Today's Message Index:
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1. 10:13 AM - Float doesn't (teamgrumman@aol.com)
2. 12:49 PM - Re: Float doesn't (n801bh@netzero.com)
3. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: Paul Lamar. !!! (Ed Smith)
Message 1
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I had a customer call several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' on a landing,
kind of like it wanted to stall. ?As he rolled out onto the taxiway, the
engine felt normal. ?We made an appointment to check it out, and left it at that.
?The next few flights were about the same. ?He didn't worry much about the
engine. ?
A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out) he called
saying it was worse. ?
Note: ?He has a Cheetah, O320-E2G. ?Several years ago I had a customer with the
same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle working it's way
out. ?
I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to bring it
in. ?He planned to bring it in but never did. ?The engine 'felt' better. ?
Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. ?He said it barely ran
at idle. ?He finally brought it in last Friday. ?
I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture screw,
looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. ?We removed the cowling and airbox.
?Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb on my Cheetah had fallen
out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox. ?I expected to find something
like that. ?Nothing. ?Venturi was tight,?accelerator nozzle was tight . .
. ?nothing. ?I removed the carb.
I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. ?Nothing. ?Then I noticed
one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel. ?These are
the white floats. ?They should have been changed. ?Except that, the carb had been
overhauled in 2005. ?All new parts. ?
Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Float doesn't |
Easy... Find the yellow tag that was sent with the rebult carb/engine an
d take a pic of the floats. send it in to the local FSDO/FSFO etc... If
they are going to charge a premium price for aircraft quality work then
by gosh they need to deliver.. MHO.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: teamgrumman@aol.com
Subject: Engines-List: Float doesn't
I had a customer call several weeks ago saying his engine felt 'weird' o
n a landing, kind of like it wanted to stall. As he rolled out onto the
taxiway, the engine felt normal. We made an appointment to check it ou
t, and left it at that. The next few flights were about the same. He d
idn't worry much about the engine.
A couple of weeks ago (oh, he never did come down to have it checked out
) he called saying it was worse.
Note: He has a Cheetah, O320-E2G. Several years ago I had a customer w
ith the same symptoms with his Cheetah and it was the mixture needle wor
king it's way out.
I had him check the mixture screw and turn it in a 1/4 turn and said to
bring it in. He planned to bring it in but never did. The engine 'felt
' better.
Last week, he called saying it was getting a lot worse. He said it bare
ly ran at idle. He finally brought it in last Friday.
I looked for all of the basic stuff, leaks at the intake tubes, mixture
screw, looked for leaks on the carb . . . . nothing. We removed the cow
ling and airbox. Several years ago, the accelerator nozzle in the carb
on my Cheetah had fallen out and was lying in the bottom of the airbox.
I expected to find something like that. Nothing. Venturi was tight, a
ccelerator nozzle was tight . . . nothing. I removed the carb.
I expected to find debris in the bottom of the carb. Nothing. Then I n
oticed one of the semi-transparent floats was full, I mean full, of fuel
. These are the white floats. They should have been changed. Except t
hat, the carb had been overhauled in 2005. All new parts.
Carb goes to Ken, at Lycon, in the morning.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Paul Lamar. !!! |
Does this guy even know what an 801 is. To suggest a little geo for
an 801 is a little odd for such a large plane Ed Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: ogoodwin@comcast.net
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!!
Possibly the fact that he's operating from 6000msl (field elevation)
up. I don't think a Geo would work well crossing a 14000 ft mountain
range. By flat rating (limiting the power used) he has the effect of a
supercharged engine without the mechanical complexity. He's also using
such a small amount of the engine's potential that it should pretty well
last forever. Maybe giving up a little fuel is worth it to him. He can
carry the power the Geo makes at sea level up into the oxygen bottle
levels.
His numbers make sense if you factor in the way he's operating the
engine. Many of us are used to pulling the max power the engine will
put out for takeoff, then 75% for cruise, and so forth.
Olen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Michaels" <nov32394@yahoo.com>
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 9:00:45 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada
Mountain
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!!
I think what he is saying is why have such a big engine out
front if you are only going to use what a little GEO engine will put out
at half the weight. Not only are you carrying extra weight, but your
fuel burn is more carrying that weight.
Just an observation.
Dan
--- On Fri, 9/18/09, n801bh@netzero.com <n801bh@netzero.com>
wrote:
From: n801bh@netzero.com <n801bh@netzero.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!!
To: engines-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, September 18, 2009, 11:30 PM
This posting that was on the internet was forwarded to me by
several
friends....... What a piece of work he is !
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--=C2=AD---------------------------------------------------------------
On the "801"
=9CThis is an accident waiting to happen. The motor
mount is incorrectly
designed with un triangulated bays and bent tubes in tension
and
compression. The firewall forward weight is at least 450
pounds
aluminum block or no aluminum block. No mention is made of
beefing up
the fuselage to take the vastly increased bending loads during
landing
and high G turns not to mention the increased bending loads on
the
wing spars. Zenairs are not over designed to begin with
having very
thin skins.
"The fuel burn is better then expected though and I am
presently
confirming the JPI 450 for accuracy. Cruise @ 11,000 msl is
producing
5.9 0 -6.3 gallons an hour."
The numbers quoted above shows a lack of understanding about
engine
engineering in general. The fuel burn quoted at 6 gallons an
hour or
37 pounds an hour means the engine is only generating 83 HP
giving it
the benefit of a BSFC number of .45. In the unlikely event the
BSFC is
as low as .40 the HP then would be 93 HP at the absolute
maximum. Now
you have a 450 pound firewall forward weight putting out 93 HP
at
cruise.
Something is seriously wrong.
"The numbers I am shooting for are one pound of engine
weight for
each horsepower and a small total engine profile that will fit
in most
airframes."
What he is saying here is he things he is going to get 350 to
400 HP
with a 1.43:1 PSRU ratio. With a 2600 RPM prop that is 3700
engine
RPM. No way is that going to happen.
This person is totally clueless.
I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous
airplanes I have seen in a very long time.
Paul Lamar=9D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--=C2=AD----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know who this "person" is or what his qualifications
are but..
I am compelled to answer his hatchet job on every topic.
My project is a one of a kind. I had no group, forum or any
other
source to go to during the design, and test flying of my
experimental
aircraft, so all the calculations, fabrications and
installations are
a one off and done to the best of my ability using past life
experiences from fabricating stuff on race boats, cars and god
only
knows whatever I have modified in earlier years.
I built my plane, 3000 + hours of MY time. I didn't but a half
built
one, or a completed one to use a test bed for my powerplant. I
have
been flying for almost 30 years and owned several other
planes.
My experimental plane has been flying for 5 years and 300
hours.
Been flown in air from 97f to -37f. Has over 500 landing,
been flown
from JAC, 6430 msl to 18,000 feet, full throttle, !! over a
couple of
dozen times to test it for strength. Been flown in all other
power
settings to comfirm and quantify data. Tested to +3.5g's to -
2.5 g's.
Flown to OSH and back... not trucked there as others seem to
do to
display their creations.
My responses..
1- When is this " accident" going to happen ??
2- The mount is designed by me using triangulation, just go to
my web
site and look at the pics.
3- There are NO bent tubes in my mount. there are intersecting
angles
but that happens on ALL mounts. At those intersections the
area is
beefed up internally. Just because you can't see it doesn't
mean crap.
4- I know EXACTLY what it weighs. I don't guess like he seems
to. And
it is less then his "estimation"
5- Of course I beefed up the airframe as I built it. Just
because I
didn't state that on my website should not give him a pass at
a free
shot.
6- Zenith Aircraft seem to be an "issue" to him. Mine has
twice the
"suggested" HP and still has not broken in half.
7- The plane has so much power that at cruise I can throttle
back to
ALOT.. A 801 has alot of aerodynamic drag. I can run 90@ 6.4
GPH or
110@ 17 GPH. The plane hits a brick wall so why burn three
times the
fuel to go a little faster. If I wanted to go fast I would
have built
another type plane. You would think a guy like him could draw
a simple
conclusion.
8- I have probably built, raced and tested more engines hen he
can
dream about.
9- BSFC of .45 ??? Jeez. I would be embarrased to tune a
motor that
rich.
10- Nothing is " seriously wrong"............. I am seriously
throttled back.
11- The motor is capable of 600 + Hp in different trim. ie,
different
redrive ratio, different intake design, etc. The motor will
not gain
any more weight by changing componants, so 350-400 Hp is a no
brainer.. On MY plane I purposely stayed with 1.43-1 because
it for
sure doen not need any more power.
12- Where did he get the 3700 RPM # from ? I turn the motor
alot
higher then that on take off. Yeah, the prop is kinda noisy
but
nothing worse then what noise a seaplane makes with a large
diameter
prop.
13- """ Totally Clueless""" Ya wanna bet..
And in closing all I can add is
" I am really worried here. Probably one of the most dangerous
airplanes I have seen in a very long time. "
Geez... Where was he 5 years and 300 hours ago ??????.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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