Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Grant Piper)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Archie)
3. 05:06 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys)
4. 05:48 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (jrc)
5. 06:13 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen)
6. 06:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen)
7. 06:20 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet)
8. 06:21 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet)
9. 07:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet)
10. 07:24 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
11. 07:50 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Mike)
12. 07:58 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Mike)
13. 08:53 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys)
14. 08:59 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Monty Barrett Sr)
15. 09:01 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys)
16. 09:11 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Terry Watson)
17. 09:29 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys)
18. 10:56 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Charlie England)
19. 01:48 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen)
20. 02:17 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (n801bh@netzero.com)
21. 03:20 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Archie)
22. 07:53 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Speedy11@aol.com)
23. 08:44 PM - Re: Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Electronic ignition is OK,but try hand-swinging when the battery is flat or
the starter is broken!
Also, if you get no 'mag drop' when running an EI setup, then what is the
benefit of dual EI? Why not just keep one mag and have one EI, then there
is no need for dual busses, the extra complexity and associated weight etc.
Just my simple farmer way of thinking of things....
Grant Piper
RV-4 VH-PIO
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
> Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> possibility.
>
> On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
>> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
>> than electronic ignition.
>> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
>> Archie Frangoudis
>> Archie's Racing Service
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Noel Loveys
>> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
>> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>>
>>
>> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
>> They
>> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
>> black
>> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes
>> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
>> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
>> anything
>> better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
with your statements..
I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
still be driving model "T"'s.
End.
Archie Frangoudis
Archie's Racing Service
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
> Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> possibility.
>
> On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
>> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
>> than electronic ignition.
>> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
>> Archie Frangoudis
>> Archie's Racing Service
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Noel Loveys
>> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
>> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>>
>>
>> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
>> They
>> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
>> black
>> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes
>> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
>> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
>> anything
>> better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
The answer from the FAA I'll bet would be something like try firing a
.018
plug with a CDI that has no power supply.
The best answer is of course one magneto and one CDI. That would give
you a
limp home mode in case of a problem with the CDI. BTW has anyone ever
heard
of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Archie
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
than electronic ignition.
Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
Archie Frangoudis
Archie's Racing Service
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel <mailto:noelloveys@yahoo.ca> Loveys
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
They
require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
black
in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand
yes
there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
anything
better.
Noel
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
MessageNo. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....
Was grateful for mags at the time.
I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that
might present a problem for CDI.
BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I
haven't.
Noel
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
buses and other backups.
On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
> with your statements..
> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
> still be driving model "T"'s.
> End.
> Archie Frangoudis
> Archie's Racing Service
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> >
> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> > possibility.
> >
> > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
> >> than electronic ignition.
> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Noel Loveys
> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >>
> >>
> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
> >> They
> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
> >> black
> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes
> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
> >> anything
> >> better.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Noel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me
stranded. Something inside the box fried.
On 2/19/07, Noel Loveys <noelloveys@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
> The answer from the FAA I'll bet would be something like try firing a .018
> plug with a CDI that has no power supply.
>
> The best answer is of course one magneto and one CDI. That would give you a
> limp home mode in case of a problem with the CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard
> of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't.
>
> Noel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
> Of Archie
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:05 PM
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
> than electronic ignition.
> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
> Archie Frangoudis
> Archie's Racing Service
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Noel Loveys
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. They
> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go black
> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes
> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is anything
> better.
>
>
> Noel
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
> http://www.pctools.com/anti-v
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
I had one mag and one CDI once and it worked OK. But that means keeping
those inferior aircraft plugs clean and replacing at ~$20 each. WHY? My auto
plugs cost $2.50 each and are replaced every 75 hours or so. Never gap the
plugs; why bother at those prices. Also, the power is somewhat better with
two CDI according to Klaus Savior of LSE. I cannot confirm that.
For those that have never sat behind a Lycoming running CDI's, if you do get
a chance someday, ask the owner for a ride. The smoothness of the engine
will surprise you.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Grant Piper" <grant.piper@bigpond.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> <grant.piper@bigpond.com>
>
> Electronic ignition is OK,but try hand-swinging when the battery is flat
> or the starter is broken!
>
> Also, if you get no 'mag drop' when running an EI setup, then what is the
> benefit of dual EI? Why not just keep one mag and have one EI, then
> there is no need for dual busses, the extra complexity and associated
> weight etc. Just my simple farmer way of thinking of things....
>
> Grant Piper
> RV-4 VH-PIO
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
>>
>> Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
>> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
>> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
>> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
>> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
>> nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
>> and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
>> pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
>> possibility.
>>
>> On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
>>> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
>>> than electronic ignition.
>>> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
>>> Archie Frangoudis
>>> Archie's Racing Service
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Noel Loveys
>>> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
>>> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>>>
>>>
>>> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
>>> They
>>> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
>>> black
>>> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand
>>> yes
>>> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
>>> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
>>> anything
>>> better.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Noel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
See my previous post.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
> Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> possibility.
>
> On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
>> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
>> than electronic ignition.
>> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason)
>> Archie Frangoudis
>> Archie's Racing Service
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Noel Loveys
>> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
>> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>>
>>
>> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
>> They
>> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
>> black
>> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes
>> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than
>> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
>> anything
>> better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Noel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First, cars 35 years ago
were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have electronic ignition
systems; i.e. CDI's.
Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my MustangII were from
wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting the B-wire or the
field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying "store bought"
airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a
complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my plane, I would
still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the backup battery.
BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart after only 24 hours
in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag said, "That
happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!!
Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
> Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
> failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
> powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
> the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
> total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
> tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
> curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
> an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
> is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
> buses and other backups.
>
> On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
>> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
>> with your statements..
>> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
>> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
>> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
>> still be driving model "T"'s.
>> End.
>> Archie Frangoudis
>> Archie's Racing Service
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>>
>>
>> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
>> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
>> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
>> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
>> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
>> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
>> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
>> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
>> > possibility.
>> >
>> > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
>> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
>> >> than electronic ignition.
>> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one
>> >> reason)
>> >> Archie Frangoudis
>> >> Archie's Racing Service
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: Noel Loveys
>> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
>> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
>> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
>> >> They
>> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
>> >> black
>> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand
>> >> yes
>> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better
>> >> than
>> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
>> >> anything
>> >> better.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Noel
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
You will find that very few production cars today have Capacitor Discharge
Ignition systems. Most systems are still inductive discharge switched by a
transistor. (Transistors come in several forms including Bipolar, FET and IGBT.)
This system is much simpler and more reliable than a CDI system. CDI systems
are used for competition engines, though.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
15 years associated with ignition design for GM including Indy CDI systems.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
So what should I do with my Airbus 320? It needs electric to run as do
all the new fadec powered jet engine systems. They hide this by
providing internal generators, kind of sound a little like the magneto
concept. But it's not!
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
buses and other backups.
On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
> with your statements..
> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
> still be driving model "T"'s.
> End.
> Archie Frangoudis
> Archie's Racing Service
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
<apilot2@gmail.com>
> >
> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a
plane.
> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> > possibility.
> >
> > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion
engine
> >> than electronic ignition.
> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one
reason)
> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Noel Loveys
> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >>
> >>
> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying
aircraft.
> >> They
> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't
go
> >> black
> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other
hand yes
> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better
than
> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
> >> anything
> >> better.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Noel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
2/8/2007
--
2/8/2007
Message 12
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
Well, that's why airplanes have TWO ignition systems.... If you fly
long enough you too will have a mag. failure. I have had more than 12
mags. fail, fortunately not at the same time.
Mike
Lancair Legacy w/dual LSE Plasma III ignitions and dual independent
buses "boy it's smooth; I know it will be smoother when they quit. Ant
the fuel specifics are good too."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me
stranded. Something inside the box fried.
--
2/8/2007
Message 13
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me.
What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibly
using different plugs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....
Was grateful for mags at the time.
I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might
present a problem for CDI.
BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I
haven't.
Noel
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of
the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they
are not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber.
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Loveys
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me.
What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto?
Possibly using different plugs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....
Was grateful for mags at the time.
I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think
that might present a problem for CDI.
BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while
in use??? I haven't.
Noel
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro
n
ics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
The more I read the more I think there is a case for the single mag and a
single CDI. Two different technologies, two different weaknesses but when
combined they could offer more protection from an engine out.
One thing is for certain in the very near future there will be a big push on
to clean up GA engines. Whether you start installing at least one CDI with
variable timing or junk the whole lot and switch to Diesel only the future
will tell. Be prepared for big changes!
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Wayne Sweet
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:43 AM
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> <w_sweet@comcast.net>
>
> You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First,
> cars 35 years ago
> were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have
> electronic ignition
> systems; i.e. CDI's.
> Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my
> MustangII were from
> wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting
> the B-wire or the
> field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying
> "store bought"
> airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a
> complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my
> plane, I would
> still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the
> backup battery.
> BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart
> after only 24 hours
> in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag
> said, "That
> happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!!
> Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today.
> Wayne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >
> > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
> > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
> > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
> > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
> > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
> > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair,
> Subaru...all niche
> > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
> > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
> > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
> > buses and other backups.
> >
> > On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >>
> >> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
> >> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
> >> with your statements..
> >> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
> >> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
> >> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
> >> still be driving model "T"'s.
> >> End.
> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >>
> >>
> >> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> >> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> >> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not
> okay in a plane.
> >> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> >> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> >> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue
> with aircraft,
> >> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more
> reliable than a
> >> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a
> reasonable
> >> > possibility.
> >> >
> >> > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> >> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal
> combustion engine
> >> >> than electronic ignition.
> >> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current
> magneto.(just one
> >> >> reason)
> >> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: Noel Loveys
> >> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> >> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger
> carrying aircraft.
> >> >> They
> >> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition
> systems that won't go
> >> >> black
> >> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On
> the other hand
> >> >> yes
> >> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the
> engines run better
> >> >> than
> >> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I
> doubt there is
> >> >> anything
> >> >> better.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Noel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
> http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
I am surprised no one has yet mentioned E-mags in this thread.
http://www.emagair.com/Intro.htm
I have no experience with them but the reports of their product and service
have been excellent. In essence it is an electronic ignition that is a
bolt-on replacement for a mag. One model requires outside power, but the
other has its own built-in electrical source.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:58 AM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
Well, that's why airplanes have TWO ignition systems.... If you fly
long enough you too will have a mag. failure. I have had more than 12
mags. fail, fortunately not at the same time.
Mike
Lancair Legacy w/dual LSE Plasma III ignitions and dual independent
buses "boy it's smooth; I know it will be smoother when they quit. Ant
the fuel specifics are good too."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:15 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me
stranded. Something inside the box fried.
--
2/8/2007
Message 17
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
They also have more than one generator. More than one engine. %They can
sustain flight on one engine. If they have a massive electrical failure in
flight the engines won't just stop and become huge anchors. If the lights
in the cockpit wouldn't tell the crew they wouldn't even know about the
power loss.
Noel
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:20 PM
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
>
> So what should I do with my Airbus 320? It needs electric to
> run as do
> all the new fadec powered jet engine systems. They hide this by
> providing internal generators, kind of sound a little like the magneto
> concept. But it's not!
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
> McMullen
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:13 AM
> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
> <apilot2@gmail.com>
>
> Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
> failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
> powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
> the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
> total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
> tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
> curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
> an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
> is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
> buses and other backups.
>
> On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <archie97@earthlink.net>
> >
> > With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
> > some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
> > with your statements..
> > I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
> > but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
> > If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
> > still be driving model "T"'s.
> > End.
> > Archie Frangoudis
> > Archie's Racing Service
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >
> >
> <apilot2@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> > > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> > > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a
> plane.
> > > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> > > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> > > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue
> with aircraft,
> > > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more
> reliable than a
> > > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> > > possibility.
> > >
> > > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> > >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion
> engine
> > >> than electronic ignition.
> > >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one
> reason)
> > >> Archie Frangoudis
> > >> Archie's Racing Service
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: Noel Loveys
> > >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> > >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying
> aircraft.
> > >> They
> > >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems
> that won't
> go
> > >> black
> > >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other
> hand yes
> > >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines
> run better
> than
> > >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I
> doubt there is
> > >> anything
> > >> better.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Noel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> 2/8/2007
>
>
> --
> 2/8/2007
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
> http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/
>
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
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Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
> failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
> powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
> the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
> total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
> tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
> curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
> an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
> is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
> buses and other backups.
For those who don't know yet and are trying to learn:
Mags fail.
Mags fail with some frequency.
There's typically only one carb or injection controller, but there are
almost always 2 mags. It ain't just about better combustion.
If standalone ignition floats your boat, google 'p-mag' & 'e-mag' to
come close to the 'ideal'.
Charlie
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
No, no confusion. Also had later factory electronic ignition leave me
stranded at -40. They have several points of failure. Can't tell you
how many engine management CPUs get changed out regularly. Alternators
are no more reliable than they ever were. All fine for cars. Not so
fine for aviation. A mag failure shortly after overhaul indicates a
shop that is incompetent. I have yet to have a mag actually fail in 35
years of flying. Had P-lead short a mag to ground, but no mag failure.
You are welcome to go complex electronics. Your choice. That is what
experimental is all about.
On 2/19/07, Wayne Sweet <w_sweet@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First, cars 35 years ago
> were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have electronic ignition
> systems; i.e. CDI's.
> Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my MustangII were from
> wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting the B-wire or the
> field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying "store bought"
> airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a
> complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my plane, I would
> still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the backup battery.
> BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart after only 24 hours
> in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag said, "That
> happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!!
> Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today.
> Wayne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
>
>
> >
> > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it
> > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self
> > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far,
> > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum
> > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have
> > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche
> > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't
> > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that
> > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual
> > buses and other backups.
> >
> > On 2/19/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew
> >> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur
> >> with your statements..
> >> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such,
> >> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully.
> >> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all
> >> still be driving model "T"'s.
> >> End.
> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >> To: <engines-list@matronics.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >>
> >>
> >> > <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >> >
> >> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic
> >> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> >> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> >> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> >> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has
> >> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft,
> >> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a
> >> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable
> >> > possibility.
> >> >
> >> > On 2/18/07, Archie <archie97@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA,
> >> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine
> >> >> than electronic ignition.
> >> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one
> >> >> reason)
> >> >> Archie Frangoudis
> >> >> Archie's Racing Service
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: Noel Loveys
> >> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com
> >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM
> >> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft.
> >> >> They
> >> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go
> >> >> black
> >> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand
> >> >> yes
> >> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better
> >> >> than
> >> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is
> >> >> anything
> >> >> better.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Noel
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Engine Running Rough |
I run the exact set up as NASCAR runs in their cars. Dual 6AL MSD boxes,
custom Mallory dual pick up distributor, dual coils, Ign # 1 is wired
to the main buss. Ign # 2 gets its power straight from the positive post
of the Optima Red top gel cell battery. When the DAR inspected my plane
he wanted to know the redundancy of the ignition system. Once I explain
ed the concept and told him my battery had the capacity of running the i
gn for 6+ hours he said and I quote " Well, I guess after you land and r
efuel twice and still keep flying with a bad alternator you should quali
fy for the Darwin award". The thing is bulletproof and in all the years
of NASCAR there has never been a complete failure of both systems at one
time. And those boys can really give it the torture test. <G> There ar
e some pics on my website of my ignition system installed in the beast.
Look for the red boxes and coils on the top right engine side of the fir
ewall. Of course this rant is directed at the experimental guys, you cer
tified guys are stuck with 70 year old technology.......................
.
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Monty Barrett Sr" <MONTY@bpaengines.com> wrote:
NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of
the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they a
re not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber.
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me.
What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibl
y using different plugs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list
-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....
Was grateful for mags at the time.
I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that mig
ht present a problem for CDI.
BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I hav
en't.
Noel
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h
ttp://forums.matronics.com
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
http://www.pctools.com/anti-v
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========================
========================
========================
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=
<html><P>I run the exact set up as NASCAR runs in their cars. Dual 6AL M
SD boxes, custom Mallory dual pick up distributor, dual coils, Ign
# 1 is wired to the main buss. Ign # 2 gets its power straight from the
positive post of the Optima Red top gel cell battery. When the DAR insp
ected my plane he wanted to know the redundancy of the ignition system.&
nbsp;Once I explained the concept and told him my battery had the capaci
ty of running the ign for 6+ hours he said and I quote " Well, I guess a
fter you land and refuel twice and still keep flying with a bad alt
ernator you should qualify for the Darwin award". The thi
ng is bulletproof and in all the years of NASCAR there has never been a
complete failure of both systems at one time. And those boys can really
give it the torture test. <G> There are some pics on my webs
ite of my ignition system installed in the beast. Look for the red boxes
and coils on the top right engine side of the firewall. Of course
this rant is directed at the experimental guys, you certified guys are s
tuck with 70 year old technology........................</P>
<P>do not archive<BR><BR><BR>Ben Haas<BR>N801BH<BR>www.haaspowerair
.com<BR><BR>-- "Monty Barrett Sr" <MONTY@bpaengin
es.com> wrote:<BR></P>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">NASCAR runs some
type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of the TV shots
. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they are
not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Monty Barrett</SP
AN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN styl
e="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> </SPAN></FO
NT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma si
ze=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Origina
l Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>
owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-serve
r@matronics.com] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPA
N></B>Noel Loveys<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></
B> Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT:
bold">To:</SPAN></B> engines-list@matronics.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FON
T-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rou
gh</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></
P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">That would qualify a
s a problem with a CDI in use for me.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></
P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">What would you think
of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibly using differe
nt plugs.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></
P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times Ne
w Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></
P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Noel</SPAN></FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORD
ER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt
0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDE
R-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; M
ARGIN-RIGHT: 0in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE:
10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style
="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> owner-engines-list-server@matron
ics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] <B><SPAN style=
"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>jrc<BR><B><SPAN style="FON
T-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM<BR><
B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> engines-list@matronic
s.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: En
gines-List: Engine Running Rough</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial siz
e=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No. But,
I've had total power failures on two occasions.....</SPAN></FONT></P></
DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial siz
e=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Was grateful f
or mags at the time.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial siz
e=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I also fly a n
on-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a p
roblem for CDI.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORD
ER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt
0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDE
R-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Arial siz
e=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">BTW has anyo
ne ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't.</
SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4>
<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt">Noel</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><PR
E style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><B><FONT face="Courier New" color=bla
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
MessageThere is an interior switch that will run one or the other. (just
in case)
----- Original Message -----
From: Monty Barrett Sr
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some
of the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know
they are not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber.
Monty Barrett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel
Loveys
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me.
What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto?
Possibly using different plugs.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough
No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....
Was grateful for mags at the time.
I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that
might present a problem for CDI.
BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use???
I haven't.
Noel
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:
//forums.matronics.com
Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
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Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Kelly,
No wholly true.
P Mags (emagair.com) is an electronic ignition that has its own internal
generator such that should the electrics fail, it can continue running at speeds
above idle (about 700 rpm) therefore performing essentially like a mag. When
power is available, it enjoys the advantages of electronic ignition.
Stan Sutterfield
There isn't an electronic
ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Running Rough |
Yes, I was aware of PMag and it probably is as good an alternative as
you can get for a 4 cyl engine. However, it isn't available for a 6
cylinder yet, and:
"Even the P-MAG model needs some source of outside power at start-up.
If you are prop starting because the battery is "low", there is plenty
of power for the ignition. If you're battery is "almost" dead (you
only get a faint glow from the cabin light) you probably have enough
power for the ignition. However if you're battery is removed or is
absolutely/totally dead, you cannot prop start with the electronic
ignition and "no" outside power. "
On 2/19/07, Speedy11@aol.com <Speedy11@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> Kelly,
> No wholly true.
> P Mags (emagair.com) is an electronic ignition that has its own internal
> generator such that should the electrics fail, it can continue running at
> speeds above idle (about 700 rpm) therefore performing essentially like a
> mag. When power is available, it enjoys the advantages of electronic
> ignition.
> Stan Sutterfield
>
> There isn't an electronic
> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your
> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane.
> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for
> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle.
>
>
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