Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:11 AM - Re: Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in the UK (Ian Rickard)
2. 03:18 AM - Re: Europa Club Outrigger Mod (Nigel Charles)
3. 03:18 AM - Re: Long wing CG (Nigel Charles)
4. 04:06 AM - Re: Long wing CG (Nigel Charles)
5. 04:06 AM - Re: Long wing CG (Nigel Charles)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: Europa Club Outrigger Mod (craig ellison)
7. 08:57 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (craig ellison)
8. 01:52 PM - Motorglider CG (DJA727@aol.com)
9. 06:14 PM - Re: Motorglider CG (R.K. Hallett III)
10. 09:20 PM - Re: Minimum trim speed (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
11. 09:29 PM - Re: New purchase of monowheel kit (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
12. 10:52 PM - Re: Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in the UK (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in the |
UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ian Rickard" <ian.iicons@ntlworld.com>
I have been looking for Aerogrease 22 in the UK. As you say Light Aero has
it available but in a minimum quantity of 3Km at 90. The best source I can
see at the moment is A/C Spruce (Part No 08-05490). Tube for $16. I am
about to order some if no other source becomes available.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI
e-mail ian.iicons@ntlworld.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel
Charles
Subject: Europa-List: Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in
the UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Does anyone know a retail outlet in the UK for grease and sealant as
required for the Airmaster prop?
The 5 suitable grease types are listed in the Owner's Manual but I have yet
to find a retailer who stocks any of them in small quantities. Light Aero
want over =A390 for 3kg of Shell Aerogrease 22!!
With regards to the sealant (required for the blade root mod to prevent
water ingress) Andy Draper tells me that RS supply a suitable product (part
no. 494-102) but that Bostik (part no. 341-0977) is also suitable but much
cheaper. Yet again I have yet to find a retail outlet.
Nigel Charles
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
----- Original Message -----
From: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison"
<craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
>
> Nigel,
>
> For those of us that aren't Europa Club Members yet could we know some
more
> about the outrigger mod or do you have to be a member to find out that
info?
>
> craig
This mod overcomes two main problems with the outrigger pivot.
Firstly in its present form it is only a matter of time before wear makes it
sloppy (particularly if you fly from grass strips a lot). The factory
introduced a mod by providing replaceable inserts in the pivot support
plates. I know some owners who are already on their second set of these.
Also this does nothing to address the wear of the outrigger head which is an
aluminium casting. The club mod provides a pair of concentric tubes and a
grease nipple which enables regular greasing preventing wear.
Secondly it is possible to tighten the castellation nut too much which
results in the outrigger failing to lower fully. This can happen even after
having tested the retraction on the ground (aircraft supported of course).
This is because the air loading inflight adds to the resistance on lowering.
Sometimes during the flight testing of my Europa we found that one outrigger
only finally latched down when the speed was reduced on final approach.
Loosening the castellation nut by one flat cured this. As it happens I have
microswitches on my outriggers to give indications when
the gear is fully down ie. I look for 3 greens like any normal retractable
landing gear. The club mod replaces the castellation nut with a stiff nut
which can be tightened fully without clamping the outrigger.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Long wing CG |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Long wing CG
> The word is definitely that the CG is too far forward for the long wing.
That
> is what is flies like and that is what Europa found with their
demonstrator
> aircraft. One tidbit of information I gained from talking to Andy was that
if
> elevator authority is questionable, you can gain some authority by not
> trimming to the slow approach speed and holding some back pressure during
the
> approach instead. The trimming out of the speed causes you to lose some
> control authority. I reviewed my video tape from the cockpit and found
that
> the stick position was quite aft for the speed I was flying when touching
> down - main first slightly - too fast. I checked the trim system again and
> found all measurements to be in order. It looks as though if you are going
to
> fly both wings, you need to have a compromise CG to work with the 2 wings.
> Right now, I can say that 59.5 appears to be the forward limit for the
long
> wings, and may actually be 60.0 depending on what is considered an
acceptable
> flight characteristic.
>
> The CG has been adjusted to 60.5 for the next flight. I suspect it will be
> easier to plant the tailwheel on the ground with better pitch authority at
> the slower speeds.
>
> Baby steps!
>
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
Hi Dave
My empty Europa has a Cof G set at 60.63 which seems about perfect. It is
impossible to have too forward a Cof G and the only way to get it out the
aft limit is with full fuel, single pilot and full baggage. If this unusual
scenario is required it would be possible to strap a heavy part of the
baggage in position on the passenger seat. This aft Cof G setting is good
for efficiency in the cruise and helps controllability on take-off/landing
(for monowheel Europas) by placing more load on the tailwheel. Your setting
of 60.5 should be good.
For those still building the following suggestion might be helpful.
To ease setting the Cof G, positioning the battery is the best way unless
you wish to reduce your payload with ballast. To that end I would suggest
that the battery is not finally fixed in position until after the weight and
balance is done. An aft battery position is more likely if a VP prop is
used, a heavy panel is fitted or if the engine is heavier than the standard
Rotax. With the XS the engine was moved slightly further forward so is more
likely to need an aft battery mount than the 'Classic'. If an aft battery
position is required, fitting an external power connection is easily
achieved
with very little weight penalty.
Nigel Charles
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Long wing CG |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Long wing CG
> The word is definitely that the CG is too far forward for the long wing.
That
> is what is flies like and that is what Europa found with their
demonstrator
> aircraft. One tidbit of information I gained from talking to Andy was that
if
> elevator authority is questionable, you can gain some authority by not
> trimming to the slow approach speed and holding some back pressure during
the
> approach instead. The trimming out of the speed causes you to lose some
> control authority. I reviewed my video tape from the cockpit and found
that
> the stick position was quite aft for the speed I was flying when touching
> down - main first slightly - too fast. I checked the trim system again and
> found all measurements to be in order. It looks as though if you are going
to
> fly both wings, you need to have a compromise CG to work with the 2 wings.
> Right now, I can say that 59.5 appears to be the forward limit for the
long
> wings, and may actually be 60.0 depending on what is considered an
acceptable
> flight characteristic.
>
> The CG has been adjusted to 60.5 for the next flight. I suspect it will be
> easier to plant the tailwheel on the ground with better pitch authority at
> the slower speeds.
>
> Baby steps!
>
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
>
Hi Dave
My empty Europa has a Cof G set at 60.63 which seems about perfect. It is
impossible to have too forward a Cof G and the only way to get it out the
aft limit is with full fuel, single pilot and full baggage. If this unusual
scenario is required it would be possible to strap a heavy part of the
baggage in position on the passenger seat. This aft Cof G setting is good
for efficiency in the cruise and helps controllability on take-off/landing
(for monowheel Europas) by placing more load on the tailwheel. Your setting
of 60.5 should be good.
For those still building the following suggestion might be helpful.
To ease setting the Cof G, positioning the battery is the best way unless
you wish to reduce your payload with ballast. To that end I would suggest
that the battery is not finally fixed in position until after the weight and
balance is done. An aft battery position is more likely if a VP prop is
used, a heavy panel is fitted or if the engine is heavier than the standard
Rotax. With the XS the engine was moved slightly further forward so is more
likely to need an aft battery mount than the 'Classic'. If an aft battery
position is required, fitting an external power connection is easily
achieved
with very little weight penalty.
Nigel Charles
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Long wing CG |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
I prefer to use a stall warning device. There are two available in the UK.
The factory now supplies one and their is another marketed by Alan Couzens.
Although the stall strips work well when placed in the correct position they
raise the stall speed by up to 5kts which is rather counterproductive.
Nigel Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727@aol.com>
>
> One thing - I am flying the long wing. There are no provisions for stall
> strips on that wing. My comment about the non event stall is the long wing
> only. The short wing without stall strips can have a very abrupt stall - I
> have not done one, but have heard from other builders.
>
> I will be approaching the slow speeds with great caution - at 12,000 feet!
>
> Dave
> A227
> Mini U2
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa Club Outrigger Mod |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Nigel,
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the clubs outrigger mod. Since I'm
still building I have no first hand experience with real world workings of
the unit. Makes sense.
Looking forward to membership
craig ellison
a205
silverton or
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Club Outrigger Mod
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison"
> <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
> >
> > Nigel,
> >
> > For those of us that aren't Europa Club Members yet could we know some
> more
> > about the outrigger mod or do you have to be a member to find out that
> info?
> >
> > craig
>
>
> This mod overcomes two main problems with the outrigger pivot.
>
> Firstly in its present form it is only a matter of time before wear makes
it
> sloppy (particularly if you fly from grass strips a lot). The factory
> introduced a mod by providing replaceable inserts in the pivot support
> plates. I know some owners who are already on their second set of these.
> Also this does nothing to address the wear of the outrigger head which is
an
> aluminium casting. The club mod provides a pair of concentric tubes and a
> grease nipple which enables regular greasing preventing wear.
>
> Secondly it is possible to tighten the castellation nut too much which
> results in the outrigger failing to lower fully. This can happen even
after
> having tested the retraction on the ground (aircraft supported of course).
> This is because the air loading inflight adds to the resistance on
lowering.
> Sometimes during the flight testing of my Europa we found that one
outrigger
> only finally latched down when the speed was reduced on final approach.
> Loosening the castellation nut by one flat cured this. As it happens I
have
> microswitches on my outriggers to give indications when
> the gear is fully down ie. I look for 3 greens like any normal retractable
> landing gear. The club mod replaces the castellation nut with a stiff nut
> which can be tightened fully without clamping the outrigger.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel Charles
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "craig ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
John,
I did mine following in Bob's trail. I used a Mac servo.
I can snap a picture to send if you need.
Haven't flown yet, still building.
craig ellison
a205
silverton,or
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Aileron Trim Servo
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> Has anyone installed an aileron trim servo? John Hurst tells me it's a
nice
> addition if you fly alone frequently. I'm at the point where I'd need to
> install it. Comments?
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
For those following the motorglider flight test saga:
Flight #3 went very well and the changed CG helped greatly. The CG was at
60.5. The control authority was much better. I think it still can use a more
aft CG - probably about one more inch aft.
Takeoff and landing were uneventful
Dave
A227
Mini U2
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Motorglider CG |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.K. Hallett III" <reddog@gbis.com>
Dave,
Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Sure nice of you to do all this test
flying for the rest of the MG group. ;)
Ralph
DJA727@aol.com wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
>
>For those following the motorglider flight test saga:
>
>Flight #3 went very well and the changed CG helped greatly. The CG was at
>60.5. The control authority was much better. I think it still can use a more
>aft CG - probably about one more inch aft.
>
>Takeoff and landing were uneventful
>
>
>Dave
>A227
>Mini U2
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Minimum trim speed |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> To the best of my knowledge, we have never flown with the trim on the
'up'(slower speed) side of the centered trim position. Takeoff position
is 2 notches down on the trim indicator.
I'll second that. I've now got 9 Europas and 280 hours on type and have
never once moved the trim indicator higher that one notch below the
centre line. I've had to adjust the centre position on a couple to give
more down trim for high speed cruising.
Tony
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information.
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Message 11
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| Subject: | New purchase of monowheel kit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
Aileron trim...
I've just come back from our national SAANZ flyin. Russell Lister has a
really neat aileron trim in his aircraft.
He's used a light bungy cord connected to his control column with the
normal trim set up for dual flight. The bungy cord is connected to a
bicycle derailleur control knob on the floor. If he's flying solo he
just clicks in a couple of notches of tension onto the bungy to trim the
aileron.
Very clever, very simple!
Tony
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information.
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in the |
UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
If you look at the updated service programme for the Airmaster Propeller
which was issued a couple of months ago you'll see that there are a
number of suitable greases, you do not have to use Aerogrease 22.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Rickard
Cc:=09
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster
props in the UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ian Rickard"
<ian.iicons@ntlworld.com>
I have been looking for Aerogrease 22 in the UK. As you say Light Aero
has
it available but in a minimum quantity of 3Km at 90. The best source I
can
see at the moment is A/C Spruce (Part No 08-05490). Tube for $16. I am
about to order some if no other source becomes available.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI
e-mail ian.iicons@ntlworld.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel
Charles
Subject: Europa-List: Source for grease/sealant for Airmaster props in
the UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Does anyone know a retail outlet in the UK for grease and sealant as
required for the Airmaster prop?
The 5 suitable grease types are listed in the Owner's Manual but I have
yet
to find a retailer who stocks any of them in small quantities. Light
Aero
want over A390 for 3kg of Shell Aerogrease 22!!
With regards to the sealant (required for the blade root mod to prevent
water ingress) Andy Draper tells me that RS supply a suitable product
(part
no. 494-102) but that Bostik (part no. 341-0977) is also suitable but
much
cheaper. Yet again I have yet to find a retail outlet.
Nigel Charles
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination
or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient
is unauthorized and may be illegal.
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