of a one rotor. Ed Anderson ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? > --> Engines-List message posted by: > > >> I was talking to one of the lads at our last RAA meeting and I asked him >> about a single rotor wankle and he said it's not a good idea because >> there is a lot of vibration with it.He was very criticle of it. >> From: "coenvanwyk@lantic.net" >> Date: 2005/11/16 Wed PM 02:41:09 EST >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Engines-List: Anyone know about a running single rotor wankel? >> >> > > >