Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:06 AM - Re: Knock sensors? (teamgrumman@aol.com)
2. 06:37 AM - Ring flutter? (Fergus Kyle)
3. 07:17 AM - Engine stand (Doug Waddingham)
4. 07:40 AM - Re: Engine stand (BPA)
5. 12:05 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
6. 02:15 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (David M.)
7. 05:06 PM - corvair engine (SockPuppet61)
8. 06:09 PM - Re: corvair engine (Steven DiNieri)
9. 06:26 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (azevedoflyer@aol.com)
10. 06:44 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (Jim Baker)
11. 06:51 PM - Re: corvair engine (ElleryWeld@aol.com)
12. 07:36 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (John D. Heath)
13. 07:53 PM - Knock sensors (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
14. 10:42 PM - Re: Knock sensors? (Konrad L. Werner)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
I read years ago that knock sensors were tried but didn't work because
with the piston slap that is present in air cooled aircraft engines
makes it difficult for the sensor to determine the difference between
piston slap and 'knock.'
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 8:08 pm
Subject: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
We've had knock sensors on cars for many years that retard timing in
the event of detonation to keep engines running at peak fuel
efficiency. Since it is almost impossible to detect thru conventional
aircraft engine instrumentation that I'm aware of, or audibly, (such as
in cars) that such a device would be very useful in planes, but I've
never heard of such a critter. I'm kinda guessing that it is difficult
in an air-cooled engine or because of the large cylinder displacement.
Anyone aware of any attempts to do this on Lycs or Conts?
Mark Phillips
------------------------------------------------------------
See what's new
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Piston Ring flutter:
`....seems to me we had the same problem on the Super Connie (Old
Bob may comment here). This aircraft was named the largest 3-engined
airliner on the Atlantic. So. on pain of death no Driver, Airframe, would
ever reduce the Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) below 90 with the RPM
at cruise or descent because the condition would induce 'ring flutter' and
an earlier engine change was inevitable.
I suspect my employer's profit was based more on engine changes than
seat mileage.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I just received my new IO-360 from Aero Sport Power and I need to add
things like the fuel servo, governor, etc. I am considering the Aircraft
Tool Supply engine stand but I am really concerned about the engine
being top heavy and unstable on that stand. Is this concern justified?
Is there an alternative to this style of tripod stand?
Also, is it better to install the baffle kit with the engine on the
stand or should I wait until it is mounted on the airframe?
Thanks,
Doug Waddingham
Centennial, CO
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Doug,
Wouldn't it be easier to install the servo and prop governor after the
engine is already hung on the airframe instead of having to work around
these during the install? As for the baffles, I would wait until it's
hung for sure.
Allen
BPE, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Waddingham
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:16 AM
Subject: Engines-List: Engine stand
<lancairav8r@gmail.com>
I just received my new IO-360 from Aero Sport Power and I need to add
things like the fuel servo, governor, etc. I am considering the Aircraft
Tool Supply engine stand but I am really concerned about the engine
being top heavy and unstable on that stand. Is this concern justified?
Is there an alternative to this style of tripod stand?
Also, is it better to install the baffle kit with the engine on the
stand or should I wait until it is mounted on the airframe?
Thanks,
Doug Waddingham
Centennial, CO
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
Some time ago I spoke to a long-time engineering friend who has spent
his entire (40-yr.) career in automotive engine development. My
understanding? is that automobile engine knock sensors are block
mounted and detect vibration in engines that compared to aircraft
engines run quite smooth. Our engines are s*** shakers, have individual
cylinders. His conclusion was that automotive typeknock sensors would
probably NOT work in aircraft engines. I consider him very knowledgable
as well as an excellent engineer.
Larry Tompkins
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
Knock sensors are tuned to specific frequency bands depending upon the
engine they're used on. Any engine with such large jugs that they have
to have 2 plugs per cylinder just to fire all the fuel/air mixture packs
a whale of a wollop when it fires. This power ulse wollop is so much
larger than the majority of engine knocks that the use of a knock sensor
is fruitless. It's also why some props will not work with some engines.
David M.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
Some time ago I spoke to a long-time engineering friend who has spent
his entire (40-yr.) career in automotive engine development. My
understanding? is that automobile engine knock sensors are block
mounted and detect vibration in engines that compared to aircraft
engines run quite smooth. Our engines are s*** shakers, have individual
cylinders. His conclusion was that automotive typeknock sensors would
probably NOT work in aircraft engines. I consider him very knowledgable
as well as an excellent engineer.
Larry Tompkins
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi all,
I'm interested in building a Corvair conversion. Have WWs manual. I'm having a
tough time finding an engine where I live in central Texas.
The junk yards say "no".
For those who have pursued working on a Corvair conversion, where have you found
your cores?
I'm not really interested in buying a rebuilt one.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139652#139652
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Here's a few choices, oct 11, 2007
Steven dinieri
Iflyrv10.com
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair 000632018 $325 Auto Salvage Center USA-WI(Neshkoro)
E-mail 1-877-666-9632 518
1966
Engine
Chevy Corvair (6-164)- 166,000 A 07I-33 $300 Trails End Auto and Truck
Salvage, Inc. USA-IA(Des-Moines) Request_Quote 1-800-717-6505
Request_Insurance_Quote
761
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair MAYBE 1963 MODEL YEAR NAP $300 Archies Auto Recyclers
USA-IN(Merrillville) E-mail 1-219-769-2441 / 1-888-886-0118 443
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair COMPLET,87654014 87654014 $300 Hy-Way Service, LLC
USA-ME(Milford) E-mail 1-877-884-4568 / 1-207-827-5568 531
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair STUCK,98765015 98765015 $300 Hy-Way Service, LLC
USA-ME(Milford) E-mail 1-877-884-4568 / 1-207-827-5568 531
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair call for dates and pricing 10,000 A NOF $Call Denison Auto
Parts USA-OH(Cleveland) E-mail 1-800-328-9001 186
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair turbo motor- call for dates andpricing 10,000 A NOF $Call
Denison Auto Parts USA-OH(Cleveland) E-mail 1-800-328-9001 186
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair PARTS [300-05164A] (STORE:1) 182965 $Call East West Auto
Parts, Inc. USA-OK(Tulsa) E-mail 1-800-447-2886 1019
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair RWD,4SP,ITS,(1964),1 2289017 12289017 $Call Feezle Auto
Wrecking USA-PA(Enon-Valley) E-mail 1-724-336-5512 171
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair 4-1BBL,140,C O R E,T07I2RN ZZF043 $Call McLambs Auto Shop
and Salvage USA-NC(Fuquay-Varina) Request_Quote 1-800-882-0111
Request_Insurance_Quote
522
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair 67 164,110HP,RB CODE,SMOKES,RUN COR M04723 $Call All
American Classics USA-WA(Vancouver) E-mail 1-800-955-4999 2131
1966
Engine
Chevy Corvair -(6-164)-,65K 2446 $Call North Smithfield Auto
Recycling, Inc. USA-RI(North-Smithfield) Request_Quote 1-401-766-5422
Request_Insurance_Quote
384
1967
Engine
Chevy Corvair FLAT-6 CYL,164 CID,NEEDS CRANKED BC0230 $Call A-1-A Auto
Parts, Inc. USA-FL(Lakeland) Request_Quote 1-800-922-9676
Request_Insurance_Quote
1061
1965
Engine
Chevy Corvair 658912 $Call Al's Auto Salvage, LLC
USA-OK(Oklahoma-City) E-mail 866-392-9782 1121
1969
Engine
Chevy Corvair (6-164)-ASK ME 1041 $Call PorFor Auto USA-CA(Los-Angeles)
Request_Quote 1-323-589-2162 Request_Insurance_Quote 2196
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SockPuppet61
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:06 PM
Subject: Engines-List: corvair engine
--> <sockpuppet61@gmail.com>
Hi all,
I'm interested in building a Corvair conversion. Have WWs manual. I'm having
a tough time finding an engine where I live in central Texas.
The junk yards say "no".
For those who have pursued working on a Corvair conversion, where have you
found your cores?
I'm not really interested in buying a rebuilt one.
Thanks
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=139652#139652
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
Maybe we should try again!
Piston slap is a repeatable, rpm-correlated event. Detonation has a high frequency
and fast-decaying "signature". Can be easily tracked and filtered. Never had
problems with these two. Aircooled engines complicate things a bit because
of the finning which radiate vibration in a very ample spectrum. Despite the apparent
complexity, I am sure someone can develop a reliable knock sensor for
aircooled engines. What about PORSCHE engines?
The problem might reside more in the lack of a large enough market for such product
than anything else.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 3:05 am
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
?
I read years ago that knock sensors were tried but didn't work because
with the piston slap that is present in air cooled aircraft engines
makes it difficult for the sensor to determine the difference between
piston slap and 'knock.'?
?
-----Original Message-----?
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com?
Sent: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 8:08 pm?
Subject: Engines-List: Knock sensors??
?
?
?
?
?
We've had knock sensors on cars for many years that retard timing in
the event of detonation to keep engines running at peak fuel
efficiency.? Since it is almost impossible to detect thru conventional
aircraft engine instrumentation that I'm aware of, or audibly, (such as
in cars) that such a device would be very useful in planes, but I've
never heard of such a critter.? I'm kinda guessing that it is difficult
in an air-cooled engine or because of the large cylinder displacement.??
??
Anyone aware of any attempts to do this on Lycs or Conts??
??
Mark Phillips?
?
?
------------------------------------------------------------?
See what's new?
?
?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________?
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! -
http://mail.aol.com?
?
?
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
> I read years ago that knock sensors were tried but didn't work because
> with the piston slap that is present in air cooled aircraft engines
> makes it difficult for the sensor to determine the difference between
> piston slap and 'knock.'
Can't speak to the whole issue but...
I live a short ways from GAMI at Ada, OK. While over there one day I asked
about their electronic ignition. They're using an optical sensor (laser pulsed
into the cylinder via a fiber optic cable situated on an offset spark plug). The
regular 18 mm plug has the cylinder offset axially from the center and the
fiber optic is positioned on the other side. The laser detects the onset of
detonation through some sophisticated algorithims looking at charge density
and flame front propagation (as they explained it to me). GAMI chose the
nastiest engine known in terms of detonation sensitivity, a TSIO 540. They
can virtually feed this beast almost anything combustible and it runs without
complaint. They even demonstarte changing fuel types during a full power
test cell run and you'd never know anything had changed except by watching
the timing and EGT changes on the data screen. Its been a year or so since I
saw it in operation and don't know their current status for certification testing.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
'71 SV, 492TC
Elmore City, OK
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: corvair engine |
I have just what your looking for if you want a core engine and I have some
books and info on them also
I have a 6 cylinder Corvair engine
Email me at _ElleryWeld@aol.com_ (mailto:ElleryWeld@aol.com) if your
interested
Ellery
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
Porsche air cooled six cylanders have one on each side mounted on a bar
that is bolted to three cylinders. They work good.
----- Original Message -----
From: azevedoflyer@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
Maybe we should try again!
Piston slap is a repeatable, rpm-correlated event. Detonation has a
high frequency and fast-decaying "signature". Can be easily tracked and
filtered. Never had problems with these two. Aircooled engines
complicate things a bit because of the finning which radiate vibration
in a very ample spectrum. Despite the apparent complexity, I am sure
someone can develop a reliable knock sensor for aircooled engines. What
about PORSCHE engines?
The problem might reside more in the lack of a large enough market for
such product than anything else.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 3:05 am
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
I read years ago that knock sensors were tried but didn't work because
with the piston slap that is present in air cooled aircraft engines
makes it difficult for the sensor to determine the difference between
piston slap and 'knock.'
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 8:08 pm
Subject: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
We've had knock sensors on cars for many years that retard timing in
the event of detonation to keep engines running at peak fuel efficiency.
Since it is almost impossible to detect thru conventional aircraft
engine instrumentation that I'm aware of, or audibly, (such as in cars)
that such a device would be very useful in planes, but I've never heard
of such a critter. I'm kinda guessing that it is difficult in an
air-cooled engine or because of the large cylinder displacement.
Anyone aware of any attempts to do this on Lycs or Conts?
Mark Phillips
------------------------------------------------------------
See what's new
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
- http://mail.aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail!
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I'm not aware of anyone who's tried this on a big bore aircraft engine and
I've been wondering why also. My 1981 Turbocharged Trans Am had a rather
simple knock sensing system. There was a piezo-electric sensor screwed into
the engine block. The signal from the sensor was amplified and converted to
digital to be analyzed by the microprocessor in the crude engine controllers
of the time. If the engine started knocking the microcontroller would
detect the spike in the voltage of the piezo sensor and send a signal to the
distributor to retard the spark. This wouldn't be real easy to do with
magneto ignition but folks like e-mag/p-mag and Lightspeed should be able to
incorporate the amplifier and A/D convertor into their boxes and sell them
along with a commercially available piezo sensor. One would have to find a
suitable place on the crankcase to solidly mount the sensor but there is no
reason it shouldn't work. Even if the sensor output could be sent to a
display that helped the pilot identify detonation would be better than no
detection at all. Then more of us could run mogas with better piece of mind
and stop using it if we get a bad batch.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A IO-360
____________________ Original Message _______________________________
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
We've had knock sensors on cars for many years that retard timing in the
event of detonation to keep engines running at peak fuel efficiency. I'm
kinda guessing that it is difficult in an air-cooled engine or because of
the large cylinder displacement.
Anyone aware of any attempts to do this on Lycs or Conts?
Mark Phillips
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Knock sensors? |
Aircooled Porsche's are somewhat around 1/2 Liter per Cylinder (~3Liter
/ 6Cyl.), whereas the 360cid Lycoming's cylinder volume's are nearly
TRIPLE that... Different smoothness for sure...
----- Original Message -----
From: John D. Heath
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
Porsche air cooled six cylanders have one on each side mounted on a
bar that is bolted to three cylinders. They work good.
----- Original Message -----
From: azevedoflyer@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 12, 2007 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
Maybe we should try again!
Piston slap is a repeatable, rpm-correlated event. Detonation has a
high frequency and fast-decaying "signature". Can be easily tracked and
filtered. Never had problems with these two. Aircooled engines
complicate things a bit because of the finning which radiate vibration
in a very ample spectrum. Despite the apparent complexity, I am sure
someone can develop a reliable knock sensor for aircooled engines. What
about PORSCHE engines?
The problem might reside more in the lack of a large enough market
for such product than anything else.
-----Original Message-----
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 3:05 am
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
I read years ago that knock sensors were tried but didn't work
because with the piston slap that is present in air cooled aircraft
engines makes it difficult for the sensor to determine the difference
between piston slap and 'knock.'
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 8:08 pm
Subject: Engines-List: Knock sensors?
We've had knock sensors on cars for many years that retard timing in
the event of detonation to keep engines running at peak fuel efficiency.
Since it is almost impossible to detect thru conventional aircraft
engine instrumentation that I'm aware of, or audibly, (such as in cars)
that such a device would be very useful in planes, but I've never heard
of such a critter. I'm kinda guessing that it is difficult in an
air-cooled engine or because of the large cylinder displacement.
Anyone aware of any attempts to do this on Lycs or Conts?
Mark Phillips
------------------------------------------------------------
See what's new
________________________________________________________________________
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
Mail!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|