Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:56 AM - Re: Seats & stainless Reg No. plate (Nigel Charles)
2. 01:31 AM - Re: Control surfaces filling (Roger Sheridan)
3. 01:33 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 02/24/03 (Paul Atkinson)
4. 02:02 AM - Amine Blush/Hardener/Postcuring/Allergy Opinion (Tony Renshaw)
5. 02:28 AM - Re: Amine Blush/Hardener/Postcuring/Allergy Opinion (R.C.Harrison)
6. 03:56 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (Bill Henderson)
7. 04:49 AM - Antw: Door Gas Strut Mod. (Alfred Buess)
8. 05:51 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (Paul McAllister)
9. 06:37 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (James H Nelson)
10. 06:50 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2)
11. 11:47 AM - Painting around the windows (Erich Trombley)
12. 12:13 PM - Re: Painting around the windows (Davidghillam@aol.com)
13. 12:27 PM - Control surfaces filling (Garry Copeland)
14. 01:56 PM - Re: Rotaries (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
15. 02:25 PM - Re: Rotaries (Tony Renshaw)
16. 02:40 PM - 100 year party? (ScramIt@aol.com)
17. 03:09 PM - G-OWWW (Richard Holder)
18. 03:36 PM - Re: 100 year party? (John & Amy Eckel)
19. 04:30 PM - Re:G-OWWW (Erich Trombley)
20. 11:26 PM - G-OWWW first flight. (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Seats & stainless Reg No. plate |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
<Also where do I source an engraved stainless plate with my reg. no. on?<
I supplied a piece of leftover firewall to a local signmaker/shoe repairer
shop. They then engraved my registration for a reasonable sum.
Nigel Charles
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Control surfaces filling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Roger Sheridan <rogersheridan@btinternet.com>
I've had good results peel plying over expancell, this removes any chance of
amine blush and also allows firmer use of the squeegee to remove any air
bubbles without the filler migrating away from where you want it.
I have also left an electric blanket over the area overnight, & the filler
is ready for sanding after 12 hours.
Cheers,
Rog Sheridan.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 31 Msgs - 02/24/03 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Atkinson <paul@theatkinsons.demon.co.uk>
Richard
Your friendly neighbourhood keycutter should be able to oblige with
engraving your plate. You will probably need to provide the material
though.
For your seats I can recommend Matthew Russell. He did a nice job of
mine but you will need to be patient :-((
Paul
>
> Time: 12:52:47 PM PST US
> From: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Seats & stainless Reg No. plate
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard" <riddon@btinternet.com>
>
> What options are available on seats? Is this another DIY job or are
> there
> 'standard' off the peg seats available? Europa tell me that they will
> be
> supplying seats & upholstery options but it doesn't seem to be happening
> soon enough for me.
>
> Also where do I source an engraved stainless plate with my reg. no. on?
>
> Richard Iddon G-RIXS (UK based)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Amine Blush/Hardener/Postcuring/Allergy Opinion |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Gidday,
For fear of entering where I shouldn't tread, firstly the residue is called
"amine blush". It is supposedly water soluble, so later on it can be washed
off. I however have my own theory. Have you ever noticed the odour when you
remove peel ply? What does it smell like to you? Well, to me it smells of my SP
Systems Ampreg 20 hardener, a perfect match. This is the same odour you will
get when you start to sand a raw edge too, if your silly enough to do it
without your respirator on. I reckon the hardener is a curing, and yet strength
compromising ingredient. If you heat up your cured components, or in fact the
room as you build up the heat for a hot initial cure, the smell is hardener.
So, since strength is increased with postcure and you smell hardener, well the
process is "boiling it off, or out of your work". This is very much a laymans
determination, but I'll bet a VB I'm right! This is part of the reason why you
shouldn't handle the layups after cure, although the experts will tell you it
is to minimise oils from your skin compromising the bonding abilities of future
coatings, but I am sure this handling is contributory to the allergic
reactions certain people have. The hardener is the evil here. If you are
starting to get any symptoms of allergy, well I would be putting on my cotton
gloves as a matter of course when in the plane factory.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
At 11:11 PM 2/25/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
>
>Hi! Gary.
>For my experiences you need to not only control the heat high but also the
>humidity needs to be as low as possible for the whole of the curing period.
>The moisture combines with the surface and produces the "glue like"
>substance that Richard thinks is uncured resin.(there is a name for it but
>it escapes me) My experience of the Expandcell on the tail planes was
>sufficient for me to change over to Polyfibre. A by far superior substance
>to apply, cure and sand back. Their Smooth prime is then next applied by
>roller and is also extremely easy to "cut back" and "rag" pin holes away.
>(but both are expensive!)
>Also watch out that you don't loose the wing profiles, but I guess you have
>an XS with the "Aero-Fix" wing skins so perhaps not to worry on that score!
>regards
>Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Garry
>Copeland
>To: europa list
>Subject: Europa-List: Control surfaces filling
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry Copeland"
><garrett.copeland@btinternet.com>
>
>Folks,
>I am about to start filling my control surfaces. Since space is limited I
>plan on filling all the surfaces, then erecting some dust contol measures
>and sanding them all.
>Is there an optimum time between filling and sanding back? I expect it will
>be a few weeks between filling the first surface and starting to sand it.
>I plan on using the Expancel that came with the kit.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Garry
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Amine Blush/Hardener/Postcuring/Allergy Opinion |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Tony.
I don't profess to be an authority either but the shit that formed on my
stabilators was in no way soluble in water, soap , diluted vinegar or any
other solvent. It was just bloody hard labour and many many sheets of glass
paper and fouled up permagrit tools, cooked or let stand for days, with or
without peel ply. Sorry mate,but no thanks. Give me polyfibre any day.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Subject: Europa-List: Amine Blush/Hardener/Postcuring/Allergy Opinion
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill Henderson" <europabill@bellsouth.net>
Go to Tony's web site at http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/ and look at his
January 2003 page. It's all there. I did it basically the same way and it
works like a charm.....
Bill
A010
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> All,
> Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for improving
the door strut operation. I seem to remember it involved the gas strut
operating a pair of hinged aluminium angle legs to open the door, so that
all the force of the gas strut was contained by the aluminium angles when in
the closed position and not by the corner of the door. If anyone has done
such a mod I would very much like to hear from them. Also, is there a
method to persuade the door corners back to the correct shape?
> Best wishes,
> William
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alfred Buess" <Alfred.Buess@shl.bfh.ch>
William,
The idea is published in http://www.zutrasoft.com/europastuff/, the author is Peter
Zutrauen.
Alfred
>>> combined.merchants@virgin.net 02/26 7:41 >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
All,
Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for improving the
door strut operation. I seem to remember it involved the gas strut operating
a pair of hinged aluminium angle legs to open the door, so that all the force
of the gas strut was contained by the aluminium angles when in the closed position
and not by the corner of the door. If anyone has done such a mod I would
very much like to hear from them. Also, is there a method to persuade the door
corners back to the correct shape?
Best wishes,
William
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi William,
If you take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/apr-02.html you can see
what I have done. It includes some measurements which should be a good
starting point.
I copied this idea from Jim Nelson's Europa and it seems to work nicely.
Regards, Paul
http://europa363.versadev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> All,
> Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for improving
the door strut operation. I seem to remember it involved the gas strut
operating a pair of hinged aluminium angle legs to open the door, so that
all the force of the gas strut was contained by the aluminium angles when in
the closed position and not by the corner of the door. If anyone has done
such a mod I would very much like to hear from them. Also, is there a
method to persuade the door corners back to the correct shape?
> Best wishes,
> William
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James H Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
William,
Just reverse the mounting of the lift strut. You mount the cyl.
to the fuselage near the top of the fuselage door opening and mount the
cyl to the door about 9" down the door (from the top). this puts the
stresses on the door away from the hinge. Thus eliminating the lifting
of the door at the back. You have to make a mount to attach to the door
but that is easy. I used a piece of aluminum angle that I rivited to the
door with two layers of bid over the base. This in effect moved the
mounting bracket from the top of the door to a position about 9" down the
door edge. With some carefull measuring it is really an easy task. If
you want some pix I can e-mail them to you.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
Message 10
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| Subject: | Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "STOUT, GARRY V, CSFF2" <garrys@att.com>
All replies appear to be valid approaches in a "new construction"
environment. As the proud owner of a 4 year old Europa, I now find that
the top rear corner of my doors has grown to a 1/2 inch gap (proud of
the fuselage for my Brit friends). Does anyone have any experience with
"reversing" the distortion of the doors? Some non-destructive method of
bringing the doors back to a flush position with the fuselage?
Regards,
Garry V. Stout
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul McAllister [mailto:paul.mcallister@qia.net]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi William,
If you take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/apr-02.html you can
see
what I have done. It includes some measurements which should be a good
starting point.
I copied this idea from Jim Nelson's Europa and it seems to work nicely.
Regards, Paul
http://europa363.versadev.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
<combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> All,
> Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for
improving
the door strut operation. I seem to remember it involved the gas strut
operating a pair of hinged aluminium angle legs to open the door, so
that
all the force of the gas strut was contained by the aluminium angles
when in
the closed position and not by the corner of the door. If anyone has
done
such a mod I would very much like to hear from them. Also, is there a
method to persuade the door corners back to the correct shape?
> Best wishes,
> William
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Painting around the windows |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
For those of you that have painted your plane, what have you done around the windows?
I have seen a builder that applied a single layer of bid on the door frame
overlapping onto the plexiglass window by about 1/2" which in turn covered
the exposed redux. This was later filled and sanded and subsequently painted.
The look was great but it seemed to be a lot of work. What have others done?
Erich Trombley
A028
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Painting around the windows |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Davidghillam@aol.com
Hi,
What I did was to fill the junction between the plexiglass and the frame,
then mask the plexiglass about half an inch away from its edge (using
insulation tape as masking tape). The filler and the half inch border is
then sanded prior to painting.
David Hillam
G-SHSH
Message 13
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| Subject: | Control surfaces filling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry Copeland" <garrett.copeland@btinternet.com>
Thanks to all for the replies.
Garry Copeland
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 16:09 +0000 on 24-02-03, Andy Draper wrote:
>There are two rotaries that I know of in Europas. One is kit No. 3
>Oliver Smith and the other is Roger Lloyd kit No. 6.
Tony - both of those are Europa Club members, so their details are in
the Europa Club member list issued to all members ....
regards
Rowland
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (490 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Rowland,
Thank you, but as you might recall I am no longer a member. I was for years,
but got inundated with information and something had to go. So, I suppose I
will get their details through another means. If you can help out I'd
appreciate it.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
At 09:17 PM 2/26/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
>
>At 16:09 +0000 on 24-02-03, Andy Draper wrote:
>
>>There are two rotaries that I know of in Europas. One is kit No. 3
>>Oliver Smith and the other is Roger Lloyd kit No. 6.
>
>Tony - both of those are Europa Club members, so their details are in
>the Europa Club member list issued to all members ....
>
>regards
>
>Rowland
>
>
>| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary
>| Europa 435 G-ROWI (490 hours building) PFA #16532 EAA #168386
>| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
>
>
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
Is anyone going to Kitty Hawk in December for the centennial of flight
celebration? I'm going for the week (Dec 13-21). For some RR and chillen. If
a few Europa builders / pilots show up. I'll have a BBQ
Southern Low boil, or something.
SteveD.
http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
Message 17
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Nigel Harrison <icemanbnh@hotmail.com>
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
I am very pleased to announce that today 26th February at 1555 GMT Europa
Kit 51 lifted off from Blackbushe airfield for its first flight in the hands
of Pete Jeffers.
35 minutes later, after a low fly-by he brought it safely in to land taxiing
in with a large grin on his face.
He reported few problems, even the mode C on the transponder was working !
It stalled clean at 53 knots indicated and with full flap at 41 knots
indicated.
Unfortunately when we removed the top cowling there were signs of water and
oil leakage, so more work is required. However we left it at Blackbushe and
we will be flying again (wx permitting) on Monday.
Congratulations to Nigel Harrison who has done almost all the work (I did
just the panel and the electrics). We bought this kit from Tim Whittome in
Inverness in October 2001. It has foam wings and the wings and tail feathers
were built but had not been filled. Nigel has completed it in 16 months.
YEEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAA :-)
We have to disable our 3000 Airmaster CS propeller because the PFA are
currently insisting on a manifold pressure gauge. The first I heard of this
was ten days AFTER I had applied for the permit to test fly. Europa had told
me late in 2001 that a MAP gauge was not required, and there is currently no
room in my panel for it. Pleased, I was NOT :-(
There is no mandatory requirement for the MAP gauge in the Airmaster
Installation manual, or the Rotax Operating manual.
My pictures are crap because I didn't have enough zoom, but if anyone is
interested contact me off list.
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being flight tested
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 100 year party? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1@comcast.net>
Steve,
I'll be there on the nights of 14 - 16 and probably head out on the 17th,
but
will stay extra if they can't fly on the17th. Does anyone know if there will
be
a flight if the 17th doesn't work out?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: <ScramIt@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: 100 year party?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: ScramIt@aol.com
>
> Is anyone going to Kitty Hawk in December for the centennial of flight
> celebration? I'm going for the week (Dec 13-21). For some RR and chillen.
If
> a few Europa builders / pilots show up. I'll have a BBQ
> Southern Low boil, or something.
>
> SteveD.
> http://homepage.mac.com/sdunsmuir/Europa.html
>
>
Message 19
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Erich Trombley <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Congratulations. Just wait until you get behind the controls and get that Europa
grin foryourself.
Erich Trombley
---------- Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> writes:
From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Nigel Harrison <icemanbnh@hotmail.com>
Subject: Europa-List: G-OWWW
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
I am very pleased to announce that today 26th February at 1555 GMT Europa
Kit 51 lifted off from Blackbushe airfield for its first flight in the hands
of Pete Jeffers.
35 minutes later, after a low fly-by he brought it safely in to land taxiing
in with a large grin on his face.
He reported few problems, even the mode C on the transponder was working !
It stalled clean at 53 knots indicated and with full flap at 41 knots
indicated.
Unfortunately when we removed the top cowling there were signs of water and
oil leakage, so more work is required. However we left it at Blackbushe and
we will be flying again (wx permitting) on Monday.
Congratulations to Nigel Harrison who has done almost all the work (I did
just the panel and the electrics). We bought this kit from Tim Whittome in
Inverness in October 2001. It has foam wings and the wings and tail feathers
were built but had not been filled. Nigel has completed it in 16 months.
YEEEEEEEEEEE-HAAAAAAAAA :-)
We have to disable our 3000 Airmaster CS propeller because the PFA are
currently insisting on a manifold pressure gauge. The first I heard of this
was ten days AFTER I had applied for the permit to test fly. Europa had told
me late in 2001 that a MAP gauge was not required, and there is currently no
room in my panel for it. Pleased, I was NOT :-(
There is no mandatory requirement for the MAP gauge in the Airmaster
Installation manual, or the Rotax Operating manual.
My pictures are crap because I didn't have enough zoom, but if anyone is
interested contact me off list.
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, being flight tested
Message 20
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| Subject: | G-OWWW first flight. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Richard.
Congratulations! Good to see there was a HARRISON involved!!!!!
I will say IMHO that Pete took a long first flight prior to an in the cowl
check.
On the Manifold Pressure question, without one you will never know whether
you are running the engine constantly overloaded or not, with the CS
prop.your throttle becomes a power lever since the RPM control is done by
the prop.
This is why I've been waiting for Jabiru to get their act together and
provide some dynamometer
power output/manifold pressure charts because even with the Manifold
Pressure Gauge it will vary with ambient and altitude. In your case with the
Rotax I'm wondering if you neet two gauges?
I'm hoping Francis Donaldson gets some progress on this subject during his
visit to Jabiru at Bundaberg currently, because I'm thinking that Jabiru's
lack of interest on his question shows a failing of the "grey matter"!
I'm also more than a little suprised that "others" that you are mentioning
don't seem to suggest the way to go.
Regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG Europa 337/MKI/ Jabiru 3300 #084
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Holder
Subject: Europa-List: G-OWWW
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
I am very pleased to announce that today 26th February at 1555 GMT Europa
Kit 51 lifted off from Blackbushe airfield for its first flight in the hands
of Pete Jeffers.
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