Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:47 AM - New builder (Alan Stills)
2. 08:48 AM - New Builder with Question (Alan Stills)
3. 09:00 AM - Re: TCP? (John & Paddy Wigney)
4. 09:19 AM - Re: New Builder with Question (JW)
5. 11:16 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 (Graham Singleton)
6. 11:56 AM - Re: New builder (John & Amy Eckel)
7. 02:40 PM - Re: New builder (Alan Stills)
8. 03:26 PM - bounces on europaclub addresses (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
9. 03:26 PM - europa club members-only area (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
10. 04:06 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
11. 04:10 PM - Re: europa club members-only area (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
12. 04:42 PM - Re: Night and Day (Robert Berube)
13. 05:01 PM - Re: Night and Day (Robert Berube)
14. 05:48 PM - Re: europa club members-only area (Jim Brown)
15. 06:27 PM - Re: europa club members-only area (Shaun Simpkins)
16. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 (DJA727@aol.com)
17. 07:43 PM - Re: Night and Day (DJA727@aol.com)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Hello all,
My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095 in December
02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the tailplanes and have
a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and installed the
torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out to finish off the
tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly and am trying to
take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is, is the torque tube
assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the pins and cotter pins are
removed or is it permament once installed. Any help will be appreciated.
Al Stills
astills785@earthlink.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | New Builder with Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Hello all,
My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095 in December
02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the tailplanes and have
a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and installed the
torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out to finish off the
tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly and am trying to
take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is, is the torque tube
assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the pins and cotter pins are
removed or is it permament once installed. Any help will be appreciated.
Al Stills
astills785@earthlink.com
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
>
>
>Anyone know where to get TCP? Aircraft Spruce say it is on indefinite backorder.
>Ken Carpenter N9XS A123
>
>
>
Hi Ken,
The TCP manufacturer is the ALCOR company based in San Antonio, Texas.
You might try their toll free number at 800-354-7233 for suggested
retailers. I bought my TCP at SunNFun last year at a small parts booth.
Cheers, John
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New Builder with Question |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JW <xs191@attbi.com>
Al.
There is a breakdown in the manual. I don't have it in front of me, so I can't
say where. Anyway, the torque tube is not a two piece unit. Just make absolutely
sure you don't swap any of the pieces around. The orientation of the
parts, and the torque tube itself must be maintained. This may not seem important,
but it most certainly is. Even the torque tube itself should remain the
same side up. Mark it with a Sharpie or something. This all assumes Olaf did
it right in the first place. Regarding the pins. They must be very tight
in their respective holes. If they're almost too snug to move, do NOT
adjust the holes or pins to make them easier. By the way, there is another builder
in Mesa. You'll probably get a response from him as well.
Happy building!
Jeff
Alan Stills wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello all,
> My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095 in December
02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the tailplanes and
have a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and installed
the torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out to finish off
the tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly and am trying
to take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is, is the torque tube
assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the pins and cotter pins are
removed or is it permament once installed. Any help will be appreciated.
>
>
Al Stills
>
astills785@earthlink.com
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 14/02/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > "Motors like to be mounted fairly rigid, he is not real thrilled with
> > continental 0-200 Lord mounts if they are softer"
> >
>
>@@@@@@@@@ This doesn't make sense to me. In all engine I have worked with -
>both aircraft and auto, the goal is to relplace engine mounts when they get
>stiff with age. I can't see where a hard engine mount would help the engine.
There is a difference between the Rotax company mounts and the Europa
company mounts, both dimensionally and hardness. The Europa ones are
certainly too stiff, isn't there a factory mod to rectify this, longer
distance tubes to reduce the compression?
When we first installed our Classic engine the rubbers were so stiff the
washers compressing them went conical. Lengthening the tubes made quite a
difference.
Graham
---
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
Subject: Europa-List: New builder
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills"
<astills785@earthlink.net>
>
> Hello all,
> My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095 in
December 02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the tailplanes
and have a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and
installed the torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out to
finish off the tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly
and am trying to take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is,
is the torque tube assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the pins
and cotter pins are removed or is it permament once installed. Any help will
be appreciated.
>
>
Al Stills
Hi Al,
I have a question. What step are you on? There may be a solution to your
problem
that will allow you to leave the torque tube in place.
Regards,
John Eckel, A230
>
astills785@earthlink.com
>
>
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
John,
Have recieved a glorified drawing from Steve Hager that answered my
question. I have already taken the torque tube out and am in the process of
finishing the tailplanes out now. I am installing the tab control pins.
Thanks for your reply
Al Stills
----- Original Message -----
From: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder
> --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1@comcast.net>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Stills" <astills785@earthlink.net>
> To: <Europa-List@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: New builder
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills"
> <astills785@earthlink.net>
> >
> > Hello all,
> > My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095
in
> December 02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the
tailplanes
> and have a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and
> installed the torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out
to
> finish off the tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly
> and am trying to take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is,
> is the torque tube assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the
pins
> and cotter pins are removed or is it permament once installed. Any help
will
> be appreciated.
> >
> >
> Al Stills
>
> Hi Al,
> I have a question. What step are you on? There may be a solution to your
> problem
> that will allow you to leave the torque tube in place.
> Regards,
> John Eckel, A230
> >
> astills785@earthlink.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | bounces on europaclub addresses |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
We have had some problems with delivery failures on addresses in the
<europaclub.org.uk> domain, but that should now be fixed. If anyone
has had bounces from those addresses (most likely
<memsec@europaclub.org.uk> or webmaster@europaclub.org.uk>) SINCE
10th Feb, would they please forward the bounce message to our
unix/linux guru Tom Dawes-Gamble <tmdg@tmdg.co.uk> so he can see
what's going on. My alternative address is
<europa-club@rowil.clara.net>, which should be used only if the other
one gives problems.
Sorry to bother everyone with this - I'm getting a bit fed up with it myself!
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (480 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 9
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| Subject: | europa club members-only area |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
I have received a few squawks from people unable to get into the
Europa Club members-only area, despite having submitted a User ID &
encrypted Password and waited a week for activation.
If you're sure you have followed the guidelines for construction of
these items (no spaces, etc, etc), please get in touch with myself or
with webmaster Jeremy Davey, letting us know what browser version you
are using, and describing as well as you can the symptoms you are
experiencing.
Apologies again for more admin stuff.
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (480 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>>> The Europa ones are
certainly too stiff, isn't there a factory mod to rectify this, longer
distance tubes to reduce the compression?
Yes, there is an optional factory mod which achieves this.
Tony
Message 11
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| Subject: | europa club members-only area |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (480 hours building)
Gosh! Rowland, I see that you are only 20 hours away from finishing your
plane!
[For the newbies who are puzzled... the Europa was originally advertised
as a 500 hour build kit].
Tony
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Night and Day |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Some time ago when dealers ordered Rotax parts from the Rotax Distributor
they would be supplied with 0-200 type mounts. I will check with the
Distributor again to see if the have changed. The 0-200 rubber is slightly
softer and does provide a smoother engine. Have installed several with no
problems to date, but.....
Bob Berube A166
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Hey DJA727
>
> On my speedwing monowheel, i plan on installing a 914, with CS.
>
> I spoke to Bill Lockwood, from Lockwood Aviation in FL for some time
> bout the rotax motors.
>
> Any viabbarion kills the redrive. Unbalanced carbs, idle too slow and
> "MOTORMOUNTS THAT ARE TOO SOFT!"
>
> I am not an expert. I never saw a 914 mount in my hand.
>
> But Bill is suppsedlly an expert and says that 0200 mounts are a bad
> thing.
>
> He said use the provided mounts, idle 1800RPM min, sync carbs exact both
> low speed and high and have prop dynamic balanced.
>
> Here is his exact quote:
>
> "Motors like to be mounted fairly rigid, he is not real thrilled with
> continental 0-200 Lord mounts if they are softer"
>
> This is per a conversation 12-30-2002.
>
> I am only repeating what he said.
>
> Any other comments to the contrary?
>
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Night and Day |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
For what its worth, Marvin Alvarez recently took his 914 powered tri-gear to
Lockwood due to vibration problems. He was told that his rubber engine
mounts were too hard. They were replaced with softer ones. Sounds contrary
to what was said on the forum.
Bob Berube A166
----- Original Message -----
From: <DJA727@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 2/14/2003 8:23:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> peterz@zutrasoft.com writes:
>
> > I think Bill Lockwood may have a point in that softer mounts would
surely
> > change the harmonics of the engine/prop combination. But I wonder if
his
> > blanket statement is valid for all prop/engine combos?
>
>
> > @@@@@ I don't really thing the mounts effect the resonant frequency of
an
> > engine/prop combination. The mounts absorb the resulting vibrational
> > energy, but do not cause it. In an extreme case, hard bolting the engine
to
> > the airframe would result in zero energy absorption and all that energy
> > would be taken either in the airframe or in a reaction force in the
engine.
> >
>
>
> > I wonder what rpm ranges are the trouble points ("torsional peaks") for
the
> > redrive with the airmaster prop, on the 914 with the softer mounts? with
> > the harder mounts?
> >
>
> @@@@(what is redrive??? Is that a British term?) I have seen vibration
> increases in the 2600 - 2700 range and at the 5,000 range. Initial
> observations of about 30 minutes of running with these new mounts show the
> same vibrational resonant frequencies, just a lower perceived noise and
> vibration level in the cockpit.
>
> > I wonder if anyone has done a tortional resonance/vibration analysis on
the
> > combination... likely not I suspect. Is there a shop in the states
capable
> > of doing such testing (like the Bob Harrison had done accross the pond
on
> > the Jabiru 3300/MT combo)?
> >
> > Cheers &full of questions (what else is new?)
>
> @@@@@@@ I may be speaking from a point of ignorance, but again I still
> think the rotating parts are what cause the vibrational resonance. Since
the
> mounts are fixed, they will not contribute to the vibration. For example,
> when the eingine/prop is at the 2700 RPm range and hitting a peak, the
harder
> mounts will allow this vibration to transfer into the airframe more than
the
> softer mounts. With softer mounts, the engine will move more at this
> frequency, but of the prop is balanced and the engine is running smoothly,
I
> wouldn't think it would be a problem. I would hope that that this engine
is
> not so sensitive that it cannot be mounted via aircraft quality engine
mounts
> without having a problem.
>
> My "gut" reaction to this engine operation with the kit provided mounts,
> after thousands of hours siting behind lycoming engines, is that it felt
like
> it was bolted to the airplane. It did not feel right. Now, with these new
> mounts it does feel "right". For 24 hours or so, I was feeling way better
> about this engine installation, of course now there is water dashed upon
> that. I too am full of questions!!!!
>
> By the way, I don't know how old the mounts are I have with the kit. They
do
> stiffen with age. These continental mounts have a manufacture date for
that
> very reason.
>
> Cheers!
> Dave A227
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: europa club members-only area |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Tony,
In line with the 500 hour build kit, they are now advertising on their home
page CRUISE SPEEDS OVER 200 MPH......
I must have a sick engine!!!!!!
Jim Brown
"Tony S. Krzyzewski" wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>
>
> Gosh! Rowland, I see that you are only 20 hours away from finishing your
> plane!
>
> [For the newbies who are puzzled... the Europa was originally advertised
> as a 500 hour build kit].
>
> Tony
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: europa club members-only area |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" <shauns@hevanet.com>
And the 500 hour build time is STILL on the video as being "reasonably"
achievable by
the average builder...who never sleeps...
Oh, well, it's still a bloody good ship, if only a bit closer to mortal than
the factory would
have you believe...
Anyone ever independently confirm Denis Vories' 18K cruise speed of over
200MPH? I think that's where
the 200MPH figure came from...flat out...36" on the MAP...
Shaun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: europa club members-only area
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown <acrojim@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Tony,
>
> In line with the 500 hour build kit, they are now advertising on their
home
> page CRUISE SPEEDS OVER 200 MPH......
>
> I must have a sick engine!!!!!!
>
> Jim Brown
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 29 Msgs - 02/14/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 2/15/2003 11:17:32 AM Pacific Standard Time,
graham@gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
> There is a difference between the Rotax company mounts and the Europa
> company mounts, both dimensionally and hardness. The Europa ones are
> certainly too stiff, isn't there a factory mod to rectify this, longer
> distance tubes to reduce the compression?
> When we first installed our Classic engine the rubbers were so stiff the
> washers compressing them went conical. Lengthening the tubes made quite a
> difference.
>
I made a semi breakthrough today. The engine motion seemed too much -- more
than any airplane I have ever seen. I concluded it was too much and tried an
idea. The Europa mounts insert is slightly shorter than the rubber to allow
compression. I had made mine the same length -- per what Dennis did. I also
notice the mounts are slightly shorter than the Europa mounts. I tried a
comparable shortening of the insert and the results are good -- the engine
now moves more than the standard mounts, but not too much. It is more like I
expect it to be. Darkness and weather prevented running. I think this is the
last iteration in this engine mount fiasco.
Dave A227
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Night and Day |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 2/15/2003 4:44:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
bberube@tampabay.rr.com writes:
> Some time ago when dealers ordered Rotax parts from the Rotax Distributor
> they would be supplied with 0-200 type mounts. I will check with the
> Distributor again to see if the have changed. The 0-200 rubber is slightly
> softer and does provide a smoother engine. Have installed several with no
> problems to date, but.....
>
Thanks - I think with the correct length insert, the mounting is now correct.
I will run it tomorrow to check -- weather permitting.
Dave
A227
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