---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/16/03: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:44 AM - Re: europa club members-only area (R.C.Harrison) 2. 02:40 AM - Re: Night and Day (McFadyean) 3. 02:51 AM - Re: New builder (Alan Gilbert) 4. 03:32 AM - Re: Night and Day (McFadyean) 5. 09:26 AM - Re: Night and Day (Shaun Simpkins) 6. 09:43 AM - Re: Night and Day (Simon Smith) 7. 12:17 PM - Re: Night and Day (Jeremy Davey) 8. 12:50 PM - Gearbox inspection and overhaul (martinstevens) 9. 12:53 PM - 3d model Europa? (Richard) 10. 12:53 PM - Fuel sight guages (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 11. 01:18 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (Dean Wiegand) 12. 02:07 PM - Re: Fuel sight guages (Peter Zutrauen) 13. 02:09 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (Peter Zutrauen) 14. 02:18 PM - Re: Fuel sight guages (Tony S. Krzyzewski) 15. 02:21 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 16. 02:22 PM - Re: Fuel sight guages (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 17. 03:22 PM - Re: Fuel sight guages (kbcarpenter@comcast.net) 18. 03:51 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (Dean Wiegand) 19. 03:57 PM - Re: Fuel sight guages (R.C.Harrison) 20. 04:46 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (Peter Zutrauen) 21. 07:31 PM - Re: Fuel sight gauges (ScramIt@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:52 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: europa club members-only area --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Tony . You misunderstood.... It's actually 500 hours per year over 5 years ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tony S. Krzyzewski Subject: RE: Europa-List: europa club members-only area --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" | Europa 435 G-ROWI (480 hours building) Gosh! Rowland, I see that you are only 20 hours away from finishing your plane! [For the newbies who are puzzled... the Europa was originally advertised as a 500 hour build kit]. Tony ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:40:08 AM PST US From: McFadyean Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: McFadyean I notice that the German CT has a softer mounted Rotax. What parts are they using? As it appears they stole Europa's wing profile, perhaps we could borrow their mounting detail. Ditto Katana?? Duncan McF. On Sunday, February 16, 2003 12:43 AM, Robert Berube [SMTP:bberube@tampabay.rr.com] wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" > > Some time ago when dealers ordered Rotax parts from the Rotax Distributor > they would be supplied with 0-200 type mounts. I will check with the > Distributor again to see if the have changed. The 0-200 rubber is slightly > softer and does provide a smoother engine. Have installed several with no > problems to date, but..... > > Bob Berube A166 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Parigoris" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris > > > > > Hey DJA727 > > > > On my speedwing monowheel, i plan on installing a 914, with CS. > > > > I spoke to Bill Lockwood, from Lockwood Aviation in FL for some time > > bout the rotax motors. > > > > Any viabbarion kills the redrive. Unbalanced carbs, idle too slow and > > "MOTORMOUNTS THAT ARE TOO SOFT!" > > > > I am not an expert. I never saw a 914 mount in my hand. > > > > But Bill is suppsedlly an expert and says that 0200 mounts are a bad > > thing. > > > > He said use the provided mounts, idle 1800RPM min, sync carbs exact both > > low speed and high and have prop dynamic balanced. > > > > Here is his exact quote: > > > > "Motors like to be mounted fairly rigid, he is not real thrilled with > > continental 0-200 Lord mounts if they are softer" > > > > This is per a conversation 12-30-2002. > > > > I am only repeating what he said. > > > > Any other comments to the contrary? > > > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:09 AM PST US From: "Alan Gilbert" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Gilbert" do not archive Hi Alan, when you install the drive pins - the advice I have received is not to follow the instructions - install one as per the instructions and position the other with the tabs and stabilators fully installed on the plane. Any minor misalignment error in the drive pins, which you will surely get, will result in a misalignment in the tabs and you'll find it very difficult to get them both level with the stabilators.Might save you a little work at a later date. Am I right in thinking that on this forum we are asked to include the words do not archive for general chit chat and trivia so that the archive doesn't get clogged up? To date, no one seems to be bothering and I just wonder if it will make us just a little unpopular. Just to introduce myself cos I've been lurking for two years - kit 497 monowheel - very slow progress - just starting on the wings Alan Gilbert 497 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Stills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" > > John, > Have recieved a glorified drawing from Steve Hager that answered my > question. I have already taken the torque tube out and am in the process of > finishing the tailplanes out now. I am installing the tab control pins. > Thanks for your reply > Al Stills > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John & Amy Eckel" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: New builder > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Amy Eckel > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alan Stills" > > To: > > Subject: Europa-List: New builder > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stills" > > > > > > > > Hello all, > > > My name is Al Stills from Phoenix, Ariz. I purchased Olaf Asmis's, A095 > in > > December 02, and am currently building. I'm just finishing up the > tailplanes > > and have a question I hope can be answered. Olaf sorta jumped ahead and > > installed the torque tube into the fuselage and I now have to take it out > to > > finish off the tailplanes. I can find no schematic on the torque assembly > > and am trying to take it out to finish off the tailplanes. My question is, > > is the torque tube assembly a 2 piece assembly the comes apart when the > pins > > and cotter pins are removed or is it permament once installed. Any help > will > > be appreciated. > > > > > > > > Al Stills > > > > Hi Al, > > I have a question. What step are you on? There may be a solution to your > > problem > > that will allow you to leave the torque tube in place. > > Regards, > > John Eckel, A230 > > > > > astills785@earthlink.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:56 AM PST US From: McFadyean Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: McFadyean WarpDrive ought to be able to give us a steer on the vibration characteristics of their propellers. Unfortunately, when I last asked they could not (I suspect they've never measured it). Has anyone (e.g. Airmaster) got any data on the blade-flap frequencies of the blades alone? These would be independent of any contribution from the engine/gearbox. In any case there is an element of decoupling provided by backlash in the gears and the 'dog clutch' so that the propeller is likely to be the villain of the piece as far as harmonic vibrations go; the engine is just the protagonist . I've noticed that a gust of wind into the back of the running Warp Drive (on the ground, obviously) can set-off a vibration at about 2700 engine-rpm Duncan McF. (who is not happy with the Rotax gearbox, but the Agent thinks I'm just a trouble maker!) On Friday, February 14, 2003 4:23 PM, Peter Zutrauen [SMTP:peterz@zutrasoft.com] wrote: > I wonder what rpm ranges are the trouble points ("torsional peaks") for the redrive with the airmaster prop, on the 914 with the softer mounts? with the harder mounts? > > I wonder if anyone has done a tortional resonance/vibration analysis on the combination... likely not I suspect. Is there a shop in the states capable of doing such testing (like the Bob Harrison had done accross the pond on the Jabiru 3300/MT combo)? > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:47 AM PST US From: "Shaun Simpkins" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" What's "the German CT"? Shaun ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadyean" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day > --> Europa-List message posted by: McFadyean > > I notice that the German CT has a softer mounted Rotax. What parts are they using? > As it appears they stole Europa's wing profile, perhaps we could borrow their mounting detail. > Ditto Katana?? > > Duncan McF. > > On Sunday, February 16, 2003 12:43 AM, Robert Berube [SMTP:bberube@tampabay.rr.com] wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" > > > > Some time ago when dealers ordered Rotax parts from the Rotax Distributor > > they would be supplied with 0-200 type mounts. I will check with the > > Distributor again to see if the have changed. The 0-200 rubber is slightly > > softer and does provide a smoother engine. Have installed several with no > > problems to date, but..... > > > > Bob Berube A166 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ron Parigoris" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > Hey DJA727 > > > > > > On my speedwing monowheel, i plan on installing a 914, with CS. > > > > > > I spoke to Bill Lockwood, from Lockwood Aviation in FL for some time > > > bout the rotax motors. > > > > > > Any viabbarion kills the redrive. Unbalanced carbs, idle too slow and > > > "MOTORMOUNTS THAT ARE TOO SOFT!" > > > > > > I am not an expert. I never saw a 914 mount in my hand. > > > > > > But Bill is suppsedlly an expert and says that 0200 mounts are a bad > > > thing. > > > > > > He said use the provided mounts, idle 1800RPM min, sync carbs exact both > > > low speed and high and have prop dynamic balanced. > > > > > > Here is his exact quote: > > > > > > "Motors like to be mounted fairly rigid, he is not real thrilled with > > > continental 0-200 Lord mounts if they are softer" > > > > > > This is per a conversation 12-30-2002. > > > > > > I am only repeating what he said. > > > > > > Any other comments to the contrary? > > > > > > Ron Parigoris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:11 AM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" What's "the German CT"? Shaun Could be this? http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Sweden/1/4/ultralight/subdet7.htm Simon ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:23 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" I suspect so - made by Flight Dynamics in the Ukraine. Sold in the UK by Pegasus Aviation as a microlight. It's a wonderful little aeroplane - incredibly easy and fun to fly, with the most benign stall I've ever experienced in my short flying career, but a cruise of about 120kts. It's so easy to fly at very low speeds that the easiest way to taxi it over a rough strip turned out to be a slow flight at about 2 feet above the ground :-) Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Simon Smith Subject: RE: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shaun Simpkins Subject: Re: Europa-List: Night and Day --> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" What's "the German CT"? Shaun Could be this? http://www.mamut.com/homepages/Sweden/1/4/ultralight/subdet7.htm Simon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:34 PM PST US From: "martinstevens" Subject: Europa-List: Gearbox inspection and overhaul --> Europa-List message posted by: "martinstevens" GBXCH is a monowheel classic with 912 warp drive prop - 500hrs. Over the last few months I have been experiencing vibration, which I suspect is gearbox orientated. Can anyone give me some idea as to what the cost is for a overhaul from sky drive. Has anyone else experienced these symptoms regards Martin. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:56 PM PST US From: "Richard" Subject: Europa-List: 3d model Europa? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" My son, who has done quite a bit of 3d modelling, is working on the graphics for my tri gear and wondered if anyone has created a computer 3d model of a Europa which he could download? ( for a flight sim programme perhaps?). Richard Iddon. G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:57 PM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings all. I've been pondering whether or not to use a fuel sight guage, using a mechanical guage mounted in the top of the tank instead. And whether to just forego the guage altogether and use a fuel flow computer/sight guage combo. The time has come to make a decision and I'd like to solicit comments if you have any. Here's the problem. The mechanical guage I have (Tempo Products marine type) would mount in the top of the tank on the left side. I can't seem to come up with a way to make this mechanical guage work with a "clean" transition between the tank top and the cockpit module top because of the way the tank mounts to the cockpit module and the way these type guages mount into the top of the tank. I've seen a couple capacitance types that have been mounted inside the headrest area and into the tank, and a couple mounted in the area between the head rests, closer to the left side headrest. A mechanical or capacitance guage also means more holes (6 in this case) in the tank resulting in more places to develop a leak and hard to get to if they ever do start leaking. Add to that the hole in the top of the cockpit module needed to access the guage (compromising the structural integrity of the cockpit module? Not a problem though if mounted under the headrest since the hole would be in the plywood floor of the headrest, but hard to get to) and it just doesn't seem worth doing. I don't like where Europa suggests putting the sight guage (left hand side of the center tunnel). It seems like you'd kick it every time you get in and out of the airplane. My thoughts at this point are to forget the mechanical guage, install the sight guage in the right rear corner of the baggage hold, where it would be visible before loading baggage, and use an electronic, programmable fuel flow computer (such as Vision Microsystems VM1000). It seems to me this significantly shortens the amount of fuel/vent line run around the cockpit, significantly shortens the sight guage vent line length and satisfies the FAA requirement for a sight guage on board. The only real problem here is cost, but when you add up what all this little gizmo does it's not all that out of bounds. Comments? Suggestions? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:42 PM PST US From: "Dean Wiegand" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Wiegand" John, at this point in time (not building - waiting on parts- just thinking) I am planning on a sight gauge between the seat backs so I could easily check it against my panel (I am going with the EFIS/One and a capacitance probe) and also if my panel goes out completely. I am leaning toward the "bead in a bubble" from Atkinson ( http://home.attbi.com/~nostromo56/ ) but would have to make sure I could mount it for proper levels. Dean Wiegand Sacramento CA USA dwiegand@surewest.net kit A259 www.dwiegand.dnsalias.com/europa/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings all. I've been pondering whether or not to use a fuel sight guage, using a mechanical guage mounted in the top of the tank instead. And whether to just forego the guage altogether and use a fuel flow computer/sight guage combo. The time has come to make a decision and I'd like to solicit comments if you have any. Here's the problem. The mechanical guage I have (Tempo Products marine type) would mount in the top of the tank on the left side. I can't seem to come up with a way to make this mechanical guage work with a "clean" transition between the tank top and the cockpit module top because of the way the tank mounts to the cockpit module and the way these type guages mount into the top of the tank. I've seen a couple capacitance types that have been mounted inside the headrest area and into the tank, and a couple mounted in the area between the head rests, closer to the left side headrest. A mechanical or capacitance guage also means more holes (6 in this case) in the tank resulting in more places to develop a leak and hard to get to if they ever do start leaking. Add to that the hole in the top of the cockpit module needed to access the guage (compromising the structural integrity of the cockpit module? Not a problem though if mounted under the headrest since the hole would be in the plywood floor of the headrest, but hard to get to) and it just doesn't seem worth doing. I don't like where Europa suggests putting the sight guage (left hand side of the center tunnel). It seems like you'd kick it every time you get in and out of the airplane. My thoughts at this point are to forget the mechanical guage, install the sight guage in the right rear corner of the baggage hold, where it would be visible before loading baggage, and use an electronic, programmable fuel flow computer (such as Vision Microsystems VM1000). It seems to me this significantly shortens the amount of fuel/vent line run around the cockpit, significantly shortens the sight guage vent line length and satisfies the FAA requirement for a sight guage on board. The only real problem here is cost, but when you add up what all this little gizmo does it's not all that out of bounds. Comments? Suggestions? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ================= Contributions any other ================= messages. members. ================= http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ================= ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" I was toying with the idea of making a fuel gauge consisting of an aluminum tube, with a magnetic float in it which would trip some magnetic micro-switches at various heights along the outside of the tube wired with some circuitry to provide a stepped resistance or voltage output. (like the one from http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown but inside-out). I would plumb the bottom of the tube to the tank outlet, place the tube behind the headrests in the baggage bay, and vent the top of the tube to the filler vent. No additional holes in the tank, short tubing runs, relatively lightweight and easily serviceable. Any thoughts? Alternatively there is also the very neat concept of measuring the weight of the fuel using a pressure transducer as designed by Tony - see: http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/ or search the old email postings with Andrew's great web-page http://www.geocities.com/asarangan/europa_forum.html Cheers, Pete A239 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" Sounds like what Steve D. has done - see: http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/EuropaSite/Bubble%20Fuel%20Gauge/Bubbl e%20Fuel%20Gauge.html Cheers, Pete A239 -----Original Message----- From: Dean Wiegand [mailto:dwiegand@surewest.net] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Wiegand" John, at this point in time (not building - waiting on parts- just thinking) I am planning on a sight gauge between the seat backs so I could easily check it against my panel (I am going with the EFIS/One and a capacitance probe) and also if my panel goes out completely. I am leaning toward the "bead in a bubble" from Atkinson ( http://home.attbi.com/~nostromo56/ ) but would have to make sure I could mount it for proper levels. Dean Wiegand Sacramento CA USA dwiegand@surewest.net kit A259 www.dwiegand.dnsalias.com/europa/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings all. I've been pondering whether or not to use a fuel sight guage, using a mechanical guage mounted in the top of the tank instead. And whether to just forego the guage altogether and use a fuel flow computer/sight guage combo. The time has come to make a decision and I'd like to solicit comments if you have any. Here's the problem. The mechanical guage I have (Tempo Products marine type) would mount in the top of the tank on the left side. I can't seem to come up with a way to make this mechanical guage work with a "clean" transition between the tank top and the cockpit module top because of the way the tank mounts to the cockpit module and the way these type guages mount into the top of the tank. I've seen a couple capacitance types that have been mounted inside the headrest area and into the tank, and a couple mounted in the area between the head rests, closer to the left side headrest. A mechanical or capacitance guage also means more holes (6 in this case) in the tank resulting in more places to develop a leak and hard to get to if they ever do start leaking. Add to that the hole in the top of the cockpit module needed to access the guage (compromising the structural integrity of the cockpit module? Not a problem though if mounted under the headrest since the hole would be in the plywood floor of the headrest, but hard to get to) and it just doesn't seem worth doing. I don't like where Europa suggests putting the sight guage (left hand side of the center tunnel). It seems like you'd kick it every time you get in and out of the airplane. My thoughts at this point are to forget the mechanical guage, install the sight guage in the right rear corner of the baggage hold, where it would be visible before loading baggage, and use an electronic, programmable fuel flow computer (such as Vision Microsystems VM1000). It seems to me this significantly shortens the amount of fuel/vent line run around the cockpit, significantly shortens the sight guage vent line length and satisfies the FAA requirement for a sight guage on board. The only real problem here is cost, but when you add up what all this little gizmo does it's not all that out of bounds. Comments? Suggestions? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ================= Contributions any other ================= messages. members. ================= http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ================= ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages From: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" >>> I was toying with the idea of making a fuel gauge consisting of an aluminum tube, with a magnetic float in it which would trip some magnetic micro-switches at various heights along the outside of the tube wired with some circuitry to provide a stepped resistance or voltage output. (like the one from http://www.avnet.co.uk/touchdown but inside-out). Or you can buy the touchdown one from Europa pre made and ready to fit... It's called Mod 60 and costs GBP178.50. It's already calibrated to the tank shape and has all the necessary bits to properly seal the tank after fitting. Tony ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:09 PM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/2003 5:09:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, peterz@zutrasoft.com writes: > Sounds like what Steve D. has done - see: > http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/EuropaSite/Bubble%20Fuel%20Gauge/Bubbl > e%20Fuel%20Gauge.html > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > Any idea how he gets the guage to read the contents of the tank below the level of the bottom of the guage? I think these bead type guages have to be even with the tank and the same length as the tank is high, just like a sight tube, correct? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:33 PM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/2003 5:19:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, tonyk@kaon.co.nz writes: > Or you can buy the touchdown one from Europa pre made and ready to > fit... It's called Mod 60 and costs GBP178.50. It's already calibrated > to the tank shape and has all the necessary bits to properly seal the > tank after fitting. > > Tony > Tony, Is there a picture of the Europa Mod 60 guage available? Regards, John Lawton Dunlap TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:30 PM PST US From: kbcarpenter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: kbcarpenter@comcast.net I ran mine up the front of the tank between the seats then across the top of the tank to the fillerneck and on up to a vent on top of the fuselage beside the tank vent. It is recommended to have a non mechanical and non electrical way to verify that the tank is full or half full. Mine is useful down to half full. I have a capacitance gauge also for finer reading. Ken Carpenter A123 N9XS ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages > --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > > Greetings all. > > I've been pondering whether or not to use a fuel sight guage, using a > mechanical guage mounted in the top of the tank instead. And whether to just > forego the guage altogether and use a fuel flow computer/sight guage combo. > The time has come to make a decision and I'd like to solicit comments if you > have any. > > Here's the problem. The mechanical guage I have (Tempo Products marine type) > would mount in the top of the tank on the left side. I can't seem to come up > with a way to make this mechanical guage work with a "clean" transition > between the tank top and the cockpit module top because of the way the tank > mounts to the cockpit module and the way these type guages mount into the top > of the tank. I've seen a couple capacitance types that have been mounted > inside the headrest area and into the tank, and a couple mounted in the area > between the head rests, closer to the left side headrest. A mechanical or > capacitance guage also means more holes (6 in this case) in the tank > resulting in more places to develop a leak and hard to get to if they ever do > start leaking. Add to that the hole in the top of the cockpit module needed > to access the guage (compromising the structural integrity of the cockpit > module? Not a problem though if mounted under the headrest since the hole > would be in the plywood floor of the headrest, but hard to get to) and it > just doesn't seem worth doing. > > I don't like where Europa suggests putting the sight guage (left hand side > of the center tunnel). It seems like you'd kick it every time you get in and > out of the airplane. My thoughts at this point are to forget the mechanical > guage, install the sight guage in the right rear corner of the baggage hold, > where it would be visible before loading baggage, and use an electronic, > programmable fuel flow computer (such as Vision Microsystems VM1000). It > seems to me this significantly shortens the amount of fuel/vent line run > around the cockpit, significantly shortens the sight guage vent line length > and satisfies the FAA requirement for a sight guage on board. The only real > problem here is cost, but when you add up what all this little gizmo does > it's not all that out of bounds. > > Comments? Suggestions? > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:09 PM PST US From: "Dean Wiegand" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Wiegand" That is what I was thinking too, so I took the ruler and placed it around the seat back area, and the only place I can come up with that would be low enough and flat is on the passenger seatback at the corner where it meets the tunnel - it could be on the pilot side, but I think the passenger side would be easier to see. P.S. Thanks for the link Pete, I wanted to see a "live" example, but I want to keep as much elbow room as possible. Dean Wiegand Sacramento CA USA dwiegand@surewest.net kit A259 www.dwiegand.dnsalias.com/europa/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 2/16/2003 5:09:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, peterz@zutrasoft.com writes: > Sounds like what Steve D. has done - see: > http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/EuropaSite/Bubble%20F uel%20Gauge/Bubbl > e%20Fuel%20Gauge.html > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > Any idea how he gets the guage to read the contents of the tank below the level of the bottom of the guage? I think these bead type guages have to be even with the tank and the same length as the tank is high, just like a sight tube, correct? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ================= Contributions any other ================= messages. members. ================= http://www.matronics.com/subscription http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/europa-list http://www.matronics.com/contribution ================= ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:57:04 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! John. I'm using a transducer type made and supplied by Tony K in New Zealand. Works quite well once you have calibrated it with a computer commection. It measures the pressure of the "head" of fuel and has a red LED display. Has pipe connections by "tee" into original sight gauge pipe at the lowest position and the dead side of the pressure sensor is vented to static air. No tank invasion whatsoever. My sight gauge is between the seats above the tunnel. OK stood alongside to read but hopeless looking down at it from the P1 or Passenger positions. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Fuel sight guages --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings all. I've been pondering whether or not to use a fuel sight guage, using a mechanical guage mounted in the top of the tank instead. And whether to just forego the guage altogether and use a fuel flow computer/sight guage combo. The time has come to make a decision and I'd like to solicit comments if you have any. Here's the problem. The mechanical guage I have (Tempo Products marine type) would mount in the top of the tank on the left side. I can't seem to come up with a way to make this mechanical guage work with a "clean" transition between the tank top and the cockpit module top because of the way the tank mounts to the cockpit module and the way these type guages mount into the top of the tank. I've seen a couple capacitance types that have been mounted inside the headrest area and into the tank, and a couple mounted in the area between the head rests, closer to the left side headrest. A mechanical or capacitance guage also means more holes (6 in this case) in the tank resulting in more places to develop a leak and hard to get to if they ever do start leaking. Add to that the hole in the top of the cockpit module needed to access the guage (compromising the structural integrity of the cockpit module? Not a problem though if mounted under the headrest since the hole would be in the plywood floor of the headrest, but hard to get to) and it just doesn't seem worth doing. I don't like where Europa suggests putting the sight guage (left hand side of the center tunnel). It seems like you'd kick it every time you get in and out of the airplane. My thoughts at this point are to forget the mechanical guage, install the sight guage in the right rear corner of the baggage hold, where it would be visible before loading baggage, and use an electronic, programmable fuel flow computer (such as Vision Microsystems VM1000). It seems to me this significantly shortens the amount of fuel/vent line run around the cockpit, significantly shortens the sight guage vent line length and satisfies the FAA requirement for a sight guage on board. The only real problem here is cost, but when you add up what all this little gizmo does it's not all that out of bounds. Comments? Suggestions? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges From: "Peter Zutrauen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" I'm not sure, but maybe the second site gauge Steve was putting in the corner of the footwell takes care of the lower readings? Cheers, Pete A239 Any idea how he gets the guage to read the contents of the tank below the level of the bottom of the guage? I think these bead type guages have to be even with the tank and the same length as the tank is high, just like a sight tube, correct? John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:25 PM PST US From: ScramIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel sight gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com Yes, I have the gauge mounted between the seats. It reads the level of the fuel above the saddle. I also have two of the longer bubbles that I was thinking of putting in the foot wells. They would be like the Europa tube gauge, only good in level flight. I have them plumbed with 1/8 napa fuel lines and vented with tygon. I had to drill them and add fittings, and you will still need the flow restrictor at the tank outlet as per plans. I have the LED lights for them also. I thought about putting them in the baggage bay, but only seeing them at preflight, It was a toss up. The gauges are from Vance ( http://home.attbi.com/%7Enostromo56/ ) I'm still not sure if I'm going to put one or both lower gauges in......... I also have the capacitance probe from Europa in FL. I have it mounted to a "bagel" in the left saddle. P.S. You can glue your cockpit module in by yourself, I did it today in four hours... Pictures to follow... SteveD. http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html > Any idea how he gets the guage to read the contents of the tank below the > level of the bottom of the guage? I think these bead type guages have to be > even with the tank and the same length as the tank is high, just like a > sight > tube, correct? > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 >