---------------------------------------------------------- Engines-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/18/11: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:39 AM - Re: Oil Filters (Doug Dodson) 2. 07:38 PM - Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/17/11 (Speedy11@aol.com) 3. 10:05 PM - Re: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/17/11 (Doug Dodson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:51 AM PST US From: "Doug Dodson" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Oil Filters I also do oil analysis at every oil change. I stopped cutting the filters unless there is something up in the analysis. I save the old filter until I get the analysis back. Doug Dodson Glasair II-S FT Flight Test Engineer, CFI-A/S&MEL/I/G _____ From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dave schultz Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:02 PM Subject: Re: Engines-List: Oil Filters for a continental e-225 in my '52 c 35 bonanza, prevented a catastrophic engine failure by sending off oil sample and cutting open the filter with each oil change. the scavenge pump in the accessory case began to fail - saw grey smudge and very small particles on the magnet. waited for analysis results to come back (week) before flying, and sure enuff, a jump in iron (impellor) and aluminum (pump casing) and copper (shaft bushing/bearing) and .... since it was the scavenge pump side of the oil pump, only the slightest decrease over time in oil pressure (two pumps in accessory case), so not really observable by instrument. so instead of losing an engine or numerous parts therein (like the crank!), I only had to replace the oil pumps for about $2500; all other parts salvageable / overhaul - able. for the little time and money involved (every 33 hrs), it's not even a little bit worth not doing the whole nine yards, let alone the piece of mind. if sample taken correctly, oil analysis very sensitive to anything compared to visual inspect. for example, you'll be able to see if your air filter is failing (step up in silicon from the sand in the air). r/s -------------------------------------------------- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: Engines-List: Oil Filters > > Hello Listers: > > My RV-6A has been flying for a couple years now and since I have the > repairman's certificate I've been doing the annuals and maintenance. My > question is on cutting open the oil filter after an oil change. Since I've > never owned an airplane before much less maintained one this exercise has me > wondering: > > After the first few oil changes on a new/overhauled engine, do you keep > cutting open the filters and inspecting the element? > > Or is inspecting the element not as important as the first hours after break > in? > > Those of you that do cut open every oil filter at every oil change, do you > ever see fine particles in the filter element? > > If yes, how often do see these particles? > > What color are the particles? > > How large would the particles have to be to be of concern? > > How many folks do oil analysis in addition to cutting open the filter? > > If the oil analysis says no problem but there are a small amount of fine > particles in the filter do you continue to fly? > > If you have fine particles in the filter would you take them to your local > mechanic and have him/her look them over? Or??? > > I'm curious, I've done lots of work on cars but never cut open the filters > before so I don't know if fine particles would be present at every change. > I don't want to be paranoid about this but if a problem can be caught > earlier by cutting open the filter EVERY TIME then I want to be sure to > continue doing that. Thanks. > > Dean Psiropoulos > Flying fun for 2+ years now > > > ========== > Engines-List Un/Subscription, > --> ========== > bsp; via the ========== > bsp; - generous support! > bsp; http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:24 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/17/11 Dean, As Dave mentioned, it is good cautionary technique to do an oil sample analysis at each oil change. Having said that, during ownership of nine airplanes, I have never had an oil analysis. I've changed the oil and filter and pressed on. Was I just lucky? Maybe. Ask other aircraft owners, OBAM or certificated, if they do an oil analysis at each change. I believe you will find very few who do. Are they just lucky? Maybe. Regards, Stan Sutterfield PS - I have an ADC oil filter on my RV-8A so I pull the stainless filter and clean it each time. I have found only a few TINY bits of metal in the oil and only minor bits of other "gunk." I'm using Exxon Elite which is a semi-synthetic oil. Oh - the purists will go nuts over that! In a message dated 1/18/2011 3:05:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, engines-list@matronics.com writes: My RV-6A has been flying for a couple years now and since I have the repairman's certificate I've been doing the annuals and maintenance. My question is on cutting open the oil filter after an oil change. Since I've never owned an airplane before much less maintained one this exercise has me wondering: After the first few oil changes on a new/overhauled engine, do you keep cutting open the filters and inspecting the element? Or is inspecting the element not as important as the first hours after break in? Those of you that do cut open every oil filter at every oil change, do you ever see fine particles in the filter element? If yes, how often do see these particles? What color are the particles? How large would the particles have to be to be of concern? How many folks do oil analysis in addition to cutting open the filter? If the oil analysis says no problem but there are a small amount of fine particles in the filter do you continue to fly? If you have fine particles in the filter would you take them to your local mechanic and have him/her look them over? Or??? I'm curious, I've done lots of work on cars but never cut open the filters before so I don't know if fine particles would be present at every change. I don't want to be paranoid about this but if a problem can be caught earlier by cutting open the filter EVERY TIME then I want to be sure to continue doing that. Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:09 PM PST US From: "Doug Dodson" Subject: RE: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/17/11 That technique is based on anecdotal evidence at best. The term "cautionary" begs the question. You can do what everyone else does, same as the lemming. Good science is nice, good engineering is even better. Both require data (or evidence) to in order to follow accepted practice. Price out for yourself an oil analysis. Familiarize yourself with the credentials and writings of Mike Busch. Price out an overhaul, then price out an accident that almost totals the aircraft (assuming you have insurance). Balance the costs versus the benefits. I have not even asked you to include an analysis of the cost for injury or death. Oil analysis can't prevent every bad thing, but knowledge is still power, and the price of this knowledge is less than that of 3 gallons of fuel. The science (or engineering) is well founded. - Doug _____ From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2011 7:32 PM Subject: Engines-List: Re: Engines-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 01/17/11 Dean, As Dave mentioned, it is good cautionary technique to do an oil sample analysis at each oil change. Having said that, during ownership of nine airplanes, I have never had an oil analysis. I've changed the oil and filter and pressed on. Was I just lucky? Maybe. Ask other aircraft owners, OBAM or certificated, if they do an oil analysis at each change. I believe you will find very few who do. Are they just lucky? Maybe. Regards, Stan Sutterfield PS - I have an ADC oil filter on my RV-8A so I pull the stainless filter and clean it each time. I have found only a few TINY bits of metal in the oil and only minor bits of other "gunk." I'm using Exxon Elite which is a semi-synthetic oil. Oh - the purists will go nuts over that! In a message dated 1/18/2011 3:05:24 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, engines-list@matronics.com writes: My RV-6A has been flying for a couple years now and since I have the repairman's certificate I've been doing the annuals and maintenance. My question is on cutting open the oil filter after an oil change. Since I've never owned an airplane before much less maintained one this exercise has me wondering: After the first few oil changes on a new/overhauled engine, do you keep cutting open the filters and inspecting the element? Or is inspecting the element not as important as the first hours after break in? Those of you that do cut open every oil filter at every oil change, do you ever see fine particles in the filter element? If yes, how often do see these particles? What color are the particles? How large would the particles have to be to be of concern? How many folks do oil analysis in addition to cutting open the filter? If the oil analysis says no problem but there are a small amount of fine particles in the filter do you continue to fly? If you have fine particles in the filter would you take them to your local mechanic and have him/her look them over? Or??? I'm curious, I've done lots of work on cars but never cut open the filters before so I don't know if fine particles would be present at every change. I don't want to be paranoid about this but if a problem can be caught earlier by cutting open the filter EVERY TIME then I want to be sure to continue doing that. Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message engines-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Engines-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/engines-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/engines-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.