Engines-List Digest Archive

Thu 04/22/10


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:50 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Noel Loveys)
     2. 06:50 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (FLYaDIVE)
     3. 06:51 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Noel Loveys)
     4. 06:53 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Noel Loveys)
     5. 07:41 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Dwight Frye)
     6. 08:39 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (jerb)
     7. 08:44 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Dj Merrill)
     8. 11:48 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Dwight Frye)
     9. 11:49 AM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Dwight Frye)
    10. 01:20 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (FLYaDIVE)
    11. 06:32 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (jerb)
    12. 06:43 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Dwight Frye)
    13. 06:52 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (jerb)
    14. 07:34 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Jim Aitken)
    15. 08:08 PM - Re: O-235 Plug Fouling? (Kelly McMullen)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:50:39 AM PST US
    From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    The reason they called it Low Lead, I call it Lead Loaded, is when it first came out i was actually a low lead alternative to some of the high octane aviation fuels available at the time. It's still great stuff for the guys who are lucky enough to own one of the original 426 hemis. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jerb Sent: April 21, 2010 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? Hi Dwight, Owned a 73-7ECA with a O-235 for a number of years. First I would not go leaning the engine during taxi - your future is looking at scored cylinders and Big $$$$. Your problem is not carbon but lead from the 100 low lead aviation fuel. (Never could figure out why they call it low lead.) When you shut down, push the RPM up some (1600), leave the throttle in that position, then pull the mixture to the cut off position. It will blow much of the molten lead out of the engine exhaust. You can also use ALCOR TCP fuel treatment if you can find it. We used that in our fuel. Do a search on Google and learn about it. It's small $ but when you consider wasting a cylinder to two, that's nothing. If you use it, you will see a difference. Be careful pulling plugs as often as your are (25-Hrs), use anti-seizure on the threads and use a calibrated torque wrench to tighten them with so you don't pull threads or crack a cylinder. I think if your use the TCP and the shut down process as I described above you will not need to pull the plugs every 25 hours. jerb


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:50:39 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
    Hello Dwight and Jerb: LEANING WHILE TAXING IS A VERY GOOD THING. You should lean so much that the engine almost dies. You will NEVER score the cylinders due to leaning. The reason being is your percent (%) of power is so extremely low - About 20 to 30% that there is minimal heat produces and almost NO load on the engine. NOW! The thing is to LEAN very aggressively so much so that if you forgot to push the throttle in for take off - The engine would die of fuel starvation second after being applied. Barry "Chop'd Liver" On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:41 PM, jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi Dwight, > Owned a 73-7ECA with a O-235 for a number of years. > First I would not go leaning the engine during taxi - your future is looking > at scored cylinders and Big $$$$. > Your problem is not carbon but lead from the 100 low lead aviation fuel. > (Never could figure out why they call it low lead.) > > When you shut down, push the RPM up some (1600), leave the throttle in that > position, then pull the mixture to the cut off position. It will blow much > of the molten lead out of the engine exhaust. > > You can also use ALCOR TCP fuel treatment if you can find it. We used that > in our fuel. Do a search on Google and learn about it. It's small $ but > when you consider wasting a cylinder to two, that's nothing. If you use it, > you will see a difference. Be careful pulling plugs as often as your are > (25-Hrs), use anti-seizure on the threads and use a calibrated torque wrench > to tighten them with so you don't pull threads or crack a cylinder. I think > if your use the TCP and the shut down process as I described above you will > not need to pull the plugs every 25 hours. > jerb > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:51:39 AM PST US
    From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    There is an idle jet adjustment on most carbs. The engine should be leaned on that jet while warm and at the idle so that you don't see any black puffs coming out of the exhaust. There is also an STC for burning unleaded fuel... not a good idea in the U.S. where most states won't allow the use of non ethanol gas. Ethanol should never be used for anything other than cleaning parts. Another problem with the STC is many insurance co. Don't like to insure aircraft on the STC. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye Sent: April 21, 2010 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? Noel (and Scott in another reply), Thanks for the input. The Decalin RunUp product looks interesting, but unfortunately they say right from the start : Decalin RunUp is not approved for use in the engines of certified aircraft ... So no good for the Citabria. That is a pity, because it sure seems to make sense. I'd love to install an oil filter, but honestly I'll not be a partner in this plane much longer because I'm getting fairly close to completing an RV-7. Also, my partners have not been all that excited when I brought up the idea of adding an aftermarket oil filter in the past. I'm glad to hear you think the mags might be a contributor to the problem, because that is something we already HAVE to change. :) Checking the primer is a good idea. I'll add that to the list of things to do. In some other google-driven research I've seen the following suggestions : * Idle at a higher RPM (1200 suggested) for better scavenging of the cylinder * Do a plug-clean style runup (2000RPM, and lean very agressively for a few moments) at the start and end of every flight. * Lean almost to the point of roughness for taxi (which we already do) * Shut down at a higher RPM (1200 suggested) than the usual 1000RPM to help avoid lead condensing out during the shutdown operation Tomorrow night I'm headed out to do a plug cleaning and confirm whether the latest rough running was lead or not. Given what we have experienced lately I'm sure it will prove to be the culprit. -- Dwight On Wed Apr 21 15:10:40 2010, Noel Loveys wrote : > > >My best guess is you are right in the mags getting a bit on the weak side. >I think this may be a place for a lead scavenger (Decathelon?). But I'd >start off with 1/10th the normal dosage and gradually increase it until the >lead fouling is reduced enough to give you the 25 hr between oil changes. > >You also may consider installing an oil filter. > >One other idea that was mentioned to me at one time was to add a detergent >to the oil about 1 hr before an oil change and be sure to drain the oil hot. >That will get out all the old sludge which may be part of your problem. > >One other thing I just thought of is the primer sometimes doesn't lock down >properly and causes the engine to run way too rich. Check the primer to >make sure it doesn't leak when locked down. > >Noel > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye >Sent: April 21, 2010 11:54 AM >To: engines-list@matronics.com >Subject: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? > > >I need some advice. This is an O-235 in an 1967 Citabria 7ECA, and >we (my partners and I) have owned for about three years. Since we >have an oil screen, and not a filter, we do an oil change every >25 hours. At that time we also clean the plugs, and do a bunch of >other random maintainence (check the battery, air in the tires, >etc.). > >In the first few years of ownership we would find lead in the plugs >and would clean it out at every oil change. But we never had it so >bad that a plug fouled out _completely_. They were just "dirty". In >the last year we have had a continually growing problem with the >plugs not just getting dirty, but fouling out to the point of not >firing. The last time this happened three of the four bottom plugs >were _packed_ with lead deposits. It was bad enough that I thought >I might have simply lost a mag, but it was (in the end) just the >nasty state of the plugs. > >One other piece of information is the age of our mags. We have Slick >mags, and they are getting close to the 800 hour mark. This is where >our A&P recommends they be replaced. Given that the mags are aging >I have _wondered_ if it is possible that they are gradually going >downhill and might be contributing to our fouling problem. Is that >possible? If not ..... does anyone have any insights as to why we >are having so much trouble? > >At this point we can't make it 25 hours without plugs fouling OUT on >us. We do lean agressively when we taxi, and (of course) lean in >flight. For taxi I lean to the ragged edge where if I were to apply >full power the engine would sag badly, so I know it is pretty darn >lean for ground ops. > >As a note, the plane goes in for annual in a month, and we are already >intending to replace mags/harness/plugs as a matter of course. But I >hate to keep battling continually fouling plugs for even another month >if I can avoid it. Opinions? Suggestions? Insights? > > -- Dwight > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:53:16 AM PST US
    From: "Noel Loveys" <noelloveys@yahoo.ca>
    Subject: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    When you speak of things like O rings and gaskets being eaten by gas I start to suspect something in the gas like Ethanol. One of the problems with MOGAS is there is not standard for the gas. Every company has their own recipe which usually changes with the seasons. Noel From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd Archer Sent: April 21, 2010 11:41 PM Subject: RE: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? Mogas is one of those things; I've had absolutely no problems with thousands of gallons run through an O-300. Maybe that's the difference and that's the only engine I've run with mogas. I bet fouling wasn't one of your problems? Todd I have previously run Mo-Gas in our Citabria back in early-mid 90's - 73-7ECA O-235. The results were this - increased maintenance on items which the gas touched - Fuel Cap seals more than once, fuel selector packing & o-rings, carb rebuild, as it began leaking. Money saved - none. jerb


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:41:31 AM PST US
    From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Barry, This is exactly what we do ... every time. In fact, at times I even have to richen a little just to _taxi_, since it is so lean that it becomes fuel-starved even with a slight application of throttle. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I'll be seeing the condition of the plugs here tonight. Bear in mind, our A&P cleaned the bottom ones just a two -weeks- ago. We probably don't have 5 hours on the plane since then. Tonight I'm pulling 'em all. -- Dwight On Thu Apr 22 09:33:10 2010, FLYaDIVE wrote : >Hello Dwight and Jerb: > >LEANING WHILE TAXING IS A VERY GOOD THING. > >You should lean so much that the engine almost dies. You will NEVER >score the cylinders due to leaning. The reason being is your percent >(%) of power is so extremely low - About 20 to 30% that there is >minimal heat produces and almost NO load on the engine. > >NOW! The thing is to LEAN very aggressively so much so that if you >forgot to push the throttle in for take off - The engine would die of >fuel starvation second after being applied. > >Barry >"Chop'd Liver"


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:39:16 AM PST US
    From: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Dwight, If your seeing that much of a lead problem in 5 hours, there is some thing wrong. I read some of your comments and we never taxied with mixture leaned out. I starting to wonder if what your doing is inducing more problems than it is solving. One thing that does help clear out the lead is on shut down leave your mixture in rich position, bring up the RPM 1500-1600, and pull the mixture. It will help. Other than that try some TCP additive. It does help. jerb At 07:05 AM 4/22/2010, you wrote: > >Barry, > >This is exactly what we do ... every time. In fact, at times I even >have to richen a little just to _taxi_, since it is so lean that it >becomes fuel-starved even with a slight application of throttle. > >Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I'll be seeing the condition >of the plugs here tonight. Bear in mind, our A&P cleaned the bottom >ones just a two -weeks- ago. We probably don't have 5 hours on the >plane since then. Tonight I'm pulling 'em all. > > -- Dwight > >On Thu Apr 22 09:33:10 2010, FLYaDIVE wrote : > >Hello Dwight and Jerb: > > > >LEANING WHILE TAXING IS A VERY GOOD THING. > > > >You should lean so much that the engine almost dies. You will NEVER > >score the cylinders due to leaning. The reason being is your percent > >(%) of power is so extremely low - About 20 to 30% that there is > >minimal heat produces and almost NO load on the engine. > > > >NOW! The thing is to LEAN very aggressively so much so that if you > >forgot to push the throttle in for take off - The engine would die of > >fuel starvation second after being applied. > > > >Barry > >"Chop'd Liver" >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:44:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    On 04/21/2010 05:29 PM, Dwight Frye wrote: > Thanks for the input. The Decalin RunUp product looks interesting, but > unfortunately they say right from the start : > > Decalin RunUp is not approved for use in the engines of > certified aircraft ... The certified "equivalent" is TCP Fuel Treatment, available from Aircraft Spruce: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php I used TCP in my Cessna 150 (O-200) to help address lead buildup problems, and when I moved to a Glasair with an O-320, I switched to Decalin RunUp. Both are good products, and both eliminated the lead buildup problems that I saw in both engines while running 100LL. Note that with TCP you'll need to buy a separate dispenser. The Decalin RunUp has the dispenser built-in to the container. -Dj -- Dj Merrill - N1JOV Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:48:38 AM PST US
    From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    I agree that something is wrong .. which is why I'm reaching out a bit. Frankly, I suspect our mags are failing but we won't know for sure until we swap them out in a month. One thing we have NOT been doing is bringing the RPM up before we shut down. I'm going to start doing that at a minimum because it makes a LOT of sense. -- Dwight On Thu Apr 22 11:34:02 2010, jerb wrote : >Dwight, >If your seeing that much of a lead problem in 5 hours, there is some >thing wrong. I read some of your comments and we never taxied with >mixture leaned out. I starting to wonder if what your doing is >inducing more problems than it is solving. One thing that does help >clear out the lead is on shut down leave your mixture in rich >position, bring up the RPM 1500-1600, and pull the mixture. It will >help. Other than that try some TCP additive. It does help. >jerb


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:49:17 AM PST US
    From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Dj, Excellent information. Thanks! Others have also suggested TCP so I'll see if I can track some down. -- Dwight On Thu Apr 22 11:43:26 2010, Dj Merrill wrote : >On 04/21/2010 05:29 PM, Dwight Frye wrote: > >> Thanks for the input. The Decalin RunUp product looks interesting, but >> unfortunately they say right from the start : >> >> Decalin RunUp is not approved for use in the engines of >> certified aircraft ... > > > The certified "equivalent" is TCP Fuel Treatment, available from >Aircraft Spruce: >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php > > I used TCP in my Cessna 150 (O-200) to help address lead buildup >problems, and when I moved to a Glasair with an O-320, I switched to >Decalin RunUp. Both are good products, and both eliminated the lead >buildup problems that I saw in both engines while running 100LL. > > Note that with TCP you'll need to buy a separate dispenser. The >Decalin RunUp has the dispenser built-in to the container. > >-Dj > >-- >Dj Merrill - N1JOV >Glastar Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/ >Grumman Yankee Driver N9870L - http://deej.net/yankee/


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:20:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive@gmail.com>
    Oh, Dwight: The shut down procedure offered by Jerb is available and a bit more complete on Lycomming's web site. The only issue I have with Lycomming's procedure is it is being done at SHUT-DOWN and not prior to take-off. When you consider leaning and if done properly during flight the % of Power and proper leaning should burn off lead deposits. Also, their is a small issue of running the engine and components under the hood HOT and then shutting down. It is known as HEATSOAKING. And this is a controversial issue. Me personally - Why do it. I would suggest use the procedure prior ro take-off. Barry "Chop'd Liver" On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:41 PM, jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote: > > Hi Dwight, > Owned a 73-7ECA with a O-235 for a number of years. > First I would not go leaning the engine during taxi - your future is looking > at scored cylinders and Big $$$$. > Your problem is not carbon but lead from the 100 low lead aviation fuel. > (Never could figure out why they call it low lead.) > > When you shut down, push the RPM up some (1600), leave the throttle in that > position, then pull the mixture to the cut off position. It will blow much > of the molten lead out of the engine exhaust. > > You can also use ALCOR TCP fuel treatment if you can find it. We used that > in our fuel. Do a search on Google and learn about it. It's small $ but > when you consider wasting a cylinder to two, that's nothing. If you use it, > you will see a difference. Be careful pulling plugs as often as your are > (25-Hrs), use anti-seizure on the threads and use a calibrated torque wrench > to tighten them with so you don't pull threads or crack a cylinder. I think > if your use the TCP and the shut down process as I described above you will > not need to pull the plugs every 25 hours. > jerb > >


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:32:58 PM PST US
    From: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Dwight, I don't feel the mag's are the problem. There has been an established issue with problem of the amount of lead in 100LL and plug fouling. When you return from a flight after taxiing to the parking area follow through with the shut method I suggested. Be aware of what's behind you when you increase your RPM as a good fellow pilot always do. I think doing this and using some TCP will significantly reduce your plug fouling problem. Also when your reinstalling the cowling do your have any problem reconnecting the rubber boot between the carb and the air filter outlet. I may have a cure for that also. jerb At 11:47 AM 4/22/2010, you wrote: > >I agree that something is wrong .. which is why I'm reaching out a >bit. Frankly, I suspect our mags are failing but we won't know for >sure until we swap them out in a month. > >One thing we have NOT been doing is bringing the RPM up before we >shut down. I'm going to start doing that at a minimum because it >makes a LOT of sense. > > -- Dwight


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:43:12 PM PST US
    From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Jerb, Reinstalling the rubber boot is a total pain in the ass, but we manage. What is your solution? -- Dwight On Thu Apr 22 21:25:49 2010, jerb wrote : > > >Dwight, >I don't feel the mag's are the problem. There has been an >established issue with problem of the amount of lead in 100LL and >plug fouling. When you return from a flight after taxiing to the >parking area follow through with the shut method I suggested. Be >aware of what's behind you when you increase your RPM as a good >fellow pilot always do. I think doing this and using some TCP will >significantly reduce your plug fouling problem. Also when your >reinstalling the cowling do your have any problem reconnecting the >rubber boot between the carb and the air filter outlet. I may have a >cure for that also. >jerb > >At 11:47 AM 4/22/2010, you wrote: >> >>I agree that something is wrong .. which is why I'm reaching out a >>bit. Frankly, I suspect our mags are failing but we won't know for >>sure until we swap them out in a month. >> >>One thing we have NOT been doing is bringing the RPM up before we >>shut down. I'm going to start doing that at a minimum because it >>makes a LOT of sense. >> >> -- Dwight > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:52:12 PM PST US
    From: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    Dwight, The suggestion of leaning in flight as a solution to the lead fouling needs to be done with care, you can waste cylinder(s) real easy if your not paying attention. As to the comment below by Barry regarding shutting down hot, your only briefly running up the engine up at partial power, besides it's already cooling down from taxi in to the ramp. Why would you do a shut down procedure before takeoff? He obviously does not have enough practical experience with the type, on the other hand I do. The shut down procedure is to get molten lead to blow out of the engine exhaust go it doesn't build up and collect in the lower spark plugs upon shutting the engine down. jerb At 01:18 PM 4/22/2010, you wrote: > >Oh, Dwight: > >The shut down procedure offered by Jerb is available and a bit more >complete on Lycomming's web site. > >The only issue I have with Lycomming's procedure is it is being done >at SHUT-DOWN and not prior to take-off. When you consider leaning and >if done properly during flight the % of Power and proper leaning >should burn off lead deposits. Also, their is a small issue of >running the engine and components under the hood HOT and then shutting >down. It is known as HEATSOAKING. And this is a controversial issue. > Me personally - Why do it. >I would suggest use the procedure prior ro take-off. > >Barry >"Chop'd Liver" > >On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 7:41 PM, jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Dwight, > > Owned a 73-7ECA with a O-235 for a number of years. > > First I would not go leaning the engine during taxi - your future > is looking > > at scored cylinders and Big $$$$. > > Your problem is not carbon but lead from the 100 low lead aviation fuel. > > (Never could figure out why they call it low lead.) > > > > When you shut down, push the RPM up some (1600), leave the > throttle in that > > position, then pull the mixture to the cut off position. It will blow much > > of the molten lead out of the engine exhaust. > > > > You can also use ALCOR TCP fuel treatment if you can find it. We used that > > in our fuel. Do a search on Google and learn about it. It's small $ but > > when you consider wasting a cylinder to two, that's nothing. If > you use it, > > you will see a difference. Be careful pulling plugs as often as your are > > (25-Hrs), use anti-seizure on the threads and use a calibrated > torque wrench > > to tighten them with so you don't pull threads or crack a > cylinder. I think > > if your use the TCP and the shut down process as I described above you will > > not need to pull the plugs every 25 hours. > > jerb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:34:06 PM PST US
    From: "Jim Aitken" <matrix02@shaw.ca>
    Subject: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    You are running your engine too slow. Open the throttle and leave it wide open at a minimum of 2450 rpm. This is a common problem with small Lycomings, they have to work, I have seen it several time. Jim Jim Aitken, P. Eng Matrix Engineering Services 109 Westchester Drive Winnipeg, Manitoba R3P 2G2 Canada Tel: 204-801-8014 email: matrix02@shaw.ca _____ From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of scott bilinski Sent: April 21, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? Here you go....... http://www.decalinchemicals.com/fueladditive.html Scott RV-8a _____ From: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org> Sent: Wed, April 21, 2010 7:23:53 AM Subject: Engines-List: O-235 Plug Fouling? I need some advice. This is an O-235 in an 1967 Citabria 7ECA, and we (my partners and I) have owned for about three years. Since we have an oil screen, and not a filter, we do an oil change every 25 hours. At that time we also clean the plugs, and do a bunch of other random maintainence (check the battery, air in the tires, etc.). In the first few years of ownership we would find lead in the plugs and would clean it out at every oil change. But we never had it so bad that a plug fouled out _completely_. They were just "dirty". In the last year we have had a continually growing problem with the plugs not just getting dirty, but fouling out to the point of not firing. The last time this happened three of the four bottom plugs were _packed_ with lead deposits. It was bad enough that I thought I might have simply lost a mag, but it was (in the end) just the nasty state of the plugs. One other piece of information is the age of our mags. We have Slick mags, and they are getting close to the 800 hour mark. This is where our A&P recommends they be replaced. Given that the mags are aging I have _wondered_ if it is possible that they are gradually going downhill and might be contributing to our fouling problem. Is that possible? If not ..... does anyone have any insights as to why we are having so much trouble? At this point we can't make it 25 hours without plugs fouling OUT on us. We do lean agressively when we taxi, and (of course) lean in flight. For taxi I lean to the ragged edge where if I were to apply full power the engine would sag badly, so I know it is pretty darn lean for ground ops. As a note, the plane goes in for annual in a month, and we are already intending to replace mags/harness/plugs as a matter of course. But I hate to keep battling continually fouling plugs for even another month if I can avoid it. Opinions? Suggestions? Insights?


    Message 15


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    Time: 08:08:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: O-235 Plug Fouling?
    From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2@gmail.com>
    Lets see, you are against leaning on taxiing, and in flight, but you think running significant power to get the cylinders unevenly hot with no air movement before cutting the power is good. No wonder you see scored cylinders. Leaning IS the key to preventing lead and carbon fouling. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:34 AM, jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net> wrote: > > Dwight, > If your seeing that much of a lead problem in 5 hours, there is some thing > wrong. I read some of your comments and we never taxied with mixture > leaned out. I starting to wonder if what your doing is inducing more > problems than it is solving. One thing that does help clear out the lead is > on shut down leave your mixture in rich position, bring up the RPM > 1500-1600, and pull the mixture. It will help. Other than that try some > TCP additive. It does help. > jerb > > > At 07:05 AM 4/22/2010, you wrote: >> >> >> Barry, >> >> This is exactly what we do ... every time. In fact, at times I even >> have to richen a little just to _taxi_, since it is so lean that it >> becomes fuel-starved even with a slight application of throttle. >> >> Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I'll be seeing the condition >> of the plugs here tonight. Bear in mind, our A&P cleaned the bottom >> ones just a two -weeks- ago. We probably don't have 5 hours on the >> plane since then. Tonight I'm pulling 'em all. >> >> -- Dwight >> >> On Thu Apr 22 09:33:10 2010, FLYaDIVE wrote : >> >Hello Dwight and Jerb: >> > >> >LEANING WHILE TAXING IS A VERY GOOD THING. >> > >> >You should lean so much that the engine almost dies. You will NEVER >> >score the cylinders due to leaning. The reason being is your percent >> >(%) of power is so extremely low - About 20 to 30% that there is >> >minimal heat produces and almost NO load on the engine. >> > >> >NOW! The thing is to LEAN very aggressively so much so that if you >> >forgot to push the throttle in for take off - The engine would die of >> >fuel starvation second after being applied. >> > >> >Barry >> >"Chop'd Liver" >> > >




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