---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 09/22/09: 6 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:28 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (n801bh@netzero.com) 2. 07:38 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (Mel Lewis) 3. 09:29 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (Daniel Michaels) 4. 09:48 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (n801bh@netzero.com) 5. 10:10 AM - Re: Hi-Rev car engines (teamgrumman@aol.com) 6. 06:14 PM - Rotary BSFC was : Re: Paul Lamar. !!! (Ed Anderson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:27 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines It will rev that high,,,,,, if ya leave it in third gear.. Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: "Randy L. Thwing" Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines do not archive Hello All: Today I read this on this list: "The GEO engin e runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway." Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball par k. In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircr aft, I have often heard statements such as above where: "These new hi-re vving car engines run all day long at high rpms. Between my own experien ce, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true . I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I have noted the following: I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Coma nche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway. 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '98 Toyota 4R unner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph. I have polled friends with co mpact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or ove r 3000 rpm at 70 mph. If I have this wrong, please point out specific ex amples. Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check. ======================== ======================== ======================== ======================== =================== ____________________________________________________________ Become a Court Reporter with an accredited degree. Free info. Click Here .. http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYRVtoxwesf0NXaSkuwy gqkbBtoqFidZEf3sKCyIwrtTu3WAjEKaAI/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:47 AM PST US From: "Mel Lewis" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines My RAV4 at 75MPH is somewhere around 3000. BUT! . . .If I am going up hill at all, it is so under powered it drops down a gear or two and the RPM will go to 4500 at full power to climb the hill. I am sure it would run at that 4500 RPM and full power all day long. -Mel- _____ From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines Probably a little high but smaller engines do tend to be geared higher than big ones. The Mazda MX5 (Miata) turns about 4000 - 4300 at hiway speeds. My Kawasaki 650 twin turns close to 4800 at 70 mph. My 13B rotary cruises at 5200 - 5600 at 170 mph (in the plane) and I have raced it at 7250 continuously (for 100 mile races). I would not feel comfortable with that rpm if there were pistons in there stopping & starting that rapidly. That might be just a psychological thing though. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote: do not archive Hello All: Today I read this on this list: "The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway." Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball park. In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircraft, I have often heard statements such as above where: "These new hi-revving car engines run all day long at high rpms. Between my own experience, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true. I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I have noted the following: I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Comanche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway. 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '98 Toyota 4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph. I have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or over 3000 rpm at 70 mph. If I have this wrong, please point out specific examples. Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check. Regards, Randy, Las Vegas target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:56 AM PST US From: Daniel Michaels Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines A GEO engine is closer to a motorcycle engine than a 6 cylinder car engine. My Gold wing runs 5000 rpm all day on the freeway red lines at 8000 rpm si milar to the GEO at 6500. These little engines have been running on planes for some time. The companies that convert them say they run best at 4800. Dan --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Randy L. Thwing wrote: From: Randy L. Thwing Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines =0A=0A =0A =0A=0Ado not archive=0A-=0AHello All:=0A-=0AToday I read thi s on this list:=0A-=0A"The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equ ivalent to 70 mph on the =0Afreeway."=0A-=0ACould everyone or anyone plea se verify that this is =0Aeven in the ball park.=0A-=0AIn the last severa l years that car engines have =0Abeen adapted to aircraft, I have often hea rd statements such as above =0Awhere:=0A-=0A"These new hi-revving car eng ines run all day long =0Aat high rpms.=0A-=0ABetween my own experience, a nd polling friends with =0Asmall cars, I haven't found that to be true.- I'm not challenging anyone =0Aand I have no experience with a GEO, but I ha ve noted the =0Afollowing:=0A-=0AI had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Comanche =0Apickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 =0Arpm@ 70 mph.=0A-=0AI have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets =0Anearly 30 mpg on the highway.- 2500 rpm@ 70 mph.=0A- =0AI have a '98 Toyota 4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, =0A2400-rpm@ 70-mph. =0A-=0AI have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys =0A& Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or-over 3000 rpm at 70 =0Amph.=0A-=0AIf I have this wrong, please point out specific =0Aexamples.=0A-=0AMost lat er models cars have tachs so it's not too =0Ahard to check.=0A-=0A-=0AR egards,=0A-=0ARandy, Las Vegas=0A-=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:39 AM PST US From: "n801bh@netzero.com" Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines I agree with all that... Ben Haas N801BH www.haaspowerair.com ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Daniel Michaels Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines A GEO engine is closer to a motorcycle engine than a 6 cylinder car engi ne. My Gold wing runs 5000 rpm all day on the freeway red lines at 8000 rpm similar to the GEO at 6500. These little engines have been running o n planes for some time. The companies that convert them say they run bes t at 4800. Dan --- On Mon, 9/21/09, Randy L. Thwing wrote: From: Randy L. Thwing Subject: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines do not archive Hello All: Today I read this on this list: "The GEO engin e runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway." Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball par k. In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircr aft, I have often heard statements such as above where: "These new hi-re vving car engines run all day long at high rpms. Between my own experien ce, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true . I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I have noted the following: I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Coma nche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway. 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. I have a '98 Toyota 4R unner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400 rpm@ 70 mph. I have polled friends with co mpact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or ove r 3000 rpm at 70 mph. If I have this wrong, please point out specific ex amples. Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check. Regards, Randy, Las Vegas http://www.matronics.com/======= =================http://forums. = --> < /DIV>


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____________________________________________________________ Improve your quality of life. Click now and get an experienced life coac h! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2241/fc/BLSrjpYRI3mNxN94FuW3i9sKf WUzC9JYogalzBB8no9trVAw53hF3qHLjSA/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:10:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines From: teamgrumman@aol.com My Tahoe runs all day long at 75 mph at 1900 rpm and gets 20 mpg. -----Original Message----- From: Mel Lewis Sent: Tue, Sep 22, 2009 7:38 am Subject: RE: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines My RAV4 at 75MPH is somewhere around 3000. BUT! . . .If I am going up hill at all, it is so under powered it drops down a gear or two and the RPM will go to 4500 at full power to climb the hill. I am sure it would run at that 4500 RPM and full power all day long. -Mel- ? From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:40 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Hi-Rev car engines ? Probably a little high but smaller engines do tend to be geared higher than big ones.? The Mazda MX5 (Miata) turns about 4000 - 4300 at hiway speeds.? My Kawasaki 650 twin turns close to 4800 at 70 mph. My 13B rotary cruises at 5200 - 5600 at 170 mph (in the plane) and I have raced it at 7250 continuously (for 100 mile races).? I would not feel comfortable with that rpm if there were pistons in there stopping & starting that rapidly.? That might be just a psychological thing though. Tracy Crook On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Randy L. Thwing wrote: do not archive ? Hello All: ? Today I read this on this list: ? "The GEO engine runs all day at 4800 rpm that's equivalent to 70 mph on the freeway." ? Could everyone or anyone please verify that this is even in the ball park. ? In the last several years that car engines have been adapted to aircraft, I have often heard statements such as above where: ? "These new hi-revving car engines run all day long at high rpms. ? Between my own experience, and polling friends with small cars, I haven't found that to be true.? I'm not challenging anyone and I have no experience with a GEO, but I have noted the following: ? I had a '89 Jeep Cherokee and a "88 Jeep Comanche pickup, Identical engines and running gear, 4.0 litre straight six, turned 2100 rpm@ 70 mph. ? I have a '89 Firebird with a 2.8 lite V6, gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway.? 2500 rpm@ 70 mph. ? I have a '98 Toyota 4Runner with 3.4 litre V6, 2400?rpm@ 70?mph. ? I have polled friends with compact Pontiacs, Chevys & Toyotas, and don't recall any turning at or?over 3000 rpm at 70 mph. ? If I have this wrong, please point out specific examples. ? Most later models cars have tachs so it's not too hard to check. ? ? Regards, ? Randy, Las Vegas ? ? ? target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ? ? ? http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:15 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Rotary BSFC was : Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!! For the reasons you cited, the rotary BSPC is not as good as a comparable piston engine. The best I have seen is around 0.5 - 0.55 although some claims up to 0.47. However, Mazda has a completely new design rotary (16X) developmental engine they have shown. The have gone to a narrower rotor housing and doubled the length of the throw on the eccentric shaft (thereby doubling the torque at all rpm over the current 13B) and also increased the diameter of the rotor. They have also changed from the heavy cast iron side housings to aluminum side housings. The rotor is narrower but larger in diameter all to improve the BSFC. The preliminary figures suggest that the block will weigh approx 20-30 lbs less than the current block with the cast iron side housings and will produce in the vicinity of 220-230 HP naturally aspire. If they do come out with in an automobile package before 2012, I intend to swap out my older 13B with 450 hours and 10 years on it. The rotary is a very reliable engine, however, the BSFC is never going to be quite as good as the better piston engines. Fortunately, it has a number of other attributes that continue to make it the alternative engine of choice for a growing number. Just a biased personal opinion of course {:>) Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://www.andersonee.com http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html http://www.flyrotary.com/ http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.rotaryaviation.com/Rotorhead%20Truth.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 9:07 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Re: Paul Lamar. !!! > On his forum/sandbox someone sent in two dyno sheets for a rotary. > The BSFC numbers were in the .65 range... Funny, not one person > spoke up about that, not even the "wizzard". > Some people in the rotary community are sensitive about that. I got smacked down on the RV List a few years ago for suggesting (based on engineering references) that it was an accepted fact that rotaries have a lower BSFC than piston engines, generally speaking. Being two- strokes, effectively, and having a very poor surface-volume ratio in the combustion chamber (compared to a piston engine) it's not surprising that they would have low BSFC. I found it odd that anyone even challenged the statement, but there you go. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3267 (20080714) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message engines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Engines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/engines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.