Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:50 AM - Re: Layups Peel Off! (Fred Fillinger)
2. 09:39 AM - Re: Layups Peel Off! (Fergus Kyle)
3. 10:42 AM - Re: Fuel filler (tom)
4. 10:55 AM - Re: Fuel filler (Peter Zutrauen)
5. 12:04 PM - Re: Fuel filler (Andy Draper)
6. 03:32 PM - Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. (James Nelson)
7. 04:55 PM - Aileron alignment (John & Amy Eckel)
8. 07:36 PM - Fuel filler (Fergus Kyle)
9. 11:02 PM - Re: Fuel filler (Bruce Ludeman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Layups Peel Off! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger <fillinger@ameritech.net>
All sounds reasonable, but I'm sure you meant MEK; methylene chloride
(paint stripper) is one of few common chemicals which will destroy epoxy
resin!
#36-40 grit sandpaper can easier slice up the glass cloth, reducing
strength. Also, I once tested grit vs. adhesion on 1/2" test strips,
and #400 grit seemed to result in stronger bond than #50-grit abrasion,
requiring more force to debond it. I couldn't measure that exactly, but
viewed under magnification the #400 test strip resulted in greater
damage to the glass fibers of the other surface.
Regards,
Fred F.
N3EU
> His method.....
> 1) Check the temperature of the surface of the lay-up area. Get above 70'F.
> 2) Wipe down the area of the lay-up with acetone or Methylene Chloride to
> remove any grease, oils, or mold release. Then don't touch that area without
> gloves!
> 3) Use 36 or 40 grit sandpaper to really scratch up the surface for bonding.
> 4) "IMPORTANT PART!" Lightly brush the area with your resin mix.
> 5) Then apply the lay-up. Either by laying down the glass on the area and
> wetting in place or wet out the lay-up on plastic sheet and apply all at
> once.
> 6) Keep the temp up for at least four hours.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Layups Peel Off! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Fillinger" <fillinger@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Layups Peel Off!
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Fillinger
<fillinger@ameritech.net>
>
> All sounds reasonable, but I'm sure you meant MEK; methylene chloride
> (paint stripper) is one of few common chemicals which will destroy epoxy
> resin!
>
> #36-40 grit sandpaper can easier slice up the glass cloth, reducing
> strength. Also, I once tested grit vs. adhesion on 1/2" test strips,
> and #400 grit seemed to result in stronger bond than #50-grit abrasion,
> requiring more force to debond it. I couldn't measure that exactly, but
> viewed under magnification the #400 test strip resulted in greater
> damage to the glass fibers of the other surface.
>
> Regards,
> Fred F.
> N3EU
>
> > His method.....
> > 1) Check the temperature of the surface of the lay-up area. Get above
70'F.
> > 2) Wipe down the area of the lay-up with acetone or Methylene Chloride
to
> > remove any grease, oils, or mold release. Then don't touch that area
without
> > gloves!
> > 3) Use 36 or 40 grit sandpaper to really scratch up the surface for
bonding.
> > 4) "IMPORTANT PART!" Lightly brush the area with your resin mix.
> > 5) Then apply the lay-up. Either by laying down the glass on the area
and
> > wetting in place or wet out the lay-up on plastic sheet and apply all at
> > once.
> > 6) Keep the temp up for at least four hours.
Cheers,
I seem to remember Boeing coming out with the caveat that if,
when you have roughened the surface, you can get water to 'sheet' on it, it
is ready to accept epoxy efficiently. I have kept this in mind, roughend
with 200-400, first coated very lightly with epoxy pure and allowed it to
'spread' like the water (mere glisten), then attacked with whatever layers.
My test samples cannot be delaminated, so am content. But I'm no expert so
correct me.....
Ferg
A064
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
Andy
Thank you for your note. I put the top on and placed the fuel filler in
place, my polyurethane tubing seems to fit easily! Dale Hetrick has
installed his and says it is not a problem. Perhaps the tubing that you
tried was stiffer?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
<andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>
> Tom,
>
> I did receive the sample, thanks, and found difficulty sealing the joints
due to the hoop rigidity of the material. Perhaps most people would be
happier with a welded aluminium tube?
> I have to say that I've spent an inordinate amount of time looking at a
satisfactory replacement for the XFS07 rubber filler hose elbow and not
suceeded so far.
> Regards
> Andy
>
> >>> "tom" <beecho@fix.net> 03/02/03 11:06pm >>>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Karl
> I just looked up polyurethane tubing on google and called one of the
> manufacturers. They only sold in hundreds of feet but were happy to send
me
> a sample for nothing. I told Andy where I got it and of my tests. I
don't
> know if he followed up. It has a slight curve and is flexible so I think
it
> will fit fine.
>
> Tim
> I would suggest you do as I did and test the factory supplied rubber tube.
> Plug both ends with auto gas inside. It shortly smelled so bad that I had
> to get it out of the garage.
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > That tubing seems perfect, but can you let the rest of us know
> > where you bought it and for how much ? Is it angled like the
> > rubber tube ?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> > >From: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:54:45 -0800
> > >
> > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >
> > >Hi Kevin
> > >
> > >Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see the
> fuel
> > >level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the net
and
> > >asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested it
with
> > >pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
> > >
> > >Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> > >To: "Europa-List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
> <kevann@gte.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked
> > >about.
> > >A
> > > > popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a
> welded
> > > > aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for
sale
> > >to
> > > > other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum.
> mod.,
> > >are
> > > > you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a
> > >better
> > > > hose type available?
> > > > Thanks, Kevin A211
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
> >
> >
>
>
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
Hi Tom,
would you be able to email/post any pics of your solution?
Cheers & thanks,
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: tom [mailto:beecho@fix.net]
Sent: Wed 3/5/2003 1:41 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Cc:
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
Andy
Thank you for your note. I put the top on and placed the fuel filler in
place, my polyurethane tubing seems to fit easily! Dale Hetrick has
installed his and says it is not a problem. Perhaps the tubing that you
tried was stiffer?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
>
> Tom,
>
> I did receive the sample, thanks, and found difficulty sealing the joints
due to the hoop rigidity of the material. Perhaps most people would be
happier with a welded aluminium tube?
> I have to say that I've spent an inordinate amount of time looking at
a
satisfactory replacement for the XFS07 rubber filler hose elbow and not
suceeded so far.
> Regards
> Andy
>
> >>> "tom" <beecho@fix.net> 03/02/03 11:06pm >>>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Karl
> I just looked up polyurethane tubing on google and called one of the
> manufacturers. They only sold in hundreds of feet but were happy to
send
me
> a sample for nothing. I told Andy where I got it and of my tests. I
don't
> know if he followed up. It has a slight curve and is flexible so I think
it
> will fit fine.
>
> Tim
> I would suggest you do as I did and test the factory supplied rubber
tube.
> Plug both ends with auto gas inside. It shortly smelled so bad that
I had
> to get it out of the garage.
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > That tubing seems perfect, but can you let the rest of us know
> > where you bought it and for how much ? Is it angled like the
> > rubber tube ?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> > >From: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:54:45 -0800
> > >
> > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >
> > >Hi Kevin
> > >
> > >Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see
the
> fuel
> > >level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the
net
and
> > >asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested
it
with
> > >pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
> > >
> > >Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> > >To: "Europa-List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
> <kevann@gte.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked
> > >about.
> > >A
> > > > popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for
a
> welded
> > > > aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for
sale
> > >to
> > > > other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum.
> mod.,
> > >are
> > > > you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there
a
> > >better
> > > > hose type available?
> > > > Thanks, Kevin A211
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Tom,
John got me the sample if I recall and I assumed that it was the same that you
had used. Perhaps not. Could you give me the details once again please. I'll
have another go.
Best Regards
Andy
>>> "tom" <beecho@fix.net> 03/05/03 06:41pm >>>
--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
Andy
Thank you for your note. I put the top on and placed the fuel filler in
place, my polyurethane tubing seems to fit easily! Dale Hetrick has
installed his and says it is not a problem. Perhaps the tubing that you
tried was stiffer?
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
<andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>
> Tom,
>
> I did receive the sample, thanks, and found difficulty sealing the joints
due to the hoop rigidity of the material. Perhaps most people would be
happier with a welded aluminium tube?
> I have to say that I've spent an inordinate amount of time looking at a
satisfactory replacement for the XFS07 rubber filler hose elbow and not
suceeded so far.
> Regards
> Andy
>
> >>> "tom" <beecho@fix.net> 03/02/03 11:06pm >>>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Karl
> I just looked up polyurethane tubing on google and called one of the
> manufacturers. They only sold in hundreds of feet but were happy to send
me
> a sample for nothing. I told Andy where I got it and of my tests. I
don't
> know if he followed up. It has a slight curve and is flexible so I think
it
> will fit fine.
>
> Tim
> I would suggest you do as I did and test the factory supplied rubber tube.
> Plug both ends with auto gas inside. It shortly smelled so bad that I had
> to get it out of the garage.
>
> Tom
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > That tubing seems perfect, but can you let the rest of us know
> > where you bought it and for how much ? Is it angled like the
> > rubber tube ?
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >
> > >From: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > >To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:54:45 -0800
> > >
> > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "tom" <beecho@fix.net>
> > >
> > >Hi Kevin
> > >
> > >Polyurethane tubing is fuel proof and flexible. You can also see the
> fuel
> > >level when it fills! I got mine by finding a manufacturer on the net
and
> > >asking for a sample. I have not installed it yet but have tested it
with
> > >pressure and fuel inside for a month. No smell and no discoloring.
> > >
> > >Tom (Still looking for a mono trailer in the Western US.)
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
> > >To: "Europa-List" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > >Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter"
> <kevann@gte.net>
> > > >
> > > > Hello all, I've seen lots of fuel filler hose smell problems talked
> > >about.
> > >A
> > > > popular mod seems to be exchanging the supplied rubber hose for a
> welded
> > > > aluminum section. Is anyone offering the alum. welded section for
sale
> > >to
> > > > other builders? Also, the rubber hose needed to connect the alum.
> mod.,
> > >are
> > > > you using the supplied hose cutting two short pieces or is there a
> > >better
> > > > hose type available?
> > > > Thanks, Kevin A211
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Overloaded with spam? With MSN 8, you can filter it out
> >
> >
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Door Gas Strut Mod. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
Dale,
The mod works for me. It seems that there is a mod that utilizes
some type lever arrangement that uses the lift cyl. Haven't seen it but
it might be very good. My mod is from a change that was on the Europa
net several years back. Simple and effective. It will stop the lifting
of the door at the rear. Attached are several pix of my door mod. If
you have any questions, let me know.
Jim Nelson
N15JN
On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:07:54 -0800 Dale Hetrick <gdale2@juno.com> writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Dale Hetrick <gdale2@juno.com>
>
> Jim,
> I would greatly appreciate some pictures of your Mod. Sounds like
> a
> great idea.
> Thanks
> Dale
> #140/J3300 tri-gear
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Aileron alignment |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Amy Eckel <eckel1@comcast.net>
I am in the process of attaching my port aileron to an XS wing.
I noticed that the upper surface of the aileron is 5/16 inch lower than
where it should match the wing tip. At the flap end it is 1/4 inch
lower.
I called SteveD to ask how his ailerons fit. They are okay, but we
discovered that his are 2 inches thick at the outboard end and mine
are 1 3/4 inches. Therein lies the problem.
I received my Stage one kit in Oct 2001. I would suggest that If you
haven't started your aileron lay-ups you check the thickness of the
foam cores before you start.
Hope this saves someone some work.
John Eckel
A230
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
I see where polyurethane plastic was mentioned as fuel line, and
wondered what its resistance to diesel/turbo/petrol fuels was, and whether
it has high resistance or if spares should be made for the title fuel line -
somewhere in the 2 inch diameter range.
I have a welder making up top and bottom fittings for the fuel
filler with perhaps a polyurethane line joining them. Any details gratefully
received.
20cm snow last night. At least the temp is rising to minus 5
tmoro.
Ferg
A064
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce Ludeman" <bruce@justbruce.com>
Off list
Ferg,
And I was feeling deprived when our highs this week dropped
from the 22C range to around 12C.
Can you give us a clue sometime as to what the aluminum
tubing and welding costs were and the specs on the aluminum
tubing?
Bruce
A142
Tracy, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fergus Kyle
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel filler
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle"
<VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hello,
I see where polyurethane plastic was mentioned
as fuel line, and
wondered what its resistance to diesel/turbo/petrol fuels
was, and whether
it has high resistance or if spares should be made for the
title fuel line -
somewhere in the 2 inch diameter range.
I have a welder making up top and bottom
fittings for the fuel
filler with perhaps a polyurethane line joining them. Any
details gratefully
received.
20cm snow last night. At least the temp is
rising to minus 5
tmoro.
Ferg
A064
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