Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:28 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (n801bh@netzero.com)
2. 07:38 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (Mel Lewis)
3. 09:29 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (Daniel Michaels)
4. 09:48 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (n801bh@netzero.com)
5. 10:10 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (teamgrumman@aol.com)
6. 06:14 PM - Rotary BSFC was : Re: Paul Lamar. !!! (Ed Anderson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Hi-Rev car engines |
It will rev that high,,,,,, if ya leave it in third gear..<GGGGGGG>
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Randy L. Thwing" <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
do not archive Hello All: Today I read this on this list: "The GEO engin
e runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway."
Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball par
k. In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircr
aft, I have often heard statements such as above where: "These new hi-re
vving car engines run all day long at high rpms. Between my own experien
ce, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true
. I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I
have noted the following: I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Coma
nche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six,
turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets
nearly 30 mpg on the highway. 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '98 Toyota 4R
unner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph. I have polled friends with co
mpact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or ove
r 3000 rpm at 70 mph. If I have this wrong, please point out specific ex
amples. Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check.
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Message 2
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Subject: | Hi-Rev car engines |
My RAV4 at 75MPH is somewhere around 3000.
BUT! . . .If I am going up hill at all, it is so under powered it drops down
a gear or two and the RPM will go to 4500 at full power to climb the hill.
I am sure it would run at that 4500 RPM and full power all day long.
-Mel-
_____
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
Probably a little high but smaller engines do tend to be geared higher than
big ones. The Mazda MX5 (Miata) turns about 4000 - 4300 at hiway speeds.
My Kawasaki 650 twin turns close to 4800 at 70 mph.
My 13B rotary cruises at 5200 - 5600 at 170 mph (in the plane) and I have
raced it at 7250 continuously (for 100 mile races). I would not feel
comfortable with that rpm if there were pistons in there stopping & starting
that rapidly. That might be just a psychological thing though.
Tracy Crook
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com>
wrote:
do not archive
Hello All:
Today I read this on this list:
"The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the
freeway."
Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball park.
In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircraft, I
have often heard statements such as above where:
"These new hi-revving car engines run all day long at high rpms.
Between my own experience, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't
found that to be true. I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience
with a GEO, but I have noted the following:
I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Comanche pickup, Identical engines
and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph.
I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway.
2500 rpm@ 70 mph.
I have a '98 Toyota 4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph.
I have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't
recall any turning at or over 3000 rpm at 70 mph.
If I have this wrong, please point out specific examples.
Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check.
Regards,
Randy, Las Vegas
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Hi-Rev car engines |
A GEO engine is closer to a motorcycle engine than a 6 cylinder car engine.
My Gold wing runs 5000 rpm all day on the freeway red lines at 8000 rpm si
milar to the GEO at 6500. These little engines have been running on planes
for some time. The companies that convert them say they run best at 4800.
Dan
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0Ado not archive=0A-=0AHello All:=0A-=0AToday I read thi
s on this list:=0A-=0A"The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equ
ivalent to 70 mph on the =0Afreeway."=0A-=0ACould everyone or anyone plea
se verify that this is =0Aeven in the ball park.=0A-=0AIn the last severa
l years that car engines have =0Abeen adapted to aircraft, I have often hea
rd statements such as above =0Awhere:=0A-=0A"These new hi-revving car eng
ines run all day long =0Aat high rpms.=0A-=0ABetween my own experience, a
nd polling friends with =0Asmall cars, I haven't found that to be true.-
I'm not challenging anyone =0Aand I have no experience with a GEO, but I ha
ve noted the =0Afollowing:=0A-=0AI had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep
Comanche =0Apickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight
six, turned 2100 =0Arpm@ 70 mph.=0A-=0AI have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8
lite V6, gets =0Anearly 30 mpg on the highway.- 2500 rpm@ 70 mph.=0A-
=0AI have a '98 Toyota 4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, =0A2400-rpm@ 70-mph.
=0A-=0AI have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys =0A& Toyotas,
and don't recall any turning at or-over 3000 rpm at 70 =0Amph.=0A-=0AIf
I have this wrong, please point out specific =0Aexamples.=0A-=0AMost lat
er models cars have tachs so it's not too =0Ahard to check.=0A-=0A-=0AR
egards,=0A-=0ARandy, Las Vegas=0A-=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Hi-Rev car engines |
I agree with all that...
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
---------- Original Message ----------
From: Daniel Michaels <nov32394@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
A GEO engine is closer to a motorcycle engine than a 6 cylinder car engi
ne. My Gold wing runs 5000 rpm all day on the freeway red lines at 8000
rpm similar to the GEO at 6500. These little engines have been running o
n planes for some time. The companies that convert them say they run bes
t at 4800.
Dan
--- On Mon, 9/21/09, Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
From: Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com>
Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
do not archive Hello All: Today I read this on this list: "The GEO engin
e runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway."
Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball par
k. In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircr
aft, I have often heard statements such as above where: "These new hi-re
vving car engines run all day long at high rpms. Between my own experien
ce, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true
. I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I
have noted the following: I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Coma
nche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six,
turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets
nearly 30 mpg on the highway. 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '98 Toyota 4R
unner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph. I have polled friends with co
mpact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or ove
r 3000 rpm at 70 mph. If I have this wrong, please point out specific ex
amples. Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check.
Regards, Randy, Las Vegas http://www.matronics.com/=======
=================<BRLLOW" href="http
://forums.matronics.com" target="_blank">http://forums.
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nofollow size="2" face="courier new,courier" #000000?></FONT></PRE><
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Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Hi-Rev car engines |
My Tahoe runs all day long at 75 mph at 1900 rpm and gets 20 mpg.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mel Lewis <mlewis@mlode.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 7:38 am
Subject: RE: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines
My RAV4 at 75MPH is somewhere around 3000.
BUT! . . .If I am going up hill at all, it
is so under powered it drops down a gear or two and the RPM will go to 4500 at
full power to climb the hill.
I am sure it would run at that 4500 RPM
and full power all day long.
-Mel-
?
From:
owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009
9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev
car engines
?
Probably a little high
but smaller engines do tend to be geared higher than big ones.? The Mazda
MX5 (Miata) turns about 4000 - 4300 at hiway speeds.? My Kawasaki 650 twin turns
close to 4800 at 70
mph.
My 13B rotary cruises at 5200 - 5600 at 170 mph (in the plane) and I have raced
it at 7250 continuously (for 100 mile races).? I would not feel
comfortable with that rpm if there were pistons in there stopping &
starting that rapidly.? That might be just a psychological thing though.
Tracy Crook
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Randy L. Thwing <n4546v@mindspring.com> wrote:
do not archive
?
Hello All:
?
Today I read this on this list:
?
"The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70
mph on the freeway."
?
Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in
the ball park.
?
In the last several years that car engines have been adapted
to aircraft, I have often heard statements such as above where:
?
"These new hi-revving car engines run all day long at
high rpms.
?
Between my own experience, and polling friends with small
cars, I haven't found that to be true.? I'm not challenging anyone and I
have no experience with a GEO, but I have noted the following:
?
I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Comanche
pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100
rpm@ 70 mph.
?
I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg
on the highway.? 2500 rpm@ 70 mph.
?
I have a '98 Toyota
4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400?rpm@ 70?mph.
?
I have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys &
Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or?over 3000 rpm at 70 mph.
?
If I have this wrong, please point out specific examples.
?
Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to
check.
?
?
Regards,
?
Randy, Las Vegas
?
?
?
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
?
?
?
?
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
?
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Paul Lamar. !!! |
For the reasons you cited, the rotary BSPC is not as good as a comparable
piston engine. The best I have seen is around 0.5 - 0.55 although some
claims up to 0.47.
However, Mazda has a completely new design rotary (16X) developmental engine
they have shown. The have gone to a narrower rotor housing and doubled the
length of the throw on the eccentric shaft (thereby doubling the torque at
all rpm over the current 13B) and also increased the diameter of the rotor.
They have also changed from the heavy cast iron side housings to aluminum
side housings. The rotor is narrower but larger in diameter all to improve
the BSFC.
The preliminary figures suggest that the block will weigh approx 20-30 lbs
less than the current block with the cast iron side housings and will
produce in the vicinity of 220-230 HP naturally aspire.
If they do come out with in an automobile package before 2012, I intend to
swap out my older 13B with 450 hours and 10 years on it.
The rotary is a very reliable engine, however, the BSFC is never going to
be quite as good as the better piston engines. Fortunately, it has a number
of other attributes that continue to make it the alternative engine of
choice for a growing number.
Just a biased personal opinion of course {:>)
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://www.andersonee.com
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
http://www.flyrotary.com/
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!!
> On his forum/sandbox someone sent in two dyno sheets for a rotary.
> The BSFC numbers were in the .65 range... Funny, not one person
> spoke up about that, not even the "wizzard".
>
Some people in the rotary community are sensitive about that. I got
smacked down on the RV List a few years ago for suggesting (based on
engineering references) that it was an accepted fact that rotaries
have a lower BSFC than piston engines, generally speaking. Being two-
strokes, effectively, and having a very poor surface-volume ratio in
the combustion chamber (compared to a piston engine) it's not
surprising that they would have low BSFC. I found it odd that anyone
even challenged the statement, but there you go.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
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