---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 02/03/03: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:19 AM - Re: Test message - please ignore (R.C.Harrison) 2. 02:58 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/02/03 (Graham Singleton) 3. 03:29 AM - Re: Test message - please ignore (Kevin Taylor) 4. 09:38 AM - Tacho wiring? (Richard) 5. 05:07 PM - Footwell length difference? (Peter Zutrauen) 6. 05:14 PM - Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 7. 06:08 PM - Re: Footwell length difference? (Steve Hagar) 8. 06:56 PM - Re: Footwell length difference? (Peter Zutrauen) 9. 07:22 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (craig ellison) 10. 08:01 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (kbcarpenter@comcast.net) 11. 08:05 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Cliff Shaw) 12. 08:12 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (clevelee@cswebmail.com) 13. 09:58 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (craig ellison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:19:29 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All. Just to prove I'm on the list ? I guess you'd better ignore this too. Sad times we live in for many reasons. I had difficulty remembering the "regulations" with the Avnet Europa Forum so I'm expecting some confrontations here, BTW what's this about "contributions" ? It's not a word I'm familiar with! Charity begins at home! Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:58:49 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 02/02/03 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 02/02/2003 -0800, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" > > > >>>They'll fix it, ...... > >Or maybe not as the case may be! Looks like the US list is about to get >a lot of new members. > >One wonders about the abilities at Avnet if they can't fix and restore a >list server in a few hours. At least we won't have to worry about that >issue again. > >Tony I sense it's more a matter of attitude than ability. PLease note my new email address guys. Tried to persuade my address book to email everyone and failed. Old lady Eudora is having an off day! Graham --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:28 AM PST US From: "Kevin Taylor" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" I'm here too and have been all the time! Bob "contributions" are a little like "hangerage" then again you don't partake in that either ;-) Kev T -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! All. Just to prove I'm on the list ? I guess you'd better ignore this too. Sad times we live in for many reasons. I had difficulty remembering the "regulations" with the Avnet Europa Forum so I'm expecting some confrontations here, BTW what's this about "contributions" ? It's not a word I'm familiar with! Charity begins at home! Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Test message - please ignore --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:39 AM PST US From: "Richard" Subject: Europa-List: Tacho wiring? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" Hello the new forum! Can anyone advise me which wire goes where when connecting up the tacho on a 912S? There are three terminals on the back:- 1+, 2-, and 3. There are two wires coming from the engine, white/yellow & blue/yellow. Neither the Rotax manual nor the factory wiring diagramme are very clear as to what goes where. Cheers, Richard Iddon. G-RIXS (XS tri builder no 533) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:38 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" Hi Listers, OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than the port-side footwell? Cheers & thanks, Pete A239 dual-wing ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:34 PM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings to the new forum host. I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't go "home". I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2 bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory. My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do about it? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:26 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Peter: The starboard footwell is not shorter than the port side footwell. The port side footwell is longer than the starboard. This was an XS model update along with the narrowing of the console area to give the pilot more room. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa, AZ > [Original Message] > From: Peter Zutrauen > To: Europa Email List > Date: 2/3/03 6:06:26 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" > > > Hi Listers, > > OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than > the port-side footwell? > > Cheers & thanks, > Pete > A239 dual-wing > > > > > --- Steve Hagar --- hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:39 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" Aha! That's what I thought I had heard .... seems silly though that they did not do the same footwell stretch on both - unless there is a reason such as needing the room for the rotax bits etc.. Oh well, good thing my wife is shorter than me - but if my son and daughter keep growing at their current rate, I'll have to give them the left seat! ;-) Cheers & thanks Pete A239 Ottawa, Canada -----Original Message----- From: Steve Hagar [mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Peter: The starboard footwell is not shorter than the port side footwell. The port side footwell is longer than the starboard. This was an XS model update along with the narrowing of the console area to give the pilot more room. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa, AZ > [Original Message] > From: Peter Zutrauen > To: Europa Email List > Date: 2/3/03 6:06:26 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Footwell length difference? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" > > > Hi Listers, > > OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than > the port-side footwell? > > Cheers & thanks, > Pete > A239 dual-wing > > > > > --- Steve Hagar --- hagargs@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:31 PM PST US From: "craig ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" John, I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the pins. Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know how many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time making this subject irrelevant. craig ellison a205 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > > Greetings to the new forum host. > > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't > go "home". > > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2 > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory. > > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do > about it? > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:42 PM PST US From: kbcarpenter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: kbcarpenter@comcast.net I leave my wings rigged all the time. The pins are hard to remove but I am waiting a while before probably smoothing the pins with Brillo. I think with use they will loosen some. I am at 88 hours now. Ken Carpenter N9XS A123 ----- Original Message ----- From: "craig ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" > > John, > > I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little > tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By > lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the pins. > Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the > fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more > adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know how > many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time > making this subject irrelevant. > > craig ellison > a205 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > > > > Greetings to the new forum host. > > > > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for > > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the > > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very > tight > > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo > is > > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and > the > > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, > won't > > go "home". > > > > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2 > > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence > with > > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment > I'm > > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit > > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit > > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory. > > > > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with > > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do > > about it? > > > > John Lawton > > Dunlap, TN > > A-245 > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:03 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Craig and John I have had the same tight fit on two kits. ( Bob Jacobsen's and mine) I found part of the trouble was a very thin layer of epoxy inside the busses in the wings. The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is just paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it out. It is not easy to see. After that I still having a "devil" of a time getting the wings on and off. I used a 1/2" reamer to true up the three busses at one time. Don't do this till after the wings are set to the Fuselage and the lift pins are installed. You will have to use a vicegrip on your 1/2" bolts for a while. (save the regular pins till after it all fits good) Hope this helps. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds WA 98020 (425) 776-5555 N229WC "Wile E Coyote" PS: Glad to see Europa talk again ! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:20 PM PST US From: clevelee@cswebmail.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: clevelee@cswebmail.com I applied some grease to the pins, and found that having a helper wiggle the wing helps. My pins are tight, but comfortably so, considering that they will come in and out over many years. Cleve Lee A198 Mono XS Jabiru 3300 Detroit, MI TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > > Greetings to the new forum host. > > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't > go "home". > > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2 > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory. > > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do > about it? > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 > > href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/subscription">http://www.matronics.com/subscription href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm">http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/search">http://www.matronics.com/search href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list">http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list">http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/archives">http://www.matronics.com/archives href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/photoshare">http://www.matronics.com/photoshare href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/europa-list">http://www.matronics.com/europa-list href="http://mail.cswebmail.com/jump/http://www.matronics.com/emaillists">http://www.matronics.com/emaillists The ALL NEW CS2000 from CompuServe Better! Faster! More Powerful! 250 FREE hours! Sign-on Now! http://www.compuserve.com/trycsrv/cs2000/webmail/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:20 PM PST US From: "craig ellison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" Cliff, I'm glad to hear others have had to use vicegrips to remove the pins. I'll check into the spar busses/epoxy on mine and maybe try the 1/2" reamer next time I have the wings on the fuselage. thanks, craig ellison a205 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > Craig and John > > I have had the same tight fit on two kits. ( Bob Jacobsen's and mine) I > found part of the trouble was a very thin layer of epoxy inside the busses > in the wings. The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is just > paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it out. > It is not easy to see. After that I still having a "devil" of a time > getting the wings on and off. I used a 1/2" reamer to true up the three > busses at one time. Don't do this till after the wings are set to the > Fuselage and the lift pins are installed. You will have to use a vicegrip > on your 1/2" bolts for a while. (save the regular pins till after it all > fits good) > > Hope this helps. > > Cliff Shaw > 1041 Euclid ave. > Edmonds WA 98020 > (425) 776-5555 > N229WC "Wile E Coyote" > PS: Glad to see Europa talk again ! > >