Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:19 AM - Fuel Smell (Tim Ward)
2. 02:26 AM - Re: Fuel Smell (Tony Renshaw)
3. 04:25 AM - Door Gas Strut Mod. (Edward Gladstone)
4. 05:12 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (Jeremy Davey)
5. 05:54 AM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (Fergus Kyle)
6. 07:40 AM - Re: Fuel Smell (Paul McAllister)
7. 07:57 AM - Fuel filler (Kevin Klinefelter)
8. 08:55 AM - Re: Fuel filler (tom)
9. 10:16 AM - Re: Fuel Smell (kbcarpenter@comcast.net)
10. 11:27 AM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Steve Hagar)
11. 11:54 AM - Re: Fuel filler (KARL HEINDL)
12. 12:26 PM - Re: Fuel Smell (Tim Ward)
13. 01:14 PM - Re: Fuel filler (DJA727@aol.com)
14. 02:08 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Kevin Klinefelter)
15. 03:07 PM - Re: Fuel filler (tom)
16. 04:14 PM - Re: Fuel Smell (James Nelson)
17. 04:17 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Steve Hagar)
18. 05:10 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Troy Maynor)
19. 05:42 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Kevin Klinefelter)
20. 07:12 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Tony S. Krzyzewski)
21. 07:18 PM - Re: Mounting fuel pumps (Peter Zutrauen)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
The dreaded fuel smell!
For the first time I filled the fuel tank to the brim on my classic monowheel and
the fuel smell became apparent. Tracked it down to the 2" rubber piping between
the tank and the plastic fuel filler intake. Just replaced it with a piece
of the piping I had for the original fuel intake from the center ceiling
without the baggage mod. as I heard other builders doing that with success. Is
that correct? Any other good ideas?
Will check it next time I fill it up. Found the total capacity to be 67.17 litres
not 70 as quoted. 9 litres was left in the Reserve.
Cheers
Tim
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 3 3515166
email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@ozemail.com.au>
Tim,
Are you flying now????
Reg
Tony Renshaw
P.S. I am just about to install my cockpit module, I hope by the end of the
week. Very slow I am. Oh well.
At 09:12 PM 3/2/2003 +1300, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
>
>
>The dreaded fuel smell!
>For the first time I filled the fuel tank to the brim on my classic
>monowheel and the fuel smell became apparent. Tracked it down to the 2"
>rubber piping between the tank and the plastic fuel filler intake. Just
>replaced it with a piece of the piping I had for the original fuel intake
>from the center ceiling without the baggage mod. as I heard other builders
>doing that with success. Is that correct? Any other good ideas?
>Will check it next time I fill it up. Found the total capacity to be 67.17
>litres not 70 as quoted. 9 litres was left in the Reserve.
>Cheers
>Tim
>--
>Timothy P Ward
>12 Waiwetu Street,
>Fendalton,
>Christchurch,
>NEW ZEALAND
>
>Ph. 0064 3 3515166
>email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
>Mobile 025 2649325
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Edward Gladstone <Ted_Gladstone@compuserve.com>
>
>Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for improving
the door strut operation.
> I seem to remember it involved the gas strut operating a pair of hinged
aluminium angle legs - - - - - - -
>
>
I think ours is the gas strut mechanism to which you are referring.
All Europa aircraft have doors which progressively bend up over time at the
rear due to the constant force of the door gas strut mechanism.
Our doors fit perfectly and we do not want that fit to deteriorate. With
the standard strut mechanism It is also difficult to ensure that the rear
shoot bolt is
correctly engaged, due to the twisting force exerted on the door by the gas
strut.
This modification changes the way in which the Europa provided gas strut
holds the door open. The gas strut is enclosed within a pair of hinged
aluminium levers as you describe.
We have made a prototype and the result is most satisfactory. The door is
opened and no immediate opening effect is felt until the door is about
twelve inches out. The strut then gently and progressively takes over to
produce a slow and even opening speed until it reaches the stop at the top.
Advantages:-
1. The lever pivot point on the door is moved further away form the
hinge line. Thus lower forces are involved in holding the door open.
2. The line of force exerted by the lever is almost in the same plane
as the centre of gravity of the door.
3. The gas strut is totally contained within the folding levers and
exerts NO FORCE IN ANY DIRECTION on the door or fuselage when the
door is in the closed position. The forces that
distort other Europa doors are completely removed.
4. The force that the levers exert on the door increases progressively
from zero, when the door is closed, to a maximum when the door is fully
open.
5. The levers are designed to reach their fully open position at about
160 degrees and are held in this position by the force in the gas strut.
As a result there is no necessity to unlatch the
levers to close the door.
We are in the process of completing the paperwork for an application to the
PFA for mod approval.
If it is of any interest we can post some pictures on the Photo Share site.
Ted & Justin
G-ZTED
Message 4
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| Subject: | Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <jeremycrdavey@btinternet.com>
Ted,
This would very much be of interest - please do post the pictures.
Is this a mod you'd be willing to share with the greater Europa community -
given PFA approval? I, for one, would be interested in a solution that
avoided the door-bending problem.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa XS Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward
Gladstone
--> Europa-List message posted by: Edward Gladstone
<Ted_Gladstone@compuserve.com>
>
>Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for improving
the door strut operation.
> I seem to remember it involved the gas strut operating a pair of hinged
aluminium angle legs - - - - - - -
>
>
I think ours is the gas strut mechanism to which you are referring.
All Europa aircraft have doors which progressively bend up over time at the
rear due to the constant force of the door gas strut mechanism.
Our doors fit perfectly and we do not want that fit to deteriorate. With
the standard strut mechanism It is also difficult to ensure that the rear
shoot bolt is
correctly engaged, due to the twisting force exerted on the door by the gas
strut.
This modification changes the way in which the Europa provided gas strut
holds the door open. The gas strut is enclosed within a pair of hinged
aluminium levers as you describe.
We have made a prototype and the result is most satisfactory. The door is
opened and no immediate opening effect is felt until the door is about
twelve inches out. The strut then gently and progressively takes over to
produce a slow and even opening speed until it reaches the stop at the top.
Advantages:-
1. The lever pivot point on the door is moved further away form the
hinge line. Thus lower forces are involved in holding the door open.
2. The line of force exerted by the lever is almost in the same plane
as the centre of gravity of the door.
3. The gas strut is totally contained within the folding levers and
exerts NO FORCE IN ANY DIRECTION on the door or fuselage when the
door is in the closed position. The forces that
distort other Europa doors are completely removed.
4. The force that the levers exert on the door increases progressively
from zero, when the door is closed, to a maximum when the door is fully
open.
5. The levers are designed to reach their fully open position at about
160 degrees and are held in this position by the force in the gas strut.
As a result there is no necessity to unlatch the
levers to close the door.
We are in the process of completing the paperwork for an application to the
PFA for mod approval.
If it is of any interest we can post some pictures on the Photo Share site.
Ted & Justin
G-ZTED
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Europa-List: Door Gas Strut Mod.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Edward Gladstone
<Ted_Gladstone@compuserve.com>
> >Some time ago on the forum a member came up with a good idea for
improving> the door strut operation. I seem to remember it involved the gas
strut operating a pair of hinged> aluminium angle legs - - - - - - -
> I think ours is the gas strut mechanism to which you are referring.
> All Europa aircraft have doors which progressively bend up over time at
the
> rear due to the constant force of the door gas strut mechanism.
ted,
May I add my voice to others who are interested in your
innovative door closer device? Pictures would be super.......
Cheers, Ferg
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Tim,
Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/jul-02.html to see what I did.
I got the elbow from Bob at Flightcrafters. I am not flying yet so I don't
know how well it works.
Paul
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked about. A
popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a welded
aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for sale to
other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum. mod., are
you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a better
hose type available?
Thanks, Kevin A211
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
Hi Kevin
Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see the fuel
level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the net and
asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested it with
pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked about.
A
> popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a welded
> aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for sale to
> other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum. mod.,
are
> you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a better
> hose type available?
> Thanks, Kevin A211
>
>
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: kbcarpenter@comcast.net
I had the aluminum fuel neck Bob sells installed in my plane about 20 hours
ago. The odor of gas is gone.
The rubber elbow is a stinker.
Ken Carpenter
A123 N9XS
---- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Smell
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Tim,
>
> Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/jul-02.html to see what I
did.
> I got the elbow from Bob at Flightcrafters. I am not flying yet so I
don't
> know how well it works.
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Kevin:
I just finished my fuel system prior to putting the top on. To mount the
fuel pump I took a piece of .090 aluminum sheet about 2"X4". Put a nutplate
in it for the hose clamp that comes with the pumps. I spaced it off of the
bottom of the fuselage floor with a couple of small pieces of foam to give
the screw clearance and filled and bonded the remaining space with some
redux and flox. I mounted one pump like that the other pumps clamp was
bolted through one of the plywood bulkheads for the baggage bay. That way
the pumps are spaced apart far enough apart to put a t between them and not
have a tight bend radius bewteen the hoses. Both pumps are still visible
when I remove the left baggage access panel.
I stayed away from using barbs on the pressurized side of the fuel system
(other than the barb on the pump's outlets) I used Aeroquip 303 hose and
the 491 flared hose fittings. You need a hacksaw to cut this stuff, whereas
you can clip the Europa supplied stainless braided hose with a set of dykes!
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann@gte.net>
> To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/1/03 12:30:24 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Hi all, does anyone have good way of mounting the 914 fuel pumps to the
> floor behind the baggage bay?
> Also, I have the Andair mini gascolator and fitted a 1/2" hose barb to
the
> outlet. The next connector will be a tee of 1/2" barbs to split off to
the 2
> fuel pumps. This eliminates the need for the 2 J1006 reducers. I found a
> nylon tee fitting that will work, but I'd rather get a metal one like the
> WTP002 provided in the kit. Anyone know where to get a 1/2" hose barb Tee
> fitting that is not plastic? I'm trying to reduce the number of
connections
> as much as possible.
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Do not archive
Tom,
That tubing seems perfect, but can you let the rest of us know
where you bought it and for how much ? Is it angled like the
rubber tube ?
Karl
>From: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
>Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:54:45 -0800
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
>
>Hi Kevin
>
>Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see the fuel
>level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the net and
>asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested it with
>pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
>
>Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>To: "Europa-List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> >
> > Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked
>about.
>A
> > popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a welded
> > aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for sale
>to
> > other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum. mod.,
>are
> > you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a
>better
> > hose type available?
> > Thanks, Kevin A211
> >
> >
>
>
Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Many thanks for all the replies on the Fuel smell. I shall try out the "classic"
piping first and if it is still there change to the Alum. job.
Cheers,
Tim
Paul McAllister wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Tim,
>
> Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/jul-02.html to see what I did.
> I got the elbow from Bob at Flightcrafters. I am not flying yet so I don't
> know how well it works.
>
> Paul
>
--
Timothy P Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
NEW ZEALAND
Ph. 0064 3 3515166
email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Mobile 025 2649325
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DJA727@aol.com
In a message dated 3/2/2003 7:58:32 AM Pacific Standard Time, kevann@gte.net
writes:
> Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked about. A
> popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a welded
> aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for sale to
> other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum. mod., are
> you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a better
> hose type available?
>
Ibought mine from an auto parts store - a hose designed for automotive fuel.
I just ended up using a steel tube bent to the right shape. It is heavier
than aluminum, but not as much as I expected. I would be happy to change that
out for a welded tube if it were available.
Dave
A227
12.3 hours on the mini U2
Climb performance this morning was 1,200 fpm all the way to 15,000 feet. That
is at about 1250 pounds.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Steve, Did you fit the 303 hose on the pumps outlets and hose clamp them?
Did you get the aeroquip mandrel for the 491 fittings?
The 303 looks like a very good choice, better be for the price eh?
I too am trying to get this wrapped up before the top goes on. I just got
word that my 914 is on its way! John Hurst kindly sent me a retired fuel
pump to help get this plumbing madness figured out. I'd be glad to pass it
on if anybody could use a model 914 pump.
Thanks, Kevin Klinefelter A211
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Kevin:
I just finished my fuel system prior to putting the top on. To mount the
fuel pump I took a piece of .090 aluminum sheet about 2"X4". Put a nutplate
in it for the hose clamp that comes with the pumps. I spaced it off of the
bottom of the fuselage floor with a couple of small pieces of foam to give
the screw clearance and filled and bonded the remaining space with some
redux and flox. I mounted one pump like that the other pumps clamp was
bolted through one of the plywood bulkheads for the baggage bay. That way
the pumps are spaced apart far enough apart to put a t between them and not
have a tight bend radius bewteen the hoses. Both pumps are still visible
when I remove the left baggage access panel.
I stayed away from using barbs on the pressurized side of the fuel system
(other than the barb on the pump's outlets) I used Aeroquip 303 hose and
the 491 flared hose fittings. You need a hacksaw to cut this stuff, whereas
you can clip the Europa supplied stainless braided hose with a set of dykes!
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa, AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann@gte.net>
> To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 3/1/03 12:30:24 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Hi all, does anyone have good way of mounting the 914 fuel pumps to the
> floor behind the baggage bay?
> Also, I have the Andair mini gascolator and fitted a 1/2" hose barb to
the
> outlet. The next connector will be a tee of 1/2" barbs to split off to
the 2
> fuel pumps. This eliminates the need for the 2 J1006 reducers. I found a
> nylon tee fitting that will work, but I'd rather get a metal one like the
> WTP002 provided in the kit. Anyone know where to get a 1/2" hose barb Tee
> fitting that is not plastic? I'm trying to reduce the number of
connections
> as much as possible.
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
Do not archive.
Karl
I just looked up polyurethane tubing on google and called one of the
manufacturers. They only sold in hundreds of feet but were happy to send me
a sample for nothing. I told Andy where I got it and of my tests. I don't
know if he followed up. It has a slight curve and is flexible so I think it
will fit fine.
Tim
I would suggest you do as I did and test the factory supplied rubber tube.
Plug both ends with auto gas inside. It shortly smelled so bad that I had
to get it out of the garage.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
>
> Do not archive
>
> Tom,
>
> That tubing seems perfect, but can you let the rest of us know
> where you bought it and for how much ? Is it angled like the
> rubber tube ?
>
> Karl
>
>
> >From: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:54:45 -0800
> >
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> >
> >Hi Kevin
> >
> >Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see the
fuel
> >level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the net and
> >asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested it with
> >pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
> >
> >Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> >To: "Europa-List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> >
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
<kevann@gte.net>
> > >
> > > Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked
> >about.
> >A
> > > popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a
welded
> > > aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for sale
> >to
> > > other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum.
mod.,
> >are
> > > you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a
> >better
> > > hose type available?
> > > Thanks, Kevin A211
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
>
>
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Tim,
I replaced the 2" angled piece with an aluminum tube with a 2"
thin wall O.D. Cut it to match the angle required to mate up with the
filler and made it about 1/2" short at both ends. I then used clear PVC
flexible tubing (I got at my local Home Depot) and slid a 3" piece on
each end of the tube. When I placed it in position and slid the PVC
outward over the tank and fuel filler ends, it closed up the system and
allowed for me to see if any fuel was in the area by looking thru the
clear joint. I used the existing clamps and added the two needed with
this arrangement, I've had almost no smell. I also replaced all the
Europa flex piping with the local automotive "fuel injection rated" fuel
lines. This would be less likely to let fuel vapor release thru the
tubing. The US fuel has a lot of additives in it so I needed the best.
There was a bit of conversation on this several years ago and that is
when I made my change. The PVC clear tubing is easy to replace when
necessary. (cheep also)
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Sun, 02 Mar 2003 21:12:54 +1300 Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz> writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
>
>
> The dreaded fuel smell!
> For the first time I filled the fuel tank to the brim on my classic
> monowheel and the fuel smell became apparent. Tracked it down to
> the 2" rubber piping between the tank and the plastic fuel filler
> intake. Just replaced it with a piece of the piping I had for the
> original fuel intake from the center ceiling without the baggage
> mod. as I heard other builders doing that with success. Is that
> correct? Any other good ideas?
> Will check it next time I fill it up. Found the total capacity to be
> 67.17 litres not 70 as quoted. 9 litres was left in the Reserve.
> Cheers
> Tim
> --
> Timothy P Ward
> 12 Waiwetu Street,
> Fendalton,
> Christchurch,
> NEW ZEALAND
>
> Ph. 0064 3 3515166
> email ward.t@xtra.co.nz
> Mobile 025 2649325
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Kevin:
Yes the 303-6 hose clamps up nicely to the pump outlet. I bought a mandral
from Wicks Aircraft it is $10 cheaper than the unit in AC Spruce. This is
not a recommended tool as noted in the AC Spruce catalog it is a required
tool if you are to install the fittings right. The fittings go in so tight
to the hose that it really inspires confidence in the integrity of the
joint.
I was originally told that the 914 pumps had check valves in them. Upon
obtaining them and investigating by pumping gasoline from one backwards
into the other this was found not to be the case. So make sure you account
for this and install some check valves. Just don't buy them from Wicks. I
got a pair and they have been sitting around since 1959! (just about as old
as me). These things were real relics. I now know how things were
packaged befor plastic was real popular. There was no problems with Wicks
taking them back and crediting me. I even gave them the opportunity to
send me some newer ones but they said all of the ones they had were that
old. They must have gotten a good deal from some govt surplus sale.
Using this hose and fittings is indeed not cheap. Its easy to burn a
C-note and just get started with the job.
I was talking to Erich Trombley who just launched his plane recently about
fuel systems and he has come up with a novel way to implement a fuel
totalizer without having to have a flow sensor on the return line. If I
understand it right He put a "T" upstream of both pump inlets and hooked
the return line into the supply line. Then he put a check valve ahead of
this so that the fuel can't be pumped back into the tank. He's got quite a
few hours on the plane now and says the fuel burn indications are right on
the money.
I may try this out after getting a heads up from him after some extended
usage.
Steve
A143
Mesa, AZ
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
>
> Steve, Did you fit the 303 hose on the pumps outlets and hose clamp them?
> Did you get the aeroquip mandrel for the 491 fittings?
> The 303 looks like a very good choice, better be for the price eh?
> I too am trying to get this wrapped up before the top goes on. I just got
> word that my 914 is on its way! John Hurst kindly sent me a retired fuel
> pump to help get this plumbing madness figured out. I'd be glad to pass it
> on if anybody could use a model 914 pump.
> Thanks, Kevin Klinefelter A211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Hagar
> To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Kevin:
>
> I just finished my fuel system prior to putting the top on. To mount the
> fuel pump I took a piece of .090 aluminum sheet about 2"X4". Put a
nutplate
> in it for the hose clamp that comes with the pumps. I spaced it off of the
> bottom of the fuselage floor with a couple of small pieces of foam to give
> the screw clearance and filled and bonded the remaining space with some
> redux and flox. I mounted one pump like that the other pumps clamp was
> bolted through one of the plywood bulkheads for the baggage bay. That way
> the pumps are spaced apart far enough apart to put a t between them and
not
> have a tight bend radius bewteen the hoses. Both pumps are still visible
> when I remove the left baggage access panel.
>
> I stayed away from using barbs on the pressurized side of the fuel system
> (other than the barb on the pump's outlets) I used Aeroquip 303 hose and
> the 491 flared hose fittings. You need a hacksaw to cut this stuff,
whereas
> you can clip the Europa supplied stainless braided hose with a set of
dykes!
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann@gte.net>
> > To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 3/1/03 12:30:24 PM
> > Subject: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> >
> > Hi all, does anyone have good way of mounting the 914 fuel pumps to the
> > floor behind the baggage bay?
> > Also, I have the Andair mini gascolator and fitted a 1/2" hose barb to
> the
> > outlet. The next connector will be a tee of 1/2" barbs to split off to
> the 2
> > fuel pumps. This eliminates the need for the 2 J1006 reducers. I found a
> > nylon tee fitting that will work, but I'd rather get a metal one like
the
> > WTP002 provided in the kit. Anyone know where to get a 1/2" hose barb
Tee
> > fitting that is not plastic? I'm trying to reduce the number of
> connections
> > as much as possible.
> >
> >
>
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
I'd like to see a diagram of this. It would save me almost $200 bucks.
Troy
>I was talking to Erich Trombley who just launched his plane recently about
>fuel systems and he has come up with a novel way to implement a fuel
>totalizer without having to have a flow sensor on the return line. If I
>understand it right He put a "T" upstream of both pump inlets and hooked
>the return line into the supply line. Then he put a check valve ahead of
>this so that the fuel can't be pumped back into the tank. He's got quite a
>few hours on the plane now and says the fuel burn indications are right on
>the money.
>
>I may try this out after getting a heads up from him after some extended
>usage.
>
>Steve
>A143
>Mesa, AZ
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Yes, the only thing I can think of that is not optimal is the fact that the
reserve side would not be continually topped off. Probably not a big deal as
long as the latter part of your flight is not real turbulent!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Troy Maynor
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
I'd like to see a diagram of this. It would save me almost $200 bucks.
Troy
>I was talking to Erich Trombley who just launched his plane recently about
>fuel systems and he has come up with a novel way to implement a fuel
>totalizer without having to have a flow sensor on the return line. If I
>understand it right He put a "T" upstream of both pump inlets and hooked
>the return line into the supply line. Then he put a check valve ahead of
>this so that the fuel can't be pumped back into the tank. He's got quite a
>few hours on the plane now and says the fuel burn indications are right on
>the money.
>
>I may try this out after getting a heads up from him after some extended
>usage.
>
>Steve
>A143
>Mesa, AZ
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony S. Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Then he put a check valve ahead of this so that the fuel can't be
pumped back into the tank.
When Rotax, the PFA and Europa all state that the return line should go
back to the tank to prevent vapour lock, I for one take that as a strong
recommendation that the return fuel should go back to the tank.
Tony
Message 21
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| Subject: | Mounting fuel pumps |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
I wonder if the temp of the fuel in the 'short-circuit' is still kept
low enough to avoid vapour-lock on hot days (versus taking the cooler
fuel from the tank)?
Curious,
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hagar [mailto:hagargs@earthlink.net]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
Kevin:
Yes the 303-6 hose clamps up nicely to the pump outlet. I bought a
mandral
from Wicks Aircraft it is $10 cheaper than the unit in AC Spruce. This
is
not a recommended tool as noted in the AC Spruce catalog it is a
required
tool if you are to install the fittings right. The fittings go in so
tight
to the hose that it really inspires confidence in the integrity of the
joint.
I was originally told that the 914 pumps had check valves in them. Upon
obtaining them and investigating by pumping gasoline from one backwards
into the other this was found not to be the case. So make sure you
account
for this and install some check valves. Just don't buy them from Wicks.
I
got a pair and they have been sitting around since 1959! (just about as
old
as me). These things were real relics. I now know how things were
packaged befor plastic was real popular. There was no problems with
Wicks
taking them back and crediting me. I even gave them the opportunity to
send me some newer ones but they said all of the ones they had were that
old. They must have gotten a good deal from some govt surplus sale.
Using this hose and fittings is indeed not cheap. Its easy to burn a
C-note and just get started with the job.
I was talking to Erich Trombley who just launched his plane recently
about
fuel systems and he has come up with a novel way to implement a fuel
totalizer without having to have a flow sensor on the return line. If I
understand it right He put a "T" upstream of both pump inlets and hooked
the return line into the supply line. Then he put a check valve ahead of
this so that the fuel can't be pumped back into the tank. He's got quite
a
few hours on the plane now and says the fuel burn indications are right
on
the money.
I may try this out after getting a heads up from him after some extended
usage.
Steve
A143
Mesa, AZ
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
<kevann@gte.net>
>
> Steve, Did you fit the 303 hose on the pumps outlets and hose clamp
them?
> Did you get the aeroquip mandrel for the 491 fittings?
> The 303 looks like a very good choice, better be for the price eh?
> I too am trying to get this wrapped up before the top goes on. I just
got
> word that my 914 is on its way! John Hurst kindly sent me a retired
fuel
> pump to help get this plumbing madness figured out. I'd be glad to
pass it
> on if anybody could use a model 914 pump.
> Thanks, Kevin Klinefelter A211
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve
Hagar
> To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar"
<hagargs@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Kevin:
>
> I just finished my fuel system prior to putting the top on. To mount
the
> fuel pump I took a piece of .090 aluminum sheet about 2"X4". Put a
nutplate
> in it for the hose clamp that comes with the pumps. I spaced it off of
the
> bottom of the fuselage floor with a couple of small pieces of foam to
give
> the screw clearance and filled and bonded the remaining space with
some
> redux and flox. I mounted one pump like that the other pumps clamp
was
> bolted through one of the plywood bulkheads for the baggage bay. That
way
> the pumps are spaced apart far enough apart to put a t between them
and
not
> have a tight bend radius bewteen the hoses. Both pumps are still
visible
> when I remove the left baggage access panel.
>
> I stayed away from using barbs on the pressurized side of the fuel
system
> (other than the barb on the pump's outlets) I used Aeroquip 303 hose
and
> the 491 flared hose fittings. You need a hacksaw to cut this stuff,
whereas
> you can clip the Europa supplied stainless braided hose with a set of
dykes!
>
> Steve Hagar
> A143
> Mesa, AZ
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Kevin Klinefelter <kevann@gte.net>
> > To: Europa-List@Matronics. Com <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: 3/1/03 12:30:24 PM
> > Subject: Europa-List: Mounting fuel pumps
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
<kevann@gte.net>
> >
> > Hi all, does anyone have good way of mounting the 914 fuel pumps to
the
> > floor behind the baggage bay?
> > Also, I have the Andair mini gascolator and fitted a 1/2" hose barb
to
> the
> > outlet. The next connector will be a tee of 1/2" barbs to split off
to
> the 2
> > fuel pumps. This eliminates the need for the 2 J1006 reducers. I
found a
> > nylon tee fitting that will work, but I'd rather get a metal one
like
the
> > WTP002 provided in the kit. Anyone know where to get a 1/2" hose
barb
Tee
> > fitting that is not plastic? I'm trying to reduce the number of
> connections
> > as much as possible.
> >
> >
>
>
> --- Steve Hagar
> --- hagargs@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
--- Steve Hagar
--- hagargs@earthlink.net
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