Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:38 AM - Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question (Gary Casey)
2. 05:52 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (jrc)
3. 06:34 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (Kelly McMullen)
4. 06:45 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (jrc)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question (Noel Loveys)
6. 07:32 AM - Re: Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question (Wayne Sweet)
7. 09:09 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
8. 09:35 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (jrc)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (Monty Barrett Sr)
10. 10:53 AM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (jrc)
11. 03:17 PM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (Archie)
12. 04:11 PM - 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 (Tim Warlick)
13. 04:51 PM - Re: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 (Archie)
14. 05:07 PM - Re: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 (jrc)
15. 06:01 PM - Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? (jrc)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question |
>
The most straightforward thing to do is have the D mag rebuilt with
all the AD's complied with. If that is done the reliability is
reported to be as good as that of dual mags. If you want a
performance increase I believe you can buy a Lightspeed ignition with
a crank trigger that would fire half the plugs. You can bolt a
single mag, presumably without an impulse coupling, in the place of
the dual. A third option is to convert the accessory case to a dual
drive, but I doubt if the H engine allows that.
Gary Casey
> Time: 07:46:17 AM PST US
> From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
> Subject: Engines-List: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag
> question
>
> I got a D engine O-320 H2AD as part of a project, in good
> condition, already
> mounted so I want to keep it. It needs a mag rebuild. This is
> the "D" mag,
> dual drive, allegedly more failure prone because of a common drive
> gear.
>
> 1. any recommendations on upgrades to the D mag while still
> keeping the D
> mag engine certified
>
> 2. any information/recommendations on using a "crank trigger"
> ignition as
> the source for firing the second set of plugs? from what I read
> in hot rod
> magazine these are old hat in big hp stressed engines, maybe a
> Megasquirt with
>
> 4 separate coils? This would avoid the single point failure of
> the drive
> gear, and would be fun to play with timing changes.
>
> I'll keep the carb for now.
>
> Is there an easy conversion to use a single regular mag driven off the
> accessory case?
>
> While I am here, what is the latest information re roller cam
> followers for
> this engine, there is no T modification done to this engine.
>
> This is in an experimental so I could ....
>
> Thanks for any help, Skip Simpson
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit
the bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio.
The O-200 I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting
out something on the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1
compression), but I'd like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have
friend who makes custom pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck.
Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might
I talk to about stroking a crank?
----- Original Message -----
From: Archie
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
----- Original Message -----
From: jrc
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
Archie, would it be possible to stroke an experimental O-200, and if
so, about how much?
JimC
Yes, but it requires custom pistons, and the overall cost would not
be worth it.
I did a special O-200 that produced 161hp at 2700. (stock stroke)
For what it cost to develop, the customer could have bought a brand
new
O-360 engine and then some.
Archie
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
Have you looked into what TCM IO-240 components you might be able to
use? I've forgotten how TCM gets the extra displacement, but it is
based on the same crankcase.
On 1/19/07, jrc <jrccea@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit the
> bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio. The O-200
> I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting out something on
> the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1 compression), but I'd
> like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have friend who makes custom
> pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit
> ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might I talk to about stroking a
> crank?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Archie
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jrc
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:31 PM
> Subject: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
>
> Archie, would it be possible to stroke an experimental O-200, and if so,
> about how much?
> JimC
>
> Yes, but it requires custom pistons, and the overall cost would not be worth
> it.
> I did a special O-200 that produced 161hp at 2700. (stock stroke)
> For what it cost to develop, the customer could have bought a brand new
> O-360 engine and then some.
> Archie
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
> - The Engines-List Email Forum -
> Navigator to browse
> page,
> Photoshare, and much much more:
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> the Web Forums!
> http://forums.matronics.com
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
The O-240 gets its displacement from the use of IO-360 cylinders. It has
the same stroke as the O-200.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:33 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
>
> Have you looked into what TCM IO-240 components you might be able to
> use? I've forgotten how TCM gets the extra displacement, but it is
> based on the same crankcase.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question |
If you are taking votes I would vote for the single mag and the Lightspeed
CDI combi...
Noel
Do not archive.... See sometimes I do remember.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Gary Casey
> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:07 AM
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Engines-List: Re: lycoming dual mag D engine
> alternative mag question
>
>
>
> >
> The most straightforward thing to do is have the D mag rebuilt with
> all the AD's complied with. If that is done the reliability is
> reported to be as good as that of dual mags. If you want a
> performance increase I believe you can buy a Lightspeed
> ignition with
> a crank trigger that would fire half the plugs. You can bolt a
> single mag, presumably without an impulse coupling, in the place of
> the dual. A third option is to convert the accessory case to a dual
> drive, but I doubt if the H engine allows that.
> Gary Casey
> > Time: 07:46:17 AM PST US
> > From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
> > Subject: Engines-List: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag
> > question
> >
> > I got a D engine O-320 H2AD as part of a project, in good
> > condition, already
> > mounted so I want to keep it. It needs a mag rebuild. This is
> > the "D" mag,
> > dual drive, allegedly more failure prone because of a
> common drive
> > gear.
> >
> > 1. any recommendations on upgrades to the D mag while still
> > keeping the D
> > mag engine certified
> >
> > 2. any information/recommendations on using a "crank trigger"
> > ignition as
> > the source for firing the second set of plugs? from what I read
> > in hot rod
> > magazine these are old hat in big hp stressed engines, maybe a
> > Megasquirt with
> >
> > 4 separate coils? This would avoid the single point failure of
> > the drive
> > gear, and would be fun to play with timing changes.
> >
> > I'll keep the carb for now.
> >
> > Is there an easy conversion to use a single regular mag
> driven off the
> > accessory case?
> >
> > While I am here, what is the latest information re roller cam
> > followers for
> > this engine, there is no T modification done to this engine.
> >
> > This is in an experimental so I could ....
> >
> > Thanks for any help, Skip Simpson
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag question |
I agree with this idea. However, make sure you do a mag check at the end of
every flight, so if the mag died in flight, you can fix it before the next
flight, since you will see no noticeable indications in flight. The mag in a
LSE CDI - mag combo is there just in case, since it does little or nothing;
turning off the mag on a regular mag check shows no RPM drop, at least in my
initial installation. I now have dual LSE CDI's and had to warn a CFI giving
me a biennual check that there would be no RPM drop when shutting off either
CDI. That says something about how efficient those CDI's are.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:46 AM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Re: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag
question
>
> If you are taking votes I would vote for the single mag and the Lightspeed
> CDI combi...
>
> Noel
> Do not archive.... See sometimes I do remember.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> Gary Casey
>> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 10:07 AM
>> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Engines-List: Re: lycoming dual mag D engine
>> alternative mag question
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> The most straightforward thing to do is have the D mag rebuilt with
>> all the AD's complied with. If that is done the reliability is
>> reported to be as good as that of dual mags. If you want a
>> performance increase I believe you can buy a Lightspeed
>> ignition with
>> a crank trigger that would fire half the plugs. You can bolt a
>> single mag, presumably without an impulse coupling, in the place of
>> the dual. A third option is to convert the accessory case to a dual
>> drive, but I doubt if the H engine allows that.
>> Gary Casey
>> > Time: 07:46:17 AM PST US
>> > From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
>> > Subject: Engines-List: lycoming dual mag D engine alternative mag
>> > question
>> >
>> > I got a D engine O-320 H2AD as part of a project, in good
>> > condition, already
>> > mounted so I want to keep it. It needs a mag rebuild. This is
>> > the "D" mag,
>> > dual drive, allegedly more failure prone because of a
>> common drive
>> > gear.
>> >
>> > 1. any recommendations on upgrades to the D mag while still
>> > keeping the D
>> > mag engine certified
>> >
>> > 2. any information/recommendations on using a "crank trigger"
>> > ignition as
>> > the source for firing the second set of plugs? from what I read
>> > in hot rod
>> > magazine these are old hat in big hp stressed engines, maybe a
>> > Megasquirt with
>> >
>> > 4 separate coils? This would avoid the single point failure of
>> > the drive
>> > gear, and would be fun to play with timing changes.
>> >
>> > I'll keep the carb for now.
>> >
>> > Is there an easy conversion to use a single regular mag
>> driven off the
>> > accessory case?
>> >
>> > While I am here, what is the latest information re roller cam
>> > followers for
>> > this engine, there is no T modification done to this engine.
>> >
>> > This is in an experimental so I could ....
>> >
>> > Thanks for any help, Skip Simpson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
In a message dated 1/19/2007 8:53:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jrccea@bellsouth.net writes:
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit the
bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio. The O-200 I'm
messing about with at the moment appears to be putting out something on the
loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1 compression), but I'd like to
try a stroker for the fun of it. I have friend who makes custom pistons, so
don't see that as a real bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily
a
driving factor. Who might I talk to about stroking a crank?
Talk to Moldex near Detroit, MI. I was not able to fine them on the web, but
a search for Moldex Crankshaft will give a lot of hits. I have found their
phone number before, but had to search some for it.
They make racing cranks. They can take your crank as a sample, and make a
stroker for you from a steel billet. You need to check for clearance to the cam
and case, of course.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
True. I suspect cam clearance might be more of a problem than case
clearance. And of course, the journal shoulder radii are different than
in automotive engines.
----- Original Message -----
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
You need to check for clearance to the cam and case, of course.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Archie -- stroked O-200? |
Fellows, you want to be very careful about stroking aircraft
crankshafts.
1. You will lose considerable Journal overlap. If you
don't know what this term means you definitely do not
need to play this game.
2. Most aircraft cranks are nitrided.
3. automotive crank grinders as a general rule, do not know about
nitriding ( some do ) and they will crack the crankshaft in the fillet
radii.
4. If the crank is not renitrided you lose about 15% of the
fatique strength which is likely already unknown to you.
5. If you keep the same rod bearing diameter the crank will have
to be built up with metal deposition of some type. In past history this
has not been satisfactory considering the bearing loads and duty cycles
of aircraft engines.
6. Crankshafts machined from billet are inferior in strength to
forged ones.
I have stroked some 540 Lyc. Cranks, 5 to be exact, 3 have failed at a
very early service life, less than 100 hrs, 1 is still here in the shop
and not for sale under any circumstances, and the remaining one is in an
airboat engine. Airboat is a whole different operating regime for more
than the obvious reason.
One of the failed stroked cranks was at full tilt boogie and the only
thing useable from the engine was the oil sump and the prop governor
drive. All the failed cranks have been in a rod journal fillet radius,
#5 and #6, as a rapid fatigue failure and was from bending loads. All
these cranks were ground at a well known crankshaft shop who shall go
unnamed, all were re-nitrided. In the 540 Lyc the pistons had to be
shortened under the pin bosses, piston skirts had to be shortened, the
rods had to be nipped so as not to hit the camshaft, and the cylinder
skirts had to be scalloped to clear the opposing rod cap.
Monty Barrett
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh@aol.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
In a message dated 1/19/2007 8:53:55 AM Eastern Standard Time,
jrccea@bellsouth.net writes:
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might
not fit the bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight
ratio. The O-200 I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be
putting out something on the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm
(9.5:1 compression), but I'd like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I
have friend who makes custom pistons, so don't see that as a real
bottleneck. Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily a driving factor.
Who might I talk to about stroking a crank?
Talk to Moldex near Detroit, MI. I was not able to fine them on the
web, but a search for Moldex Crankshaft will give a lot of hits. I have
found their phone number before, but had to search some for it.
They make racing cranks. They can take your crank as a sample, and make
a stroker for you from a steel billet. You need to check for clearance
to the cam and case, of course.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
Thanks, Monty. That was just the sort of background info I was looking
for. I do know what journal overlap is, and why it's important. But
other than that, I know just enough to readily express ignorance.
----- Original Message -----
From: Monty Barrett Sr
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
Fellows, you want to be very careful about stroking aircraft
crankshafts.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
I merely used the O-360 engine as a hypothetical example of costs.
Had two custom cranks made, because I did not want to reduce the rod
journal size on the two strokers, and similarly increased the fillet
radius.
I am constantly queried about how I was able to derive so much power
from that stock stroke engine.
First, and foremost, the most work was done from the intake, head, and
exhaust with many hours on a wet flow bench.
No details, except suffice it to say that port orientation was moved,
and reduced. I used smaller valves and seats,
Four into one exhausts, and intake runners that did not even resemble
the originals.
As this is essentially proprietary, that is all I will say for now,
other than the engine was designed to make max power at 5k alt or less.
Archie
----- Original Message -----
From: jrc
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
That's true, but in a very light weight plane, an O-360 might not fit
the bill as well as an O-200 due to the crappy power to weight ratio.
The O-200 I'm messing about with at the moment appears to be putting
out something on the loose order of 118 hp at about 2950 rpm (9.5:1
compression), but I'd like to try a stroker for the fun of it. I have
friend who makes custom pistons, so don't see that as a real bottleneck.
Nor is the cost-benefit ratio necessarily a driving factor. Who might
I talk to about stroking a crank?
----- Original Message -----
From: Archie
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
----- Original Message -----
From: jrc
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: Engines-List: Archie -- stroked O-200?
Archie, would it be possible to stroke an experimental O-200, and
if so, about how much?
JimC
Yes, but it requires custom pistons, and the overall cost would
not be worth it.
I did a special O-200 that produced 161hp at 2700. (stock stroke)
For what it cost to develop, the customer could have bought a
brand new
O-360 engine and then some.
Archie
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 |
Ok Archie, how did you increase the bhp from 100 to 161? If you
turbocharged it you should call it a TS0200.
Tim
Mobile, AL
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 |
That would be cheating. Both engines were normally aspirated.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Warlick
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 7:10 PM
Subject: Engines-List: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200
Ok Archie, how did you increase the bhp from 100 to 161? If you
turbocharged it you should call it a TS0200.
Tim
Mobile, AL
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200 |
He increased the compression, increased the intake velocity, reduced the
exhaust backpressure, and jacked the rpm way up.
JimC
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Warlick
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, January 19, 2007 6:10 PM
Subject: Engines-List: 161 hp @ 2700 rpm 0200
Ok Archie, how did you increase the bhp from 100 to 161? If you
turbocharged it you should call it a TS0200.
Tim
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Archie -- stroked O-200? |
Monty, if you wanted to increase the power output of an O-200 in the
2700-2800 rpm range (for durations of about 1 minute), with continuous
cruise rpm to be in the 2100-2300 rpm range, what modifications would
you consider feasible?
JimC
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