Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Tight Wing Spar Pins. (R.C.Harrison)
2. 02:10 AM - New e-mail address (Nigel Charles)
3. 02:10 AM - Europa Club Outrigger Mod (Nigel Charles)
4. 02:42 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (david joyce)
5. 03:17 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (R.C.Harrison)
6. 05:26 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (KARL HEINDL)
7. 08:34 AM - Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
8. 09:16 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Rob Housman)
9. 09:41 AM - cabin heating and ventilation (hedley brown)
10. 10:02 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Peter Zutrauen)
11. 10:21 AM - New purchase of monowheel kit (Ron Parigoris)
12. 10:37 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Terry Seaver)
13. 10:53 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg)
14. 11:08 AM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com)
15. 11:13 AM - SV: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
16. 12:17 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (R.C.Harrison)
17. 12:34 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Rob Housman)
18. 12:41 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Ron Parigoris)
19. 12:42 PM - Re: Footwell length difference? (McFadyean)
20. 12:43 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (McFadyean)
21. 01:55 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (craig ellison)
22. 02:14 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Ron Parigoris)
23. 02:21 PM - Share a Florida to NY trip with truck? (Ron Parigoris)
24. 03:08 PM - Re: New purchase of monowheel kit (DJA727@aol.com)
25. 03:08 PM - Re: New purchase of monowheel kit (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
26. 04:20 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wings to cockpit module SOLVED! (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
27. 04:30 PM - Andair Fuel Selector Extensions (Tony Renshaw)
28. 04:32 PM - Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module (Kesterton, Donald)
29. 05:27 PM - Re: New purchase of monowheel kit (John & Paddy Wigney)
30. 07:14 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Selector Extensions (Steve Hagar)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Tight Wing Spar Pins. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Guys,
It's good to see info' flowing again abeit due to your problems .
My wing pins are still quite tight , 300 hours and rigged almost every
flight except Continental. They became a little easier after fitting the
upgrade to 1/2" pins with two pip pins. I think the removal of the old 3/8"
pins gave a little "slop" in the seat back bushes before final alignment and
reduxing into place with the a/c fully assembled. However I still have to
insert the pins in a particular sequence . ( rear lift pin starboard side,
rear lift pin port side, starboard side spar pin , then finally port side
spar pin.) Any other combination and it won't rig! Also I use a rubber
mallet and plenty of grease and if someone is helping I get them to hold
each wing tip backward to engage the rear lift pins and forwards to insert
the spar pins. Pulling out with the pip pin handles is no problem by hand.
There's two areas of likely problem IMHO! :-
a) the spar ends are very slightly malformed and can just be fouling on the
sockets when "right home". I very slightly radiused the ends of mine.
b) the wing root fairings on the sides of the fuselage need very carefull
inspection to be clear .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
Message 2
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| Subject: | New e-mail address |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Having just changed to this new forum I have also changed my e-mail address. Although
my Compuserve address will be operational for a few more months anyone
wishing to contact me in future should use nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk.
Nigel Charles
Europa Club Mods Representative
Message 3
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| Subject: | Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
I have had a lot of interest about the Europa Club Outrigger mod and have obtained
some lengths of the stainless tube for other monowheel owners as it has proved
difficult to obtain. This initial stock has now been exhausted. Although
this tube is available by mail order in the USA ordering just 4" of tube for international
mailing is not very practical. As I shall be returning to the USA
in March and will have a mail pickup opportunity in JFK I am prepared to get
some more tube for those who missed out on the last order. Also as the mod requires
some 4130 steel tube, washers, nuts and grease nipples I am also prepared
to obtain these to enable me to supply monowheel owners with a kit of parts
for the mod. Anyone interested in taking advantage of this should send me an e-mail,
stating whether they require just the stainless tube or the whole kit.
This should be done by the end of February when I shall place the order. The cost
will be about =A33 for the tube or =A36 for the kit. I will be able to accept
orders from elsewhere in Europe in either =A3's or Euro's (cash or cheque)
provided the mailing costs are paid. If USA owners wish to order from me I can
mail the parts on each visit to the USA (about once or twice per month). In
this case if the above currencies are not practical cash payment in $'s would
be acceptable. For =A33 assume $5 or Euro's and for =A36 assume $10 or Euro's.
Exact cost will be confirmed on placement of order. I will get a few extra sets
of parts to allow for late orders but ordering by the end of February will
avoid disappointment.
This is a club mod and is only available to club members. However the membership
subscription is hardly expensive and there are other mods available as well
as other membership benefits including a quarterly magazine. The club also represents
Europa builders/owners with frequent discussions with the factory and
the PFA. Supporting this with your membership is in everyone's interest.
As many will just be in the process of changing to this forum I will be posting
this message again later this month to ensure all those interested get an opportunity
to place an order.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Europa Club Mods Representative
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi!
Just my penny worth to Davids message re- "applying heat"
If you use a piece of copper rod to fit the bushes and heat it at one end it
will get heat right down the bushes instantly to enable them to be removed
without spreading heat elsewhere.
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of david joyce
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
I had the same problem and asked Neville at Europa for a fix.
He suggested to grind a little off the shoulder at the end of
the pin. This helped a lot. I also put a slight chamfer on the
spar bushes. It is still a tight fit and I have to use a hammer
with a piece of wood to tap it in.
I have made removal a lot easier by pushing a piece of rubber
oil hose onto the existing handle, thus I can use all fingers
for a strong pull.
Hope that helps, Karl Heindl
>From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:13:42 EST
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
>Greetings to the new forum host.
>
>I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
>bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
>cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
>tight
>fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
>is
>extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
>the
>cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
>go "home".
>
>I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
>bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
>with
>the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
>experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
>module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
>module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
>My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
>loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
>about it?
>
>John Lawton
>Dunlap, TN
>A-245
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Thanks to all for the responses.
I'm wondering if it's possible to heat the bush, mount the wings and tap the
bolt through while the bush is hot and the Redux plyable thereby "reseating"
it. Since I'm very close to fitting, and since I've already installed the
plywood pads on the seat back around the bushes making removal very
difficult, this might work. Will the Redux adversely react to this sort of
treatment?
BTW, who is the engineering contact at the factory for such questions?
Thanks in advance
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (Matthew's Field, future site of a Europa Fly-In as soon as mine
flys)
A-245
Message 8
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Although it is possible to do as you suggest the epoxy is not a
thermoplastic material but a thermosetting one, which in even more technical
terms is a cross linked polymer - heating to soften the cured epoxy will
break some of these cross links and significantly degrade the epoxy's
properties. In short, don't do it.
I too have had the problem with getting the spar pins fitting properly and
have removed the bushings by drilling. I have yet to replace the bushings
(even in SoCal the "winter" temperature is too low for fast curing) but have
trial-fitted the wings and inserted the spar pins through (obviously
oversize) holes in the seat back and through the spars, so I am confident
that bonding the seat back bushings in place with the wings fitted will
(finally) get things lined up correctly.
As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
invisible epoxy deposited on the ID, and the factory's dummy spar (of which
I have two - not identical) is not adequate for the job. There is
considerable excess epoxy on the spars, so much so that I could not get the
spar ends into the spar caps without a lot of sanding to remove the excess.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Thanks to all for the responses.
I'm wondering if it's possible to heat the bush, mount the wings and tap the
bolt through while the bush is hot and the Redux plyable thereby "reseating"
it. Since I'm very close to fitting, and since I've already installed the
plywood pads on the seat back around the bushes making removal very
difficult, this might work. Will the Redux adversely react to this sort of
treatment?
BTW, who is the engineering contact at the factory for such questions?
Thanks in advance
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN (Matthew's Field, future site of a Europa Fly-In as soon as mine
flys)
A-245
Message 9
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| Subject: | cabin heating and ventilation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "hedley brown" <hedley@hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
G-IMAB seems to run at too low a temperature in this winter weather, and inside,
we get very cold but the windows steam up. Being a cold-blooded individual,
I have not installed the naca ventilators as I don't want my knees or my kidneys
frozen.
So...I want to blank off some of the , already over-generous, radiator duct
at the back, and take a couple of pipes from behind the rearmost radiator the
short distance direct into the adjacent footwells. The ram effect of the throttled
rear of the radiator duct should force ample supplies of warm air into the
cab and the engine and the pilots should be comfortably warm.
My flying companion is uncomfortably cool about this proposition - he thinks
it would be a waste of time. What are the expert opinions of the Forum?
=01
Message 10
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Sorry, but a question from one who hasn't read that part of the manual yet:
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious, but how does the factory suggest to locate
and align the spar-pin bushing in the seatback if one is to _not_ use the actual
wings? I just can't see that dummy spar being acurate enough with the spar-bushings
being so tight. I would have assumed using the wings would be the
best way to do it. Are there any issues with using the wings for this process?
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
A239 dual wing.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Housman [mailto:RobH@hyperion-ef.com]
Sent: Tue 2/4/2003 12:15 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Cc:
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" RobH@hyperion-ef.com
.........snip....
, so I am confident
that bonding the seat back bushings in place with the wings fitted will
(finally) get things lined up correctly.
.....snip......
Message 11
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| Subject: | New purchase of monowheel kit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Europa-List
Have an order in for a monowheel A-265 from Lakeland FL with my partner
Wayne.
We are purchasing with accelerated tailfeather and cockpit. Will wait
for purchase of firewall fwd. Leaning towards the 914.
Primary use off paved and grass strips.
Any help or suggestions on decisions that we should be making now would
be greatly appriciated.
Options we are probably going to make:
Considering a 7:00 tire, is there an opinion as to make an 8:00 fit on
the build??
Purchase water Drains
Purchase Float type fuel guages
Install a Aileron trim servo
Purchase a standard thickness non bubble window solar gray with 2 hinged
vents
purchase speed kit
Thanks for any and all help/suggestions
Sincerly
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage Drive
Kings Park, NY 11754 USA
PS my partner Wayne is really into X-Plane. He has a 914 powered
Monowheel he put together. He is just about complete with it.
Anybody out there with over a hundred hours in a Europa and familiar
with X-Plane to critique it???
He can easily convert to "UNCONVENTIONAL Gear" and or "ABNORMALLY
Aspirated".
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
We had a similar problem, due to the dummy spar not being exactly the same as the
wing spars. We eventually tried a reamer, bad idea, too much slop when we went
back to check how much material was actually removed. We finally replaced all the
bushings. You would only need to reset one in the cockpit module (assuming you
haven't reamed yet). Remove the plywood reinforcing, insert one of the 1/2"
bolts into one of the bushes, then heat the bolt with an industrial strength heat
gun. Bond it back in with Redux, using both wings as a jig. That what we did.
regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion, won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg" <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
R.H. wrote
>As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
>invisible epoxy deposited on the ID
>
....and the bolts I got to use to fit the bushes have a smaller diameter
than the pins used for flight-
My bushes ended up close to two mm off, so I redid it, not a big thing
to do at any stage of build, it is now better and polishing the pins and
giving them a better lead-in chamfer helps a lot too along with a drop
of oil. I can now get them in with my bigish deadblow and out by hand
without getting hurt and without helpers...
It seems to me the cockpit module and the spar have different
coefficients of expansion or perhaps it is thermal lag, sometimes it is
a lot harder to rig than others.
Rob, you might enlighten us on the bushes, are they black anodised
aluminium and if so, when removing material from it does it not weaken
considerably?
Alex, kit 529
P.S. How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by:
Hi Craig and John.
I too had problems fitting the 1/2" bolts when mounting both wings. Starbord
bolt whent in OK, while port bolt was quite hard to insert - had to be
twisted (with wise-grip on bolt head) and pushed simultaneously. After a few
removals and re-insertions of wings it became slightly easier to insert the
bolt, but still a too tight fit. I'm planning to use grinding paste on the
bolt to further ease up things. (Must be thoroughly removed/washed away
before re-greasing)
Cheers,
Hans
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison"
<craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
>
> John,
>
> I too found the wing spar to cockpit module set-up quite tight( little
> tolerance). I ended up tapping the 1/2 inch bolts in with a hammer. By
> lifting or depressing the wing tips slightly I was able to unbind the
pins.
> Still not a slip in, slip out operation. When setting up the wings to the
> fuselage I had the same to problem . I suspect later there will be more
> adjustments made to allow ease of placement. I would be curious to know
how
> many US builders that are flying leave their planes rigged all the time
> making this subject irrelevant.
>
> craig ellison
> a205
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
> >
> > Greetings to the new forum host.
> >
> > I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep
for
> > bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to
the
> > cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
> tight
> > fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the
combo
> is
> > extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars
and
> the
> > cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
> won't
> > go "home".
> >
> > I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied
1/2
> > bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
> with
> > the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
> I'm
> > experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the
cockpit
> > module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> > module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
> >
> > My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> > loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you
do
> > about it?
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Dunlap, TN
> > A-245
> >
> >
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Pete,
"Are there any issues with using the wings for this process?"
None, as far as my experience (once only!) goes, except for space. My
workshop is not long enough, but I was able to "borrow" the living room and
adjacent hall two days for rigging the wings into the cockpit module (which
stands on its firewall-end on the floor during this operation, i.e. the wing
cords are vertical). The manual is VERY good on how to do everything,
step-by-step, and I was fortunate (considering recent postings on this
issue) that the bushings fit perfectly. Re-checked fitting the wings after
installing the flight controls and fuel tank in the cockpit module - can
insert and pull out the bolts with hands only, no tools required.
One very good advice was offered a couple of months ago on the Forum: When
you have the spars in the cockpit module, mark on the inside of the seat
back with a thick black felt pen along the upper and lower edge of the
overlapping spars, and measure the distance from inside the seat back to the
rear side of the starboard spar at several points and write these
measurements on the inside of the seat back. This will be a great help in
ensuring that none of the pieces you later fit inside the cockpit module
will interfere with the spars.
Regards
Svein K. Johnsen
A225 (now in Norway)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Hans.
IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not wash
out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
permanently. It sounds like you are nearly there.
Examine the spar ends with some "engineers blue" wiped into the sockets and
you'll get a witness mark left on the spar ends after rigging . Then you can
lightly relieve the offending part where it catches.
Then have a look closely at the wing close out fairings as to how tight they
are against the fuselage.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
-
Message 17
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
The spar bushings are black anodized aluminum :) but I removed them entirely
rather than ream to fit, which I had tried first, but it was necessary to
remove entirely too much material to make things go together. Removal of
any amount of material will likewise remove the surface treatment (anodize)
the real consequence of which will be to remove the harder aluminum oxide,
an abrasion resistant material. If so much aluminum is removed to affect
the strength of the bushing the fit would have been really bad!
The early North American kits were numbered in sequence with the UK (and
elsewhere) kits, but later kits that were shipped to the colonies are
identified with the "A" preceding a unique serial number sequence. For
example, Kim Prout's N111EU was S/N 111.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alexander P. de
C. Kaarsberg
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander P. de C. Kaarsberg"
<kaarsber@terra.com.br>
R.H. wrote
>As mentioned by others, the bushings in the wings are likely to have
>invisible epoxy deposited on the ID
>
<snip>
Rob, you might enlighten us on the bushes, are they black anodised
aluminium and if so, when removing material from it does it not weaken
considerably?
Alex, kit 529
P.S. How come some kits have an 'a' prefix to the s/n?
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
As far as lapping goes:
"IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not
wash
out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
permanently."
This is true with Diamond or real hard abrasive compounds.
www.mcmaster.com sells some lapping stuff that starts out as a lap, then
turns to polish then to nothing. I have used this sucessful lapping
aluminium on Cox 020 reedvalve racing motors. also works on steel. It
does not remove much before it ends its ability to cut.
Ron Parigoris
Message 19
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| Subject: | Footwell length difference? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: McFadyean <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Probably because the oil tank when mounted on the s'bd footwell wouldn't
have enough space otherwise (it would foul on the cowling if set any
further forward?).
Duncan McF
On Tuesday, February 04, 2003 1:06 AM, Peter Zutrauen
[SMTP:peterz@zutrasoft.com] wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen"
<peterz@zutrasoft.com>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> OK, here's a simple question: why is the starboard footwell shorter than
> the port-side footwell?
>
> Cheers & thanks,
> Pete
> A239 dual-wing
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: McFadyean <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
The 'black paint' is hard-anodising and will impart considerable
wear-resistance to the bushes. If scraped out, the bush life will be
reduced.
Duncan Mcf.
On Tuesday, February 04, 2003 4:06 AM, Cliff Shaw
[SMTP:flyinggpa@attbi.com] wrote:
<...................The busses are aluminum painted black ( I think it is
just
> paint). I used a hobby knife (sharp #11 blade) to pick and scrape it
out.
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Thanks for all the great responses concerning the spar pin/bushes not
fitting easily. I did use the wings for alignment and still ended up tight.
Ron do you have a name of the lapping compound you mentioned. I went to the
web page you gave and couldn't find it.
Thanks,
craig ellison
a205
silverton,or
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> As far as lapping goes:
>
>
> "IMHO. DON'T USE GRINDING PASTE. the bushes are alumimium and you'll not
> wash
> out the paste because grains of abrasive will embed in the bushes
> permanently."
>
> This is true with Diamond or real hard abrasive compounds.
>
> www.mcmaster.com sells some lapping stuff that starts out as a lap, then
> turns to polish then to nothing. I have used this sucessful lapping
> aluminium on Cox 020 reedvalve racing motors. also works on steel. It
> does not remove much before it ends its ability to cut.
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hey craig ellison
"Ron do you have a name of the lapping compound you mentioned."
Fron Cat. 108:
#4781A4 is for a 1 pound can for soft metals. it is $20.83
It is on page #2474
They also have some for Hard metals PN #4781A6
The page reads:
These compounds work like magic, they change from an abrasive to a
polish during use and then finally become inert. They're guarenteed not
to embed in any metal surface. Perfect for fitting and smoothing the
bearing or contact surface or rotating, ossolating and sliding parts.
Furnish as a powder to mix with oil. A thin machine oil (SAE 10 or 20)
or heavier gear oil can be used. compound does not contain harsh
abrasives.
Soft-Metal grade is for fitting bearings, brass valves, bronze fittings
and gears, and soft metal guides. Use on Babbit, Brass, Bronz and
Aluminium.
=======================================================================
Anyway i will be glad to send you some to give a try. I also have some
Lard cutting oil that is perfect for mixing.
Send me a self adressed postage paid box, with a 4 oz container that
won't leak for the oil, I will put the compound in a zip lock bag.
figure add additional 8 oz for contents.
send to:
Ron Parigoris
44 Carriage Drive
Kings Park NY 11754
Message 23
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| Subject: | Share a Florida to NY trip with truck? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Planning on renting a truck in Florida to pick up kit and deliver to NY
in near future.
Anyone else needing to do the same?
Ron Parigoris
Hm 631-979-7675
Wk 631-752-0184 (voice mail, I retrieve ofthe)
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
I would love to get my hands on that 914 X plane model. I have the program
and haven't had time to pursue it. Is your model directionally unstable as
the real thing in yaw?
Dave
A227
Mini U2
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
Serialize by Notes Client on Ira Rampil/UHMC(Release 5.0.10 |March 22,
2002) at
02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM,
S/MIME Sign failed at 02/04/2003 06:08:05 PM: The cryptographic key was
not
found,
Serialize by Router on nmta.cc.sunysb.edu/DoIT(Release 5.0.11 |July 24,
2002) at
02/04/2003 06:08:13 PM,
Serialize complete at 02/04/2003 06:08:13 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the list (again ;-) )
Perhaps when Wayne is done with the X model, he
could ask John Cliff to post it on the Europa Support web site
where many other pictures and binaries can be found
I'll be in Lakeland/Brandon/Seffner 2/15-23 to install my panel.
May be we can meet there?
Ira N224XS
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Trouble fitting wings to cockpit module SOLVED! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Thanks again to all forum folks for the input.
Today, with a little help from my girlfriend Susan, I was able to get both
pins in and the spar cups bonded. She wiggled the wing up and down, fore and
aft, while I lightly tapped the pins into place with a dead blow "calibration
mallet". It's tight, but no tighter than some sailplanes I've helped
assemble. I'm satisfied with the fit.
Anybody got any recommendations on electric fuel guages?
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
Message 27
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| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Hello,
> I was wondering if there is any opinion about the Andair Fuel Selector
> Extensions? Are they good and do they place the selector in a practical
> location not obstructed by other a/c structures? I would imagine it could
> come up under a hinged access panel that you rest your forearm on. Suffice
> to say I don't have easy access to my fuselage and cockpit module, so there
> might immediately be voices saying "no no" or, I hope the opposite.
> In anticipation, please.
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
Message 28
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| Subject: | Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kesterton, Donald" <Donald.Kesterton@logicacmg.com>
John
You could also try heating up a piece of 1/2 inch solid metal rod in your
vice away from the plane, then insert into the bush and allow heat
conduction to do the job for you. It directs the heat exactly where you
want it to go and the technique has worked for me in some other situations
e.g. like removing the old monowheel tail wheel.
Donald Kesterton
G-Pats No 216 Still Building
-----Original Message-----
From: david joyce [mailto:davidjoyce@beeb.net]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
--> Europa-List message posted by: "david joyce" <davidjoyce@beeb.net>
John, I think the dummy spar supplied now has changed but with my kit, no
402 the dummy spar changed dimension significantly on getting damp or drying
out and the consequence was that my wings would not rig even with the help
of a hammer! The solution (arrived at with the help of Andy Draper) is
however fairly simple. You can readily remove one of the cockpit module
bushes by applying heat to it and then bond it in again with the position
determined by a new dummy spar drilled to fit the wing spar bushes
precisely. To avoid melting the whole seat back I jammed a 1/2 inch metal
tube into the bush and blew hot air down it with a heat gun until the bush
became loose. David Joyce
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trouble fitting wing spars to cockpit module
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Greetings to the new forum host.
>
> I was working on fitting my wings to the cockpit module today in prep for
> bonding spar cups in place and I can't seem to get the wings to pin to the
> cockpit module. The wings will pin to each other, although it is a very
tight
> fit. Each wing individually will pin to the cockpit module, but the combo
is
> extremely tight. Either pin will go all the way in through both spars and
the
> cockpit mondule, but the other, regardless of direction of insertion,
won't
> go "home".
>
> I set the cockpit module bushes using the dummy spar and the supplied 1/2
> bolts. The holes for the bushes were already drilled and the tollerence
with
> the bush was tight, certainly not enough slop to cause the misalignment
I'm
> experiencing. The dummy spar also appears to fit the wings and the cockpit
> module perfectly in dry runs. The only thing I can figure is the cockpit
> module bush holes were slightly incorrectly set at the factory.
>
> My sailplane experience says not to ream the bushes lest ye wind up with
> loose fitting wings. Anybody else had this problem and if so what'd you do
> about it?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: New purchase of monowheel kit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
--> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hi Ron,
Welcome to the Europa gang. You have some good questions. Here are some
comments based on my limited experience of ~1 year and 120+ hours of fun
with my mono XS.
>Considering a 7:00 tire, is there an opinion as to make an 8:00 fit on
>the build??
>
I fitted a 7.00 x 6 McCreary Air Trac. Works fine on grass and tarmac,
no apparent wear after 200 + landings, most on tarmac. Not sure why you
would need the 8.00 size, it may give clearance problems. Also more weight.
>Purchase water Drains ?
>
Probably a good idea. I have them but have never seen water. Be aware
that small debris can get on the face of the O ring drain seals. This
can cause a very minor fuel weep which may stain your paint.
>Purchase Float type fuel guages ?
>
I use an EIS display with the flowmeter option which gives a very
accurate indication of fuel remaining and endurance. I also have two
capacitance tank gauges but non linear tank shape does not help accurate
indication. The Mod 60 level kit from the factory at $278.46 is probably
a good buy. Not sure that float gauges are a good idea.
>Install a Aileron trim servo ?
>
I should have put one in, I may get round to it.
>Purchase a standard thickness non bubble window solar gray with 2 hinged
>vents ?
>
I am 6 feet tall and the standard canopy is fine for me. If you want to
fly at night, you will probably be better off with clear. I have clear
and have fitted stick-on semi-opaque sun shields overhead (Jim Brown's
idea) which work very well. They are ~12 in. x 15 in., available from
WalMart auto accessories at <$5.00. Trade mark is "Avius Sun-Spot". Re
vents, I have seen some small aluminum articulated disc vents at
Flightcrafters but can't find reference. They looked very effective and
neat.
>purchase speed kit ?
>
Yes. Hey you want to go fast, right ?
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S, WhirlWind c/s prop
Mooresville, NC
Message 30
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| Subject: | Andair Fuel Selector Extensions |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Tony:
I used this setup on the XS that I am building. I initially flush mounted
the valve selector on top of the console just forward of the seat back.
However on further building revealed that the flap drive tube has to occupy
that space. My elegant fix was to manufacture a console glove box to sit
on top of the center console. The selector resides in the rearmost
position of it. You have a rest to put your right arm on and you don't
have the selector poking you in the elbow. With the glove box on top of
the console I have made a larger hole on the console top to allow me to get
my hand inside to do work on hoses cables etc. Its also good for inspection
items.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 2/4/03 5:30:15 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Andair Fuel Selector Extensions
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
>
> Hello,
> > I was wondering if there is any opinion about the Andair Fuel Selector
> > Extensions? Are they good and do they place the selector in a practical
> > location not obstructed by other a/c structures? I would imagine it
could
> > come up under a hinged access panel that you rest your forearm on.
Suffice
> > to say I don't have easy access to my fuselage and cockpit module, so
there
> > might immediately be voices saying "no no" or, I hope the opposite.
> > In anticipation, please.
> > Reg
> > Tony Renshaw
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
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