---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/30/09: 1 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:27 PM - Re: timing advance (Generation 3 Ignition) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:55 PM PST US From: "Generation 3 Ignition" Subject: Engines-List: Re: timing advance Hello Dave, Well first off, we all know the aircraft engine is of large displacement, which has a very small rpm window of operation, and to top it off also, it has very poor air/fuel atomization with a huge combustion chamber. So, how? Well the fuel economy and extra hp comes from the Multiple Spark Discharge (MSD). When the first firing event of the MSD takes place, a flame front is created. As this flame front is burning in the combustion chamber, there is a swirling turbulence that takes place. Drawing unburned air/fuel mixture passed the spark plugs. This is where the MSD come into play. The second and third firing event then ignites this air/fuel mixture, which creates a quicker complete burn of the air/fuel mixture as the piston passes through TDC. The MSD spark is not hotter and doesn't need to be, that is why we do not use huge spark plug air gaps. As the saying goes, screwing a 75 watt light bulb into a 300 watt socket the bulb is not going to burn any brighter. The others all claim to get their advantage from timing advance along with hotter spark. The key word in the sentence is "spark" that's singular. With one spark you need more time to get that complete combustion since it is so slow. The only way is to ramp up (advance) the timing close to the verge of detonation, and also deliver a hotter spark hoping that it will have a better chance (only chance) of ignition. With these timing advances, the cylinder pressures go up tremendously as the piston travels towards and over TDC. This creates more ware on engine internals from these pressures. As for a =BD and =BD mag/electronic advance ignition system.. For example, the electronics are firing @, let's say 35 degrees and the mag is set at 25 degrees. Since the combustion has already started, that mag is now confronted with firing though an incredible amount of cylinder pressure, if it can at all. I have seen mag failure on the =BD and =BD systems. I hope this helps some, these will be some of the topics spoken in great detail @ our booth at AirVenture this year. Sincerely, Thomas S. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus timing advance So you are saying there is negligible benefit to advancing timing greater than 25 degrees BTDC below 12,500 pressure altitude and only a 1% advantage above? Where then does the fuel economy and extra hp you see with your system come from? The hotter spark? I am really trying to understand all the different systems out there and yours seems to be the easiest to install, and I like the mag back-up. But the others all claim to get their advantage from timing advance along with hotter spark. I'll be frank, I am torn between your system and Electroair. I would use a single mag and the Electroair system. Sell me on yours. Thanks!! Dave ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 7:18 AM Subject: Re: FormContactus timing advance Hello Dave, The G3i system dose not have a timing advance built in. A timing control module can be added which will give you a adjustable timing window of 15 degrees from base timing angle. We found in flight testing/research working with different timing angles, the benefits of economy and performance of running more than a couple of degrees higher than the stock manufacture timing setting were not all that beneficial below 12K. And less than 1% @ altitudes above 12,500ft and less than 60% power. All performance and economy specs.show are @ the stock engine manufacturer timing angle. Sincerely, Thomas Shpakow ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 11:29 PM Subject: ***SPAM***Re: FormContactus Does your system advance timing? Dave ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: FormContactus Hello Dave, Well, there is really no comparison, Slick/Unison LASAR would be the closest since it still has the mag redundancy. There are many benefits to electronic ignitions systems out there, however our product has the best fall back on redundancy available. You don't have to run half a ignition system to still have mag redunecy. Its doesn't require back-up batteries to still operate if you lose the aircraft electrical system, and/or if a sensor or some other electronic ignition component fails, the G3i system reverts back to the original magnetos to still continue ignition firing. The G3i system fires both ignition systems together in perfect sync. which produces engine smoothness and performance/economy gains. Fuel economy gains are realistically are from 8% to 14%. On static dynamotor test pulls, 2% - 5% has been record in pounds of thrust @ 100% power. On starting the G3i provides multiple spark to both L&R ignitions instantly in sync. making starting much easier. Does not need 3 crankshaft revolutions to see a signal on when to fire. Installation is straight forward and easily done. Please ck out our website on the insall manual or give us a call about our product. We will be in KOSH Airventure booth 1148 this year also. Thank you for you inquiry. Sincerely, Thomas Shpakow Interfacing Aircraft Magnetos Electronic Multiple Spark Technology GENERATION 3 IGNITION 2331 W. Hampden Ave. 130 Englewood, CO. 80110 T 303-781-9449 C 303-906-6846 F 303-806-5120 www.g3ignition.com mail@g3ignition.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 10:56 PM Subject: FormContactus > hearabout: matronics RV-10 list > question: How does your system compare to LASAR or Electroair and others? > I am building an RV-10. I was considering Electroair until I saw your product. > Ease of install? Any better performance than others? Thanks. > > Dave Leikam > RV-10 > Submit32: Submit > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message engines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Engines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/engines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.