Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:11 AM - For New Subscribers (John Cliff)
2. 06:44 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (James H Nelson)
3. 07:28 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (hedley brown)
4. 08:43 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (Peter Zutrauen)
6. 11:39 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (Jan de Jong)
7. 11:48 AM - Re: Aileron Trim Servo (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
8. 01:09 PM - Club website members-only area [was: Outrigger Mod] (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
9. 01:09 PM - Re: For New Subscribers (R.C.Harrison)
10. 01:33 PM - registration marking (Richard)
11. 01:52 PM - Re: registration marking (Kevin Taylor)
Message 1
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| Subject: | For New Subscribers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <john@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Over half of the subscribers to the old Forum have now moved to this list, so I
thought it might be helpful to say a couple of things.
There is an FAQ for this list available at
http://www.matronics.com/ftp/Archives/Europa-List.FAQ.html
This describes subscribe and unsubscribe procedures and the other features of
the list such as how to obtain or view or search the archives [presently
restricted to traffic on our new list, since it started a few months ago] and
how to use the pictures store and the web-viewer for the last week's postings.
It is not the same as the Europa FAQ, which continues on the Club website and
which will be amended in due course to reflect the change in the list hosting.
At the end of every message from the list is an array of links. One of these,
'List Specific', contains information about the list and further links,
including links to the factory site and the Club site.
The Europa Club website continues at http://www.europaclub.org.uk and my List
Support Site continues at http://www.crix.org.uk . I continue to be pleased to
post pictures and other material for people on this website (send them direct to
me), though this list does of course have its own picture store as an
alternative for straightforward pictures.
Lastly. perhaps I should point out that a Reply to any message delivered by this
list will be posted back to the list (just like the Forum, but as far as I am
aware without any way to suppress this action as we had before.
You have heard enough from me !
John Cliff
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
John,
I installed a tiny MAC servo in my aileron for just that
situation. It needs to be a minimum of 1.5" by 8" More is better in span
wise. We are limited in depth but width is flexible. One of the reasons
for the trim is if you don't get both wings exactly fitted to the
fuselage. I have a heavy stbd wing and even in solo flight I need about
50% of my trim operation to keep the aircraft in level trimmed flight.
I might add a bit to the length to make it more effective but that will
make the aileron look like it has a trim tab.. Mine is only 6" wide. If
I had thought about this longer, I would have made it 8" in length.
Someone has put a trim unit inside with a bungie cord and a lever to
apply certain amounts of pull. I don't know about its success but mine
works as it was designed. Just now as effective as I wanted.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "hedley brown" <hedley@hedleybrown.flyer.co.uk>
The trouble with a bungee is that when you move the stick forward or back
the tension on the bungee will increase. So - why not a weight on a bar on
either side of the base of the stick, which can be moved out to increase the
(very slight) forces for trim, and will even work in the right direction
when you are upside down and need to reverse the trim factor (not that we
would voluntarily adopt this posture)
From the mad ideas department...hb
----- Original Message -----
From: James H Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron Trim Servo
> --> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
>
> John,
> I installed a tiny MAC servo in my aileron for just that
> situation. It needs to be a minimum of 1.5" by 8" More is better in span
> wise. We are limited in depth but width is flexible. One of the reasons
> for the trim is if you don't get both wings exactly fitted to the
> fuselage. I have a heavy stbd wing and even in solo flight I need about
> 50% of my trim operation to keep the aircraft in level trimmed flight.
> I might add a bit to the length to make it more effective but that will
> make the aileron look like it has a trim tab.. Mine is only 6" wide. If
> I had thought about this longer, I would have made it 8" in length.
> Someone has put a trim unit inside with a bungie cord and a lever to
> apply certain amounts of pull. I don't know about its success but mine
> works as it was designed. Just now as effective as I wanted.
>
> Jim Nelson
> N15JN
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> The trouble with a bungee is that when you move the stick forward or
back
the tension on the bungee will increase.
On Russell's plane you don't notice any change in bungee tension when
moving the stick fore and aft. It's a very light bungee and is attached
to the bolt securing the stick to the control mechanism. The derailleur
lever is on the floor to the right of the column so you can easily reach
down and click it either way as required.
I've got an embedded aileron servo on mine but I'm now wishing I'd been
as ingenious as Russell as it really is a very tidy solution.... and I'm
not going to make another aileron as I've made five already!
Tony
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Ok, apologies in advance it this question is daft, but does the bungee force not
increase non-linearly as the stretch? If this is so, does the stick force not
become unbalanced when moving off center/neutral? Even if the bungee force is
linear as it stretches, if one has it set for no pull on the stick with the
stick neutral (case=no trim required), the stick would require more pull in the
direction of stretching the bungee vs the other...no? Are the bungee forces
so small that one does not notice these effects?
Cheers & thanks,
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" tonyk@kaon.co.nz
On Russell's plane you don't notice any change in bungee tension when
moving the stick fore and aft. It's a very light bungee and is attached
to the bolt securing the stick to the control mechanism. The derailleur
lever is on the floor to the right of the column so you can easily reach
down and click it either way as required.
I've got an embedded aileron servo on mine but I'm now wishing I'd been
as ingenious as Russell as it really is a very tidy solution.... and I'm
not going to make another aileron as I've made five already!
Tony
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl>
I don't actually know what I'm talking about, but what you're looking for IMHO,
is a constant sideways force independent of sideways movement of the stick; so
the bungee should be long enough to make the force approximately constant. To
avoid the situation of a completely loose bungee when no sideways force is needed
a constant tension bungee pulling gently the other way could be used.
Jan de Jong
Peter Zutrauen wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
>
> Ok, apologies in advance it this question is daft, but does the bungee force
not increase non-linearly as the stretch? If this is so, does the stick force
not become unbalanced when moving off center/neutral? Even if the bungee force
is linear as it stretches, if one has it set for no pull on the stick with the
stick neutral (case=no trim required), the stick would require more pull in
the direction of stretching the bungee vs the other...no? Are the bungee forces
so small that one does not notice these effects?
>
> Cheers & thanks,
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" tonyk@kaon.co.nz
>
> On Russell's plane you don't notice any change in bungee tension when
> moving the stick fore and aft. It's a very light bungee and is attached
> to the bolt securing the stick to the control mechanism. The derailleur
> lever is on the floor to the right of the column so you can easily reach
> down and click it either way as required.
>
> I've got an embedded aileron servo on mine but I'm now wishing I'd been
> as ingenious as Russell as it really is a very tidy solution.... and
I'm
> not going to make another aileron as I've made five already!
>
> Tony
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aileron Trim Servo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Are the bungee forces so small that one does not notice these
effects?
It's a really light bungee which is just in tension when the plane is
being flown solo. The force required at the base of the column is
minimal even when it's adjusted for two up. You just don't notice that
it's there even at the extremes of movement.
When he first described it to me I had expected a bungy either side of
the column but he's achieved this with a single cord.
Tony
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information.
If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination
or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient
is unauthorized and may be illegal.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Club website members-only area [was: Outrigger Mod] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 09:55 +0000 on 08-02-03, McFadyean wrote:
>May I have access please.
>
>From: McFadyean <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>To: "'memsec@europaclub.org.uk'" <memsec@europaclub.org.uk>
>Subject: members-only area access request
>Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 22:50:00 -0000
Duncan - I received the message you quoted above, and responded the
same day (even before you sent your message, according to my clock!).
You should have been able to gain access shortly after that. Be sure
you are entering the plain-text password, NOT the encrypted version
you sent me. If you're still having problems, please get back to me.
And I guess you posted this on the public list because of temporary
problems with addresses in the <europaclub.org.uk> domain; the
aliasing for these is hosted on the same machine as the Forum was and
it appears there are still some hiccups there. My older address
<europa-club@rowil.clara.net> is working fine so use that if you have
problems with <memsec@europaclub.org.uk>.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (480 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 9
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| Subject: | For New Subscribers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
For the attention of John Cliff.
Hi! John. Thought I would send this "on List" because it means that much
more than just privately.
I'd like to thank you for the considerable time and effort that you have
dedicated to the Europa Information cause in providing your web facilities
for photo information and dragging the Europa Forum into today's technology.
Being able to publish and refer to photos enable the transfer of so much
more information and ideas. " A picture speaks a thousand words".
I certainly hope that you still stay very much in touch with the Europa
Circuit and "family"
Thanks very much . I presume that if the original forum gets up and running
again the information with again start circulation.?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 #084
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Cliff
Subject: Europa-List: For New Subscribers
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff"
<john@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Message 10
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| Subject: | registration marking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
I am planning the decoration & (UK) marking of my tri gear G-RIXS. I note
from various pic's & what I have seen that the CAA rules on reg marking are
not always followed pedantically. Just how much leeway can I take? Can I
use italics, non standard fonts etc? What feedback have any members who
have not stuck exactly to the 'letter of the law'?
Richard Iddon.
Message 11
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| Subject: | registration marking |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Taylor" <kevin@eastyorkshire.co.uk>
I have seen and know several with non standard fonts and sizes.
One bit they are keen on is reg under the wing and they do check it.
They did a spot check on all planes in our hanger to ensure the under reg
was there!
Kev T
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Subject: Europa-List: registration marking
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
I am planning the decoration & (UK) marking of my tri gear G-RIXS. I note
from various pic's & what I have seen that the CAA rules on reg marking are
not always followed pedantically. Just how much leeway can I take? Can I
use italics, non standard fonts etc? What feedback have any members who
have not stuck exactly to the 'letter of the law'?
Richard Iddon.
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