---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/19/07: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Grant Piper) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Archie) 3. 05:06 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys) 4. 05:48 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (jrc) 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen) 6. 06:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen) 7. 06:20 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet) 8. 06:21 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet) 9. 07:14 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Wayne Sweet) 10. 07:24 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 11. 07:50 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Mike) 12. 07:58 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Mike) 13. 08:53 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys) 14. 08:59 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Monty Barrett Sr) 15. 09:01 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys) 16. 09:11 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Terry Watson) 17. 09:29 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Noel Loveys) 18. 10:56 AM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Charlie England) 19. 01:48 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen) 20. 02:17 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (n801bh@netzero.com) 21. 03:20 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Archie) 22. 07:53 PM - Re: Engine Running Rough (Speedy11@aol.com) 23. 08:44 PM - Re: Re: Engine Running Rough (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:13 AM PST US From: "Grant Piper" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Electronic ignition is OK,but try hand-swinging when the battery is flat or the starter is broken! Also, if you get no 'mag drop' when running an EI setup, then what is the benefit of dual EI? Why not just keep one mag and have one EI, then there is no need for dual busses, the extra complexity and associated weight etc. Just my simple farmer way of thinking of things.... Grant Piper RV-4 VH-PIO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > possibility. > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: >> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine >> than electronic ignition. >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) >> Archie Frangoudis >> Archie's Racing Service >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Noel Loveys >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. >> They >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go >> black >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is >> anything >> better. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:41 AM PST US From: "Archie" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur with your statements.. I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all still be driving model "T"'s. End. Archie Frangoudis Archie's Racing Service ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > possibility. > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: >> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine >> than electronic ignition. >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) >> Archie Frangoudis >> Archie's Racing Service >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Noel Loveys >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. >> They >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go >> black >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is >> anything >> better. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:55 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough The answer from the FAA I'll bet would be something like try firing a .018 plug with a CDI that has no power supply. The best answer is of course one magneto and one CDI. That would give you a limp home mode in case of a problem with the CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Archie Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:05 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine than electronic ignition. Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) Archie Frangoudis Archie's Racing Service ----- Original Message ----- From: Noel Loveys Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. They require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go black in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is anything better. Noel Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:44 AM PST US From: "jrc" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough MessageNo. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions..... Was grateful for mags at the time. I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a problem for CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. Noel ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:49 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual buses and other backups. On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: > > With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew > some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur > with your statements.. > I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, > but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. > If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all > still be driving model "T"'s. > End. > Archie Frangoudis > Archie's Racing Service > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > > possibility. > > > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: > >> > >> > >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine > >> than electronic ignition. > >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) > >> Archie Frangoudis > >> Archie's Racing Service > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Noel Loveys > >> To: engines-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> > >> > >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. > >> They > >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go > >> black > >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes > >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than > >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is > >> anything > >> better. > >> > >> > >> > >> Noel > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:57 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me stranded. Something inside the box fried. On 2/19/07, Noel Loveys wrote: > > > The answer from the FAA I'll bet would be something like try firing a .018 > plug with a CDI that has no power supply. > > The best answer is of course one magneto and one CDI. That would give you a > limp home mode in case of a problem with the CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard > of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. > > Noel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Archie > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:05 PM > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine > than electronic ignition. > Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) > Archie Frangoudis > Archie's Racing Service > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Noel Loveys > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. They > require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go black > in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes > there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than > they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is anything > better. > > > Noel > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). > http://www.pctools.com/anti-v > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:35 AM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough I had one mag and one CDI once and it worked OK. But that means keeping those inferior aircraft plugs clean and replacing at ~$20 each. WHY? My auto plugs cost $2.50 each and are replaced every 75 hours or so. Never gap the plugs; why bother at those prices. Also, the power is somewhat better with two CDI according to Klaus Savior of LSE. I cannot confirm that. For those that have never sat behind a Lycoming running CDI's, if you do get a chance someday, ask the owner for a ride. The smoothness of the engine will surprise you. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Grant Piper" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:13 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > Electronic ignition is OK,but try hand-swinging when the battery is flat > or the starter is broken! > > Also, if you get no 'mag drop' when running an EI setup, then what is the > benefit of dual EI? Why not just keep one mag and have one EI, then > there is no need for dual busses, the extra complexity and associated > weight etc. Just my simple farmer way of thinking of things.... > > Grant Piper > RV-4 VH-PIO > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:49 PM > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > >> >> Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic >> ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your >> electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. >> A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for >> aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has >> nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, >> and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a >> pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable >> possibility. >> >> On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: >>> >>> >>> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, >>> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine >>> than electronic ignition. >>> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) >>> Archie Frangoudis >>> Archie's Racing Service >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: Noel Loveys >>> To: engines-list@matronics.com >>> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM >>> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >>> >>> >>> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. >>> They >>> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go >>> black >>> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand >>> yes >>> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than >>> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is >>> anything >>> better. >>> >>> >>> >>> Noel >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:31 AM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough See my previous post. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > possibility. > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: >> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine >> than electronic ignition. >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) >> Archie Frangoudis >> Archie's Racing Service >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Noel Loveys >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. >> They >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go >> black >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is >> anything >> better. >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:14:22 AM PST US From: "Wayne Sweet" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First, cars 35 years ago were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have electronic ignition systems; i.e. CDI's. Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my MustangII were from wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting the B-wire or the field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying "store bought" airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my plane, I would still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the backup battery. BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart after only 24 hours in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag said, "That happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!! Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kelly McMullen" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual > buses and other backups. > > On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: >> >> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew >> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur >> with your statements.. >> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, >> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. >> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all >> still be driving model "T"'s. >> End. >> Archie Frangoudis >> Archie's Racing Service >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Kelly McMullen" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM >> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >> >> >> > >> > >> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic >> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your >> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. >> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for >> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has >> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, >> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a >> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable >> > possibility. >> > >> > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, >> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine >> >> than electronic ignition. >> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one >> >> reason) >> >> Archie Frangoudis >> >> Archie's Racing Service >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> From: Noel Loveys >> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM >> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough >> >> >> >> >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. >> >> They >> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go >> >> black >> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand >> >> yes >> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better >> >> than >> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is >> >> anything >> >> better. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Noel >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:59 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough You will find that very few production cars today have Capacitor Discharge Ignition systems. Most systems are still inductive discharge switched by a transistor. (Transistors come in several forms including Bipolar, FET and IGBT.) This system is much simpler and more reliable than a CDI system. CDI systems are used for competition engines, though. Dan Hopper RV-7A 15 years associated with ignition design for GM including Indy CDI systems. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:28 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough So what should I do with my Airbus 320? It needs electric to run as do all the new fadec powered jet engine systems. They hide this by providing internal generators, kind of sound a little like the magneto concept. But it's not! Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:13 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual buses and other backups. On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: > > With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew > some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur > with your statements.. > I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, > but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. > If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all > still be driving model "T"'s. > End. > Archie Frangoudis > Archie's Racing Service > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > > possibility. > > > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: > >> > >> > >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine > >> than electronic ignition. > >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one reason) > >> Archie Frangoudis > >> Archie's Racing Service > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Noel Loveys > >> To: engines-list@matronics.com > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> > >> > >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. > >> They > >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go > >> black > >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand yes > >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better than > >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is > >> anything > >> better. > >> > >> > >> > >> Noel > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- 2/8/2007 -- 2/8/2007 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:47 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Well, that's why airplanes have TWO ignition systems.... If you fly long enough you too will have a mag. failure. I have had more than 12 mags. fail, fortunately not at the same time. Mike Lancair Legacy w/dual LSE Plasma III ignitions and dual independent buses "boy it's smooth; I know it will be smoother when they quit. Ant the fuel specifics are good too." -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me stranded. Something inside the box fried. -- 2/8/2007 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:22 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me. What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibly using different plugs. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions..... Was grateful for mags at the time. I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a problem for CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. Noel Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough From: "Monty Barrett Sr" NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they are not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber. Monty Barrett -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me. What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibly using different plugs. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM To: engines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions..... Was grateful for mags at the time. I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a problem for CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. Noel href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro n ics.com/Navigator?Engines-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-v http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:10 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough The more I read the more I think there is a case for the single mag and a single CDI. Two different technologies, two different weaknesses but when combined they could offer more protection from an engine out. One thing is for certain in the very near future there will be a big push on to clean up GA engines. Whether you start installing at least one CDI with variable timing or junk the whole lot and switch to Diesel only the future will tell. Be prepared for big changes! Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Wayne Sweet > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 11:43 AM > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First, > cars 35 years ago > were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have > electronic ignition > systems; i.e. CDI's. > Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my > MustangII were from > wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting > the B-wire or the > field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying > "store bought" > airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a > complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my > plane, I would > still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the > backup battery. > BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart > after only 24 hours > in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag > said, "That > happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!! > Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today. > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > > > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it > > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self > > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, > > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum > > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have > > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, > Subaru...all niche > > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't > > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that > > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual > > buses and other backups. > > > > On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: > > >> > >> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew > >> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur > >> with your statements.. > >> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, > >> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. > >> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all > >> still be driving model "T"'s. > >> End. > >> Archie Frangoudis > >> Archie's Racing Service > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kelly McMullen" > >> To: > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM > >> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > >> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > >> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not > okay in a plane. > >> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > >> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > >> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue > with aircraft, > >> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more > reliable than a > >> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a > reasonable > >> > possibility. > >> > > >> > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > >> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal > combustion engine > >> >> than electronic ignition. > >> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current > magneto.(just one > >> >> reason) > >> >> Archie Frangoudis > >> >> Archie's Racing Service > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Noel Loveys > >> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > >> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger > carrying aircraft. > >> >> They > >> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition > systems that won't go > >> >> black > >> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On > the other hand > >> >> yes > >> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the > engines run better > >> >> than > >> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I > doubt there is > >> >> anything > >> >> better. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Noel > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). > http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:32 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough I am surprised no one has yet mentioned E-mags in this thread. http://www.emagair.com/Intro.htm I have no experience with them but the reports of their product and service have been excellent. In essence it is an electronic ignition that is a bolt-on replacement for a mag. One model requires outside power, but the other has its own built-in electrical source. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:58 AM Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Well, that's why airplanes have TWO ignition systems.... If you fly long enough you too will have a mag. failure. I have had more than 12 mags. fail, fortunately not at the same time. Mike Lancair Legacy w/dual LSE Plasma III ignitions and dual independent buses "boy it's smooth; I know it will be smoother when they quit. Ant the fuel specifics are good too." -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Yes. I had one on my car years ago. It flat failed and left me stranded. Something inside the box fried. -- 2/8/2007 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:19 AM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough They also have more than one generator. More than one engine. %They can sustain flight on one engine. If they have a massive electrical failure in flight the engines won't just stop and become huge anchors. If the lights in the cockpit wouldn't tell the crew they wouldn't even know about the power loss. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:20 PM > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > So what should I do with my Airbus 320? It needs electric to > run as do > all the new fadec powered jet engine systems. They hide this by > providing internal generators, kind of sound a little like the magneto > concept. But it's not! > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly > McMullen > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:13 AM > To: engines-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual > buses and other backups. > > On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: > > > > > With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew > > some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur > > with your statements.. > > I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, > > but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. > > If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all > > still be driving model "T"'s. > > End. > > Archie Frangoudis > > Archie's Racing Service > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kelly McMullen" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM > > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > > > > > > > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > > > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > > > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a > plane. > > > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > > > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > > > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue > with aircraft, > > > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more > reliable than a > > > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > > > possibility. > > > > > > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > > >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion > engine > > >> than electronic ignition. > > >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one > reason) > > >> Archie Frangoudis > > >> Archie's Racing Service > > >> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: Noel Loveys > > >> To: engines-list@matronics.com > > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > > >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > >> > > >> > > >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying > aircraft. > > >> They > > >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems > that won't > go > > >> black > > >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other > hand yes > > >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines > run better > than > > >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I > doubt there is > > >> anything > > >> better. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Noel > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > 2/8/2007 > > > -- > 2/8/2007 > > > > > > > > > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). > http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ > Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-virus/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:56:51 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough Kelly McMullen wrote: > > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual > buses and other backups. For those who don't know yet and are trying to learn: Mags fail. Mags fail with some frequency. There's typically only one carb or injection controller, but there are almost always 2 mags. It ain't just about better combustion. If standalone ignition floats your boat, google 'p-mag' & 'e-mag' to come close to the 'ideal'. Charlie ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:40 PM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough No, no confusion. Also had later factory electronic ignition leave me stranded at -40. They have several points of failure. Can't tell you how many engine management CPUs get changed out regularly. Alternators are no more reliable than they ever were. All fine for cars. Not so fine for aviation. A mag failure shortly after overhaul indicates a shop that is incompetent. I have yet to have a mag actually fail in 35 years of flying. Had P-lead short a mag to ground, but no mag failure. You are welcome to go complex electronics. Your choice. That is what experimental is all about. On 2/19/07, Wayne Sweet wrote: > > You are confusing CDI's of today with 35 years ago. First, cars 35 years ago > were junk compared to cars of today. All cars today have electronic ignition > systems; i.e. CDI's. > Also the only failures I have had with alternators in my MustangII were from > wire terminal failures, partly my fault for not supporting the B-wire or the > field wire close the terminal. In 6000 hours of flying "store bought" > airplanes only had one failure (at night in a Cardinal) that cause a > complete electrical failure. If that were to happen in my plane, I would > still be flying 2 hours after the failure because of the backup battery. > BTW, I had a mag go south because of points coming apart after only 24 hours > in service; the maintenance facility that overhauled the mag said, "That > happens sometimes". WHAT!!! REALLY!!!! > Lessons learned 35 years ago no longer apply today. > Wayne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kelly McMullen" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:13 AM > Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > > > > > > Yeah, right. I was using CD ignition on a car 35 years ago(and it > > failed within 2 years). Show me an electronic ignition that is self > > powered and stone reliable and I'll come over to your side. So far, > > the automotive technology that has proven superior for aircraft, sum > > total, will fit in a C-150. Porsche tried and failed. Dozens have > > tried the aluminum Chevy, and failed. VW, Corvair, Subaru...all niche > > curiosities that haven't made it to mainstream. Face it. There isn't > > an electronic ignition that passes the dead battery test. Until that > > is possible, you are just bandaiding around the problem with dual > > buses and other backups. > > > > On 2/19/07, Archie wrote: > >> > >> With all due respect to your commentary, sir, I knew > >> some replies would come from traditionalists, and I concur > >> with your statements.. > >> I will not deal with the semantics associated with such, > >> but suffice it to simply say read my original message carefully. > >> If people did not forward think in automotive, we would all > >> still be driving model "T"'s. > >> End. > >> Archie Frangoudis > >> Archie's Racing Service > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Kelly McMullen" > >> To: > >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 11:49 PM > >> Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> > >> > >> > > >> > > >> > Depends on your definition of better. There isn't an electronic > >> > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > >> > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > >> > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > >> > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. Bureaucracy has > >> > nothing to do with it. Reliability is the prime issue with aircraft, > >> > and there simply isn't an ignition made that is more reliable than a > >> > pair of magnetos when you consider electrical failure a reasonable > >> > possibility. > >> > > >> > On 2/18/07, Archie wrote: > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Without bursting bubbles. or offending the beaurocratic FAA, > >> >> there is nothing better currently for any internal combustion engine > >> >> than electronic ignition. > >> >> Just try firing a .080 gap plug with a current magneto.(just one > >> >> reason) > >> >> Archie Frangoudis > >> >> Archie's Racing Service > >> >> > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> >> From: Noel Loveys > >> >> To: engines-list@matronics.com > >> >> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:47 AM > >> >> Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> The reasons are laid out, basically for passenger carrying aircraft. > >> >> They > >> >> require redundancy and separate powered ignition systems that won't go > >> >> black > >> >> in the event of a catastrophic electrical problem. On the other hand > >> >> yes > >> >> there are some great CDI ignitions that help the engines run better > >> >> than > >> >> they were designed to. For amateur built aircraft I doubt there is > >> >> anything > >> >> better. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Noel > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:46 PM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough I run the exact set up as NASCAR runs in their cars. Dual 6AL MSD boxes, custom Mallory dual pick up distributor, dual coils, Ign # 1 is wired to the main buss. Ign # 2 gets its power straight from the positive post of the Optima Red top gel cell battery. When the DAR inspected my plane he wanted to know the redundancy of the ignition system. Once I explain ed the concept and told him my battery had the capacity of running the i gn for 6+ hours he said and I quote " Well, I guess after you land and r efuel twice and still keep flying with a bad alternator you should quali fy for the Darwin award". The thing is bulletproof and in all the years of NASCAR there has never been a complete failure of both systems at one time. And those boys can really give it the torture test. There ar e some pics on my website of my ignition system installed in the beast. Look for the red boxes and coils on the top right engine side of the fir ewall. Of course this rant is directed at the experimental guys, you cer tified guys are stuck with 70 year old technology....................... .. do not archive Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com -- "Monty Barrett Sr" wrote: NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they a re not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber. Monty Barrett -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me. What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibl y using different plugs. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list -server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions..... Was grateful for mags at the time. I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that mig ht present a problem for CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I hav en't. Noel href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.com Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-v http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhttp://forums.matronics ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =

I run the exact set up as NASCAR runs in their cars. Dual 6AL M SD boxes, custom Mallory dual pick up distributor, dual coils,  Ign # 1 is wired to the main buss. Ign # 2 gets its power straight from the positive post of the Optima Red top gel cell battery. When the DAR insp ected my plane he wanted to know the redundancy of the ignition system.& nbsp;Once I explained the concept and told him my battery had the capaci ty of running the ign for 6+ hours he said and I quote " Well, I guess a fter you land and refuel twice and still keep flying with a bad alt ernator you should qualify for the Darwin award". The thi ng is bulletproof and in all the years of NASCAR there has never been a complete failure of both systems at one time. And those boys can really give it the torture test. <G>  There are some pics on my webs ite of my ignition system installed in the beast. Look for the red boxes and coils on the top right engine side of the firewall. Of course this rant is directed at the experimental guys, you certified guys are s tuck with 70 year old technology........................

do not archive


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair .com

-- "Monty Barrett Sr" <MONTY@bpaengin es.com> wrote:

NASCAR runs some type of EI.  I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of the TV shots .  Do you reckon there is a reason for that ?  I know they are not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber.

Monty Barrett

 

-----Origina l Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-serve r@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rou gh

 

That would qualify a s a problem with a CDI in use for me.

 

What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto?  Possibly using differe nt plugs.

 

 

Noel

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matron ics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM
< B>To: engines-list@matronic s.com
Subject: Re: En gines-List: Engine Running Rough

No.  But, I've had total power failures on two occasions.....

Was grateful f or mags at the time.

I also fly a n on-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a p roblem for CDI.

BTW has anyo ne ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use???  I haven't.

Noel

 

 
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http
://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
 



Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014).
http://www.pctools.com/anti-v

&n bsp;

 








<
B>

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?
Engines-List
http://forums.matronics.com


 


========================
===========
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
========================
===========
tronics.com
========================
===========
________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:08 PM PST US From: "Archie" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough MessageThere is an interior switch that will run one or the other. (just in case) ----- Original Message ----- From: Monty Barrett Sr To: engines-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:03 PM Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough NASCAR runs some type of EI. I have noticed 2 ea. MSD units in some of the TV shots. Do you reckon there is a reason for that ? I know they are not using 2 sparkplugs per chamber. Monty Barrett -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel Loveys Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:53 AM To: engines-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough That would qualify as a problem with a CDI in use for me. What would you think of having one CDI and one back up magneto? Possibly using different plugs. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jrc Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 10:18 AM To: engines-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Engines-List: Engine Running Rough No. But, I've had total power failures on two occasions..... Was grateful for mags at the time. I also fly a non-electric cub a good bit of the time, and think that might present a problem for CDI. BTW has anyone ever heard of a problem with a CDI while in use??? I haven't. Noel href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http: //forums.matronics.com Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (3.1.0.10 - 9.061.014). http://www.pctools.com/anti-v http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-Listhttp://forums.matronics.co m ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:32 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engine Running Rough Kelly, No wholly true. P Mags (emagair.com) is an electronic ignition that has its own internal generator such that should the electrics fail, it can continue running at speeds above idle (about 700 rpm) therefore performing essentially like a mag. When power is available, it enjoys the advantages of electronic ignition. Stan Sutterfield There isn't an electronic ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:11 PM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: Engine Running Rough Yes, I was aware of PMag and it probably is as good an alternative as you can get for a 4 cyl engine. However, it isn't available for a 6 cylinder yet, and: "Even the P-MAG model needs some source of outside power at start-up. If you are prop starting because the battery is "low", there is plenty of power for the ignition. If you're battery is "almost" dead (you only get a faint glow from the cabin light) you probably have enough power for the ignition. However if you're battery is removed or is absolutely/totally dead, you cannot prop start with the electronic ignition and "no" outside power. " On 2/19/07, Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > > > Kelly, > No wholly true. > P Mags (emagair.com) is an electronic ignition that has its own internal > generator such that should the electrics fail, it can continue running at > speeds above idle (about 700 rpm) therefore performing essentially like a > mag. When power is available, it enjoys the advantages of electronic > ignition. > Stan Sutterfield > > There isn't an electronic > ignition made that will fire without a power source. Lose your > electrics and the engine WILL quit. OK in a car, not okay in a plane. > A magneto provides plenty of voltage to fire the proper gaps for > aircraft plugs at all engine speeds above idle. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message engines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Engines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/engines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.